Guest Sil Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 We had members of the Muslim and Jewish religion come to speak to our class about region and medicine today. Both of them said that a vaccine containing pork products was not a deterrant to getting the vaccine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest walton1 Posted April 10, 2003 Report Share Posted April 10, 2003 Hi Sil, I don't agree with your point about vegans. I agree to the extent that if the patient doesn't bring it up, you're right, few would care and why bother. But if a doctor knew that his or her patient was a practicing vegan, I think it's the doctor's duty to mention the animal products involved in the therapy and let the patient decide. As much as there are examples of people coming up with unusual reasons to "go against the grain," there are examples of doctors not really seeming to care about their patients' feelings as much as they do about their patients' physical health. One issue I've been thinking about recently is the controversy over the silzone heart valves that were made by St. Jude Medical and have been recalled. The woman who is leading a class-action suit against SJM was treated pretty poorly by her surgeons. They actually removed her defective, leaking silzone valve, and just to be cute, replaced it with another silzone valve of the same make and model, which also failed. They didn't tell her they were just swapping valves of the same brand, and she thought she was getting a completely different valve. Although at the time they put in her 2nd valve, the recall had not yet been issued, if she had been told she was receiving the same valve as before, she would have demanded another valve. She just *assumed* that because the original valve didn't work, they would replace it with a different model. I guess my overall point is, at the time they put in the 2nd valve, there was no medical reason not to use that particular choice of valve, but the choice should have been discussed with the patient before opening her up and putting it in. There was a story about this on CBC radio a few weeks ago. I think it was on "The Current." As for religious leaders speaking for their followers, I agree that their views are a good guide, but they aren't the last word. For example, I'm Catholic, but I also, for example, believe in forms of contraception other than abstinence, I support gay marriage and I feel that a woman has the right to choose abortion. I imagine most RC priests would disagree with all three. wally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanttobedoc Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 last one I'll bring up from the depths tonight....but, I've been thinking about this a lot too. I have never questioned the benefits of vaccination and did it automatically, according to schedule for both of my children. Perhaps it is because I grew up in a "medical" family and vaccination and other evidenced based treatments were the norm. It seems though that an increasing number of my friends are picking and choosing the vaccinations they want for their kids and even changing the scheduling of the shots. My family has travelled a lot and I think it is important that we are vaccinated b/c we expose ourselves to more people and geographical areas. We lived in Taiwan for 2 years and one of my kids is even vaccinated for rabies....japanese enceph...etc... Globalization has put everyone at "risk" of many diseases...and in North America many of these diseases are not seen as much anymore, but isn't that b/c we've mostly all been vaccinated for things like measles, etc....? and the people who choose not to vaccinate, they are not only putting themselves at risk but also others (with weak/compromised immune systems) at risk? Any thoughts to revive this debate...for learning purposes/before interviews appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 I've read many a "shocker" article about "chicken pox parties," where mothers from the neighborhood take their kids to the sick kid's home so that they catch chicken pox from the sick child, to avoid vaccination. I was never aware of a vaccine from chicken pox until I moved to the US....they just don't really do it in Russia. I assume it's available for pediatricians and other doctors who are frequently exposed to children's diseases, but it's not something widespread among the general public. Anyway, my chicken pox experience at age 16 almost trumped 3 months in a GI hospital at age 9 in terms of suffering/distress, and the prospect of complications was quite real at the time given my age. It was also psychologically damaging because I expected to be disfigured for the rest of my life (I had it really bad on my face and scalp). I emerged relatively unscathed in terms of scarring, but there's absolutely no question that I'd be vaccinating my children (if I ever have any) against chicken pox, as well as other diseases.....think rubella - it's also not too bad when you're a child, but it can be quite dangerous for an adult, and we all know how much damage it can do in a pregnant female. I DO believe that vaccines may indeed have complications; but I find it hard to believe that these side effects would be worse than with the actual full-blown illness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eise Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 I've read many a "shocker" article about "chicken pox parties," where mothers from the neighborhood take their kids to the sick kid's home so that they catch chicken pox from the sick child, to avoid vaccination. I was never aware of a vaccine from chicken pox until I moved to the US....they just don't really do it in Russia. I assume it's available for pediatricians and other doctors who are frequently exposed to children's diseases, but it's not something widespread among the general public. Anyway, my chicken pox experience at age 16 almost trumped 3 months in a GI hospital at age 9 in terms of suffering/distress, and the prospect of complications was quite real at the time given my age. It was also psychologically damaging because I expected to be disfigured for the rest of my life (I had it really bad on my face and scalp). I emerged relatively unscathed in terms of scarring, but there's absolutely no question that I'd be vaccinating my children (if I ever have any) against chicken pox, as well as other diseases.....think rubella - it's also not too bad when you're a child, but it can be quite dangerous for an adult, and we all know how much damage it can do in a pregnant female. I DO believe that vaccines may indeed have complications; but I find it hard to believe that these side effects would be worse than with the actual