polos12 Posted May 11, 2016 Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 Just wondering in comparison to Ottawa/Queens in status here, would Mac be clear/logical/monetary/career advantage of savings/starting residency early before starting next phase of career/life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroD Posted May 11, 2016 Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 Lots of variables in this question lol. But if someone can weigh in I'd appreciate it to. I'm leaning to Mac for several reasons ($ being one of, but not the only one). My other options are UofT, Western, and Queens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osteogeek Posted May 11, 2016 Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 I haven't done the financial comparison - I believe Mac comes out ahead, money-wise. Tuition is lower at other 4-year schools, but the cost of living in Hamilton is pretty reasonable (over somewhere like Toronto), so you'd probably save a decent amount of money by going to Mac. As far as that extra year - I don't know anyone who has taken that as a gap year to travel/establish yourself/anything else. Almost the entire class applies to CaRMS every year - I only know of one person who didn't this year, and that individual plans to have an alternate career that doesn't involve clinical work, so they're still off pursuing their goals. I don't know how it would be looked at by residency programs if you took a year after med school to travel or do non-clinical work, so I can't comment on what it would do to your chances, but it's really not common. Mac does have the option of adding an 'enrichment year' to the program, to essentially turn the program into a 4 year program (most people do either research or a master's degree during this time, along with some extra electives). I only know of one person in my class who took advantage of this option, so again, available but not common. Someone else transferred into the MD/PhD stream, so there are opportunities to change direction once you get here. As far as career advantage, we had a great year this year and matched to lots of competitive programs. That said, if you want something competitive, you really do have to work to get the experience/research/connections at a 3 year school as opposed to a 4 year school where you have longer to figure things out and make connections. We do get lots of flexible time during pre-clerkship to do electives (ranging from a half day to weeks at a time), so there's lots of time to try to figure out what you want to do early. I hope that answered your question? Feel free to clarify if not, and maybe some other Mac students will jump in to offer their perspectives too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polos12 Posted May 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 Perfectly clear, thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polos12 Posted May 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 Just to add UoT Advantage - from the premed101forums possibilities...? Work with residency admissions coms Clerkship in downtown / UHN network and commutable; Downtown culture to balance work/life/studies; UofT Culture/speciality and academically driven? Better CaRMS match rates? more research dollars? International Recog.? Top 3 of Macleans (references: premed101 forums; need to do full due diligence for above statements.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroD Posted May 11, 2016 Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 Just to add UoT Advantage - from the premed101forums Better CaRMS match rates? more research dollars? International Recog.? Coming from a PhD, I'm really interested in the research dollars part. How much of a difference it makes to the average med student? Yes, U of T has one of a kind research opportunities, and more money, but I wonder if it practically affects research-oriented students in med? It's not like we've got the time to work on really heavy duty time-intensive and technical research that requires all those resources. Anyone have experience in this department? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalischa Posted May 11, 2016 Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 The research environment differs between schools. From what I hear, U of T can be very cutthroat and competitive (not necessarily a bad thing, but keep that in mind). For the MD/PhD if you transfer from MD, U of T will take much longer to complete (about 5-7 years) than Mac or the others (3-4 years or so). For research oriented med students, I can say with confidence that there are tons of research opportunities available everywhere, but the environment in which you work can differ from more hardcore to more relaxed - you just have to decide how you work best really. In addition, some schools have more research activity going on in some departments than other schools (ex. Mac does a lot of education and medical health informatics work, Western does a lot of brain and mind research, etc.) I personally don't think research dollars affect the typical student very much, it varies so wildly between labs that it's more based on who you're working with than where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroD Posted May 11, 2016 Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 The research environment differs between schools. From what I hear, U of T can be very cutthroat and competitive (not necessarily a bad thing, but keep that in mind). For the MD/PhD if you transfer from MD, U of T will take much longer to complete (about 5-7 years) than Mac or the others (3-4 years or so). For research oriented med students, I can say with confidence that there are tons of research opportunities available everywhere, but the environment in which you work can differ from more hardcore to more relaxed - you just have to decide how you work best really. In addition, some schools have more research activity going on in some departments than other schools (ex. Mac does a lot of education and medical health informatics work, Western does a lot of brain and mind research, etc.) I personally don't think research dollars affect the typical student very much, it varies so wildly between labs that it's more based on who you're working with than where. Are you from Mac? Could we PM to discuss Mac's research? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robclem21 Posted May 11, 2016 Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 At UofT you have 2 summers off to do research if that is something you are interested in. There are a ton of money and opportunities throughout the year and during the summer for students interested. It is not as cutthroat as everyone always makes it seem. If you are interested in something, there are always ways to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroD Posted May 11, 2016 Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 Does Mac have good funding for students doing research? