Guest skiboot Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Hi, I've recently returned to school to complete the necessary prereqs for med school and was wondering about the benefits of 3 yr programs (other than being one yr shorter). I know UofC has a 3 yr program and have also heard that Mcmaster's program is 3 yrs also. Are there any other locations with 3 yr programs? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 No, those are the only programs that I know of. There's a lot of debate out there about the merits and disadvantages of 3 year programs. On the one hand, you get one more year of practice and one less year of debt accumulation. That's pretty huge. On the other hand, you don't get (as much of) your summers off, there ARE people (med students, residents, full fledged doctors) biased against the 3 year programs because they're shorter, and I think the most important thing you've got to ask yourself is. . . 'will I feel comfortable managing an SVT alone as a resident on only 3 years education'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cracked30 Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 It only takes a day to learn that stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cheech10 Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Seriously UWOMED2005, usually I respect your opinion, but this one is a bit ridiculous. They get just as much time on the wards as we do at the 3 year schools, and as everyone says, clerkship is where you learn all about patient management. The disadvantages of a 3 year program are: a slightly smaller fact base, particularly on the minutiae typically tested in pre-clerkship, and a decreased opportunity to make important contacts during med school. There might be a LITTLE bias out there on some people's behalfs, but everything I've heard puts residents from Mac (I know less about Calgary) on an equal footing with residents that graduated from other institutions, and they fare just as well as other schools in CaRMS.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mydream88 Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 what does SVT stand for? mydream88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cheech10 Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Supraventricular tachycardia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mydream88 Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 thanks mydream88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aneliz Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 I have to agree with cheech...Mac students have almost as much 'pre-clerkship' time as we do...seeing as they go straight through the summer while we are off. They have just as much time in clerkship and they also have some dedicated clinical elective time BEFORE clerkship....so they actually end up with more hands on clinical time as part of their curriculum (rather than part of their summer electives...) than we do before clerkship starts. I would say that the only disadvantage from my perspective (a UWO student) is that they have one less year to think about things before going through CaRMS....on the plus side, that is one less year of tuition to pay and many hours less lecture to sit through. Sounds like a bonus to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 I think that extra year to sort out your interests can be pretty valuable. You also have those extra summers to conduct research, do additional shadowing, and most importantly, get out and do some non-medical stuff! This is just one man's opinion, but as someone who did do four years of med school prior to graduating, I'm dead certain that I would not want to do it in three. It wouldn't have worked for me, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't work for you. Depending on your priorities, a three year program might be right up your alley. Mac, and I believe Calgary as well can also provide you a fourth enrichment year under the right circumstances. Still, like some of the above posters, I have heard negative comments about 3 year programs from several attendings, just because there may be less time to consolidate all your knowledge. On the other hand, that's one less year of debt and one more year of a physician's salary. In the end, turning out as a good doctor has at least as much to do with the individual as it does the medical school. Go with what fits you best. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jmh2005 Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Well, I would have to agree with what has been said above! There is little to zero time off which is why the decreased duration. For me, this is fine...I was used to barely 3 weeks off in a full calendar year, so this was not a massive adjustment, however, I have never worked so hard in my life as I have in the past 4 semesters!! We started clerkship on Monday...It's been fun! I would also agree that some of the pre-clerkship minutia I may have missed out on (not that I'm upset about that in the least!), ie. some of the purely academic biochemistry or physiology, simply for time (and interest sake!)...but for me, as a future clinician I don't feel disadvantaged in the least! If anything, I feel this program has allowed me to focus on what is really important to know, which will carry me through clerkship and residency. If you look at how Mac grads have faired in CaRMS over the past few years, i'm sure any worries you have will be laid to rest as we have matched to some of the most competitive programs in the country! We also have a Rhodes Scholar in 3rd year! If you are a younger applicant and/or totally unsure of what branch of medicine you may want to pursue, I think a 4 year program is probably best, as it does give you that extra year to decide what is right for you. But wherever you end up, I'm sure you'll be happy with your decision! Best of luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Actually Cheech, I completely agree with you. I explicitly did NOT say I was biased against the three year programs. I'm very much against such opinions and have found myself arguing with other med students and residents that any bias against the 3 year programs. . . which is, unfortunately, exactly what my point was. Maybe I should have worded things more carefully. What percentage of med students, residents and consultants hold this bias I have no clue. And yes, I myself have often brought up the argument that there are people biased against every med school. But I have seen bias against the three year programs more. . . I'd attribute this solely to fear over the one less year. And I'd also argue that the type of people I've seen make disparaging comments about McMaster and Calgary are the ones who like to leap to conclusions without seeing the whole picture.* As to the issue amount of time in preclerkship, I'd never done the math but I'm sure the time spent in the classroom in preclerkship are similar between 3 year and 4 year programs, after all, they don't get as much time off in the summer. But therein lies a disadvantage: it's almost customary now for 4 year med students to do extensive electives with their summers! I learned almost as much from my summer electives as I did in first and second year. This option is not available in 3 year programs. Anyway you cut it, Mac and Calgary med students have only 3 years (less 3-4 months of summer) of school from their initial O-week in September until graduation in May, whereas the other schools have 4 years. I did not mean to make my sound biased against the 3 year programs. I truly think the debate is one of those things where there are pluses and minuses for either system and in the end it becomes so confusing there is no right answer. I would like to repeat I am not against the 3 year programs. Some of the strongest UWO residents I've seen did their MDs at Mac and Calgary, and on the whole I've seen no overall deficit among the 3 year grads as opposed to the 4 year grads. Apologies if I offended any Mac or Calgary students with my comments. That was not the intent. * ie the kind of med student/resident/consultant who reads on a chart in emerg "Female 44 yo. Bipolar disorder. History of alcohol abuse. Marital Difficulties" and automatically assumes the person is whacko, not listen to the presenting complaint (a sore throat,) and immediately wants to book an urgent psych assessment for form 1 because the patient is "crazy" and might be suicidal. Meanwhile, the patient is type II bipolar without Hx of mania and no suicide attempts, has been stable on lithium for years, the history of alchol abuse was noted because they admitted to binge drinking a couple of times in University (often defined as >5 beers at one time. . . hey, anyone reading this have history of "alcohol abuse"? ) and yes, they had marital difficulties a couple of years ago but their marriage is stable now. No recent bouts of depression or hypomania, and no thoughts of suicide. Their only real problem was a sore throat and not knowing that going to emerg for a sore throat is inappropriate and they should have seen a family doc or walk-in clinic. Let's just hope that same resident or med student never sees chest pain, assumes a heart attack, starts thrombolytics only to see they were dealing with an aortic dissection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest strider2004 Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 I'd think the biggest disadvantage is having enough time to explore all the avenues in medicine. Going into med schooll, I thought I'd be hardcore cardiac surgery. Instead, I'm applying for internal medicine. Go figure! I changed my mind four times in pre-clerkship and three times during clerkship and secretly wish I had ANOTHER year of med school to decide what I wanted to do (this is where the old internship year would have been great). The extra minutia is sometimes helpful too. I like to be spoonfed, especially when it comes to anatomy and physiology. Questions will be asked on the wards and attendings will expect you to know the basic science since you're supposedly the one in the team who has learned it most recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cheech10 Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Sorry UWOMED2005, I probably misinterpreted the tone of your last paragraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 No problem Cheech10 - that's my fault not yours. In fact, I'm glad you brought my post back to my attention. I was in such a rush that I didn't convey the tone I meant to in that initial post. Apparently posting when you know a patient with chest pain has an ETA of 10 minutes via ambulance ain't such a hot idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.