Mock 3: You have a copy of the exam. What do you do?

[Guest Namgalsip]

Just want to get some opinions on this:

 

One of your fellow classmates has managed to get a hold of your up-coming exam. What do you do? (do you use the test, tell on the student, ignore it?) Of course, you can assume that talking directly with the student is unsuccessful.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited the subject heading to standardize them. -Ian

[Guest UOMeds05]

good question.... expect if not this one, something like if for U of O.

[Guest Biochem10]

Without divulging the identity of the student who has a copy of the exam, I would go speak to the coordinator of the course and tell them that I have heard that a copy of the exam is floating around. I would suggest to the coordinator that he/she change the exam. This way I'm not telling on the student, but I am stopping the student from being able to cheat. Should the coordinator wish to find out who has the exam, they can try to investigate on their own.

[Guest Koggetsu]

good answer, I think thats what ideally should be done.

[Guest bcdentalgirl]

What if the fellow student in question was a good friend of yours and you are the only person s/he has told (ie. s/he will know who to blame if the word gets out).

[Guest sally2001]

biochem10,

that's a pretty good answer, but what if (pretend i'm interviewing you) i say 'what if the co-ordinator asks you to substantiate your allegation because it's not worth his/her time to change an exam on what seems like hearsay (from their perspective)'. how would you validate your claim?

the reason i'm asking, is that this situation actually happened to me, albeit in oac (high school) so the stakes weren't that high. i went to the guidance counsellor who took my claim seriously but demanded to know the name of said individual to investigate. i was promised anonymity, so i obliged. plus, i'd feel very silly (like i was lying) if i refused to divulge details.

[Guest Koggetsu]

So what happened to your friend after u told on them? did he/she find out it was u?

 

So what would happen if i said to the interviewer, that i couldn't and wouldn't divulge my friend's identity and that i did my duty to inform them of teh situation adn whether theybeleived it or not was up to them?

Would i then be dropped to the bottom of the pile of applicants because of this?

 

I guess i'm asking will this be considered a major moral/character flaw to be a doctor in the interviewer's eye?

[Guest Ian Wong]

Heya,

 

The first piece of advice I give to people on their way to an interview is to: Be yourself!

 

Do NOT start second-guessing yourself by trying to find the answer that you think the interviewer wants to hear. They are trying to find out what your thinking process and your reasoning is like.

 

True story. I heard from one of my good friends, now in dental school at UBC, that one of his friends applied to a Canadian dental school, got that exact question, and answered: "To be honest, I wouldn't turn my friend in." He was accepted. I guess they valued his honesty, his sense of loyalty, etc. Truth be told, that probably took some guts to say that, but if that's what you would ACTUALLY do in a similar situation, then surely there are reasons why, and you should use those reasons to explain your approach to this problem to the interviewer. If you would actually turn the person in, then explain your reasons for doing that instead. That's what they're really looking for after all.

 

Ian

UBC, Med 4

[Guest me maniac]

OK. I agree with Ian. But what would happen if they told you that your freind volunteered to share the exam with you? Would you use it to cheat on the exam? If we're being honest here, I don't think too many people would turn down the chance to simply glance at the exam, but ethically, you should say no, I'd rather take my chances that I know my stuff.

 

me

[Guest MayFlower1]

This is a tough one.

 

I truly value relationships and I think it's important to support your friends and classmates, however, cheating is just plain wrong...it's unethical. I'm personally not comfortable with the thought of someone who cheats becoming a physician. If they are unethical in this situation what other situations might they not behave ethically in? Would they cheat the ministry of health? Would they not take ownership of a mistake they made which affected a patient? Would they cheat again and potentially not know the material required to effectively treat patients?

 

I would absolutely not look at the exam. Personally, I would feel guilty forever if I were ever to cheat. Also, the opportunity to experience that amazing feeling of accomplishment after aceing an exam would be lost if one cheated.

 

Although you indicate that talking to your classmate was not effective, nevertheless, I would try to convince this individual that getting caught cheating would obviously have terrible consequences (i.e., getting thrown own of med school). I would ask them why they thought they needed to cheat. I would attempt to convince them that they have the knowledge to pass the exam without cheating and that, if they required it, I would help them prepare for the exam in whatever way I could.

 

If, as you say, talking wasn't effective...I would go to the prof who was holding the exam and indicate that I have knowledge of someone who has the current exam. I would ask that I not be required to divulge their name(s), however, if pressed I would feel obliged to do so. Supporting your classmates and friends is ultimately important...but supporting ethical and appropriate behaviours as a future physician is even more important in my opinion.

 

Peter

[Guest Ian Wong]

Well, at that stage, I think you need to make that tough decision. Deep down, I think everyone here has the same intuitive idea that using this test is the morally and ethically wrong choice. Given the choice, I think most people would opt for the "safe" answer such as the one given by Biochem, which would be to inform the higher-ups that there is a copy of the exam in circulation.