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurpleS Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Does Mac have good funding for students doing research? Due to the nature of the condensed schedule, it's difficult to do intense basic science work without taking the enrichment year and thus our research is more clinically orientated (quality improvement, etc.). We do have research funding for medical students, but I admit not as many as UofT. There is someone in our class who is doing an enrichment year to complete a MSc - although considering you seem to already have a PhD, this might not be of great interest haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurpleS Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Just to add UoT Advantage - from the premed101forums possibilities...? Work with residency admissions coms Clerkship in downtown / UHN network and commutable; Downtown culture to balance work/life/studies; UofT Culture/speciality and academically driven? Better CaRMS match rates? more research dollars? International Recog.? Top 3 of Macleans (references: premed101 forums; need to do full due diligence for above statements.) Something to keep in mind: As a medical student in a huge program in a huge city with a lot of residents/fellows, you are the lowest peg on a really tall totem pole. It might be difficult to get hands on practice for clinical things if there is always a resident or fellow to do it. Mac offers rotations in bigger urban centers where you see more complex cases as well as rural placements to help you really develop your clinical skills. It's a great balance of both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroD Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Something to keep in mind: As a medical student in a huge program in a huge city with a lot of residents/fellows, you are the lowest peg on a really tall totem pole. It might be difficult to get hands on practice for clinical things if there is always a resident or fellow to do it. Mac offers rotations in bigger urban centers where you see more complex cases as well as rural placements to help you really develop your clinical skills. It's a great balance of both! Is the big urban placement similar to UofT in the sense that your at the bottom of a tall totem pole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroD Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Due to the nature of the condensed schedule, it's difficult to do intense basic science work without taking the enrichment year and thus our research is more clinically orientated (quality improvement, etc.). We do have research funding for medical students, but I admit not as many as UofT. There is someone in our class who is doing an enrichment year to complete a MSc - although considering you seem to already have a PhD, this might not be of great interest haha. My thinking on this is, I've got a PhD in basic research at Mac, so I've got the connections and know how that would make basic research easier for me than the average Mac student. Does that sound reasonable to you, as someone with experience in the program? Also, do you know any details about the funding that Mac does provide for research? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Organomegaly Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Due to the nature of the condensed schedule, it's difficult to do intense basic science work without taking the enrichment year and thus our research is more clinically orientated (quality improvement, etc.). We do have research funding for medical students, but I admit not as many as UofT. There is someone in our class who is doing an enrichment year to complete a MSc - although considering you seem to already have a PhD, this might not be of great interest haha. The research isn't really just quality improvement! I think that undersells it a bit. Mac's main strength is actually in clin-epi, where it does very well renown research in the field. Look up the papers published in the PHRI. Some of them were international landmark papers of massive RCTs (i.e. the use of aspirin to ameliorate arterial thromboses with David Sacket, clopidogrel + aspirin vs just aspirin for STEMI with Salim Yusef). Mac's expertise is in evidence based medicine and some of the best authorities on it are here - i.e. Gordon Guyatt who was just induced to the canadian medical hall of fame last month for his work. I have had no trouble being involved with research that goes on here in this field. And EBM is certainly very critical research to the practice of medicine. I'm currently working on a couple papers in clin-epi surrounding my area of interest (endocrinology, specifically diabetes). It is tough to balance the time with the 3 year program but I find the atmosphere here very laid back. The clinician scientists understand what its like to train at Mac and the schedule tends to be consequently more malleable. For basic science research, U of T is certainly a better option for you though a lot of cool stem cell work happens here as well. Let me know if you have anymore questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroD Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Thanks THT! Do you (or anyone else from Mac) know if we have particular strengths in rehab/neuro rehab? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurpleS Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 My thinking on this is, I've got a PhD in basic research at Mac, so I've got the connections and know how that would make basic research easier for me than the average Mac student. Does that sound reasonable to you, as someone with experience in the program? Also, do you know any details about the funding that Mac does provide for research? If you already know someone here, then it's very reasonable! We have a lot of free time (only 12 hours of mandatory class a week) and experiments can easily be planned around our schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edict Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Just to add UoT Advantage - from the premed101forums possibilities...? Work with residency admissions coms Clerkship in downtown / UHN network and commutable; Downtown culture to balance work/life/studies; UofT Culture/speciality and academically driven? Better CaRMS match rates? more research dollars? International Recog.? Top 3 of Macleans (references: premed101 forums; need to do full due diligence for above statements.) I guess to respond to that 1. You can work with residency admissions at any university, of course if your goal is to match at your home school, then working with residency admissions coms at your home school is usually an advantage (if they like you, also keep in mind that the more they know you the more they may actually dislike you, but in general as long as you can keep yourself likeable you will have that advantage, the devil they know over the devil they don't) 2. So that definitely depends on which campus you are at, only really two of the campuses, WB and Fitz are in DT, but if you like the big city vibe its definitely the place to be 3. Again, if downtown culture is your thing, i'd argue though that you have less time to balance work/studies at UT than Mac for example due to the curriculum. Mac students usually can work out several long weekends into their schedule each year to travel or go back home if not too far (6-7 hr drive etc). 4. UofT culture is likely more specialty and academically driven, with that being said you can always always find a group of like minded people at any school. I would say Mac culture is definitely more friendly, our exams are not P/F just marked on a likert scale and their use in your medical foundation evaluations is heavily dependent on your tutor (some tutors don't use them at all while others take it into consideration if you don't participate much in tutorial) 5. CaRMS match rates are the same at every school +/- a percentage point or two each year, Mac had a 98% match rate this year and every school is consistently over 90% every year. 6. There is definitely more research dollars at UofT in total, this means you are more likely to find research in the field you are into, but at smaller universities they tend to have specialist areas where they are world leading, for Mac this is clinical epidemiology, Mac is probably the world leader right now in terms of large clinical RCTs, the population health research institute is pretty much world leading in this area. It was something that I didn't know but discovered