full-blown illness. Jochi, I'm not certain of this, but I don't think children get vaccinated against chicken pox in Canada (at least I don't think I was). But a lot of parents did (and still do) have these 'chicken pox parties'. However, I don't believe they were to avoid vaccination. These parties were an attempt for your child to get the chicken pox at a younger age, since as you mentioned, it is much milder when you are younger. I know that when my brother had the chicken pox, I spent days with him so I could get it too. It was also easier for my mom to have all 3 of us kids have chicken pox at the same time. and it was fun for us too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanttobedoc Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Jochi, I'm not certain of this, but I don't think children get vaccinated against chicken pox in Canada (at least I don't think I was). But a lot of parents did (and still do) have these 'chicken pox parties'. However, I don't believe they were to avoid vaccination. These parties were an attempt for your child to get the chicken pox at a younger age, since as you mentioned, it is much milder when you are younger. I know that when my brother had the chicken pox, I spent days with him so I could get it too. It was also easier for my mom to have all 3 of us kids have chicken pox at the same time. and it was fun for us too! Eise, My kids were born in 2002 and 2004 in Canada, and they have both been vaccinated for chickenpox. It is a relatively new thing...and it does not exactly guarantee your immunity. So, I know some moms who do the "chicken pox" party while the kids are young b/c it is much milder as you stated....and hopefully you will be immune to it when you are older. Some moms feel there is more of a guarantee of immunity for their kids this way versus the new vaccination. I don't even think that if you get a mild case of chicken pox when you are young, it does not necessarily gurantee your immunity when you are older either....but, anyone can correct me if I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmyMax Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Hey, There is now a chicken pox vaccine available, named 'Varivax', which you can get for your kids, but sadly is not 100% effective. It's funny how this generation of children will/may grow up having never had chicken pox before, whereas pretty much everyone in my medical school class had had chicken pox as a child and it was really no big deal, barring complications. That said, you can also consider the generation before ours who pretty much all had the measles and mumps, and never thought all that much of having those conditions, let along vaccinating against them, well maybe not the mumps. Anyway, I always thought it kind of funny because almost invariably, on their paeds rotation, someone will actually acquire one of these "child-borne" infections. It's usually gastroenteritis, which is no picnic for 12 hours or so, but it always seems that at least one person in each medical class at Western comes down with chicken pox during their paeds rotation. Just thought that I'd share. Vaccinate your kids (and yourself)- it's all fun and games until someone gets the German measles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernDude Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 Just to add another thought into the mix: A lot of the vaccinations that are being debated here are for diseases that are no longer prominant in Western countries. How would this issue change if there was a vaccine for HIV/AIDS or a couple of years ago if there was one for SARS? People are often willing to take a stand provided there is no risk to them by refusing treatment. I for one will recommend vaccination to my patients as the best way to avoid certain diseases. There was a study in Japan years ago where they stopped administering the MMR vaccine due to concerns about meningitis. During this period where children were NOT vaccinated, the number of new cases of autism continued to grow, following the trend that existed when the vaccine was given. Although it doesn't rule out the autism connection, it does rule out a large-scale effect. Eventually based on this, they brought the vaccine back in. http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7076 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechong Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 To add to the discussion, just read an article about the Public Health Board in Waterloo, Ont. and their enforcement of the Immunization of School Pupil's Act - kids face suspension from school if not vaccinated against a host of diseases including tetanus, diphtheria, polio and MMR unless there is written exemption from being vaccinated. Also, I work with an autistic child and one of the behavioural therapists on my team refuses to give any of children any type of vaccination. She has one child with autism and the risk of triggering autism in the rest of her 3 children is enough to avoid vaccinations altogether. I understand the challenge and difficulties involved in raising an autistic child but the thing that frustrates me the most is that she takes her 4 children (ages 2 - 10) to Costa Rica every summer without any protection from Hep A, Tetanus etc. Since the majority of Canadians are vaccinated against a host of diseases, the small % of individuals who aren't vaccinated are somewhat protected however it's when they go abroad to countries, where vaccination programs are not as complete, is where they're putting themselves at risk. I find it unfortunate that these kids are at risk of getting a debilitating disease when it could be easily prevented/avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echo25 Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 I've found that most health care professionals present a very one-sided view of vaccines - I was told the whole autism concern is silly by my profs, but they never could explain why when I asked. Although I agree with some vaccines, others I'm a little apprehensive about. For example, the CDC website shows that we don't know how long immunity to chicken pox will last if you get the vaccine. So that leaves the potential for a generation of kids to get vaccinated, forget about it, and then get the disease 40 years later when it's way more dangerous. I'm not entirely convinced it's a good thing for little kids just yet - but definetly for older people who've never had it! http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vaccine/varicella/faqs-clinic-vaccine.htm#4-waning So I'm a little undecided on the subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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