 

This way, you negate the fact that someone out there is about to have an unfair advantage on an exam, and everyone writes the exam on a level playing field.

 

Integrity is what you do when no one else is watching.

 

Ian

UBC, Med 4

[Guest sally2001]

koggetsu,

well at the time (over 7 yrs ago) i was younger (16 yrs) and believed that it was grossly unfair for any individual to have an unfair advantage over the others. i still believe it, but have come to realize that sometimes, life just isn't fair :\

 

it wasn't a friend, it was a classmate (like the original poster said) and i was told by a friend of mine who the classmate tried to sell the test to, no joke. she refused to rat on the guy, but told me and basically, i told the guidance counsellor. i hesistated to reveal the identity but he basically told me that they couldn't really investigate if they didn't have an idea who it was and how he/she got hold of the exam.

 

so they talked to the individual, who had grades in the 50% range so he/she wasn't a bright one to begin with.

the one that lost out the most was the teacher, who had to do some serious correlation statistics between teh class before and after the exam to see if any students really did have an unfair advantage. turns out it wasn't major, but the event set a precedent (so to speak).

 

after being in university for so long now, i've seen far worse. i don't have a problem with studying from old exams to practice skills, but i've heard of (third hand) ppl stealing exams from profs offices, hacking into profs computer accounts and the list goes on. i would not interfere in those situations but things like that do happen, sadly enough.

 

to answer your other question, the individual obviously blamed my friend who honestly said it wasn't her. the counsellor kept his word and did not reveal who i was, as far as i know.

[Guest Koggetsu]

Given your experience then how would you answer this question now?

 

BTW: yeah ihave known of a lot of people cheating in university too, but hey thats the way society is going now so,

[Guest sally2001]

koggetsu,

obviously there would be a lot of factors. in the context of my current program, engineering, i would probably ignore it. if joe engineering was about to cheat on the upcoming digital circuits exam, i think he would pay the price of his incompetence by not learning the material and would suffer when it came time to apply it in real life. so that wouldn't bother me to the extent of telling the administration about it.

However, i personally would be extremely ill at ease to think that my physician had done something like that in med school and would not only make me doubt his/her competence, but also their moral values. if it was a classmate, i would tell, but request to be anonymous. if it was a friend, i'd be very disturbed about why he/she would feel the need to do that, since the exam would but test you on a small percent of your knowledge and if you only study the contents of that exam, how much info are you blowing by? i'd offer help in whatever way i could, but would explain that ultimately he/she would be a doing a disservice to themselves as well as to their future patients. if all else failed, i would tell on them and risk the friendship and hope they understand that i'd be looking for their (long-term) best interest. but it would be no easy decision.

 

i don't think there's any one right answer, i just think if you think it through and are prepared to defend yourself if probed than you'll be good to go. good luck.

[Guest mtws]

I was asked this one by the med student at my UofO interview last year. I basically said that I would tell the individual to go to the course coordinator and turn himself in and that if he didn't, I would have to tattle on him. But then I muttered under my breath "but I'd hope it wouldn't come to that." And the med student said "Excuse me?" and I repeaded myself a little louder and he then said, "Why? Why would that be a problem for you?" And I said "Because something like that could obviously strain our relationship", and then I blushed realizing that that could be the wrong answer and so I followed up with "but I would certainly make sure that someone informed the coordinator."

 

But that's not true. That's not what I'd do. And I didn't get in to med school! I was too busy trying to give the 'right' answer, and not bothering to give MY answer, which would probably include some of this story:

 

When I was in undergrad there was a whole ton of cheating going on all around me and I felt left out of the loop a lot because I couldn't get the benefit of all those easy marks. Then one day I watched a friend of mine (with balls the size of coconuts) actually open his inorganic text on his lap during a midterm. I couldn't friggin believe it, with all those moderators walking around! Afterwards I laughed with him about it. That guy got into med school (with all his straight A's), and a few years later he realized how much he hated medicine, hated being there, hated all the actual hard work, and studying, and stress. And then he killed himself. I'm not saying he killed himself only because of his situation - he was probably a little unstable to begin with, and the fact that his father was pushing him to be a Doctor his whole life might have had something to do with his unhappiness too - But I really do believe that cheaters never prosper.

 

But hopefully I'll leave out the 'balls' and the 'friggin'!

Cheers,

Matt

[Guest Koggetsu]

mtws: How would you answer it now then?? So you would answer that you wouldn't have said anything?

[Guest mtws]

Ya, that didn't really answer the question did it! (Why can't I edit my posts anymore?)

 

Anyway, my answer would probably resemble BIOCHEM10's up above there, but I would definately tell some or all of that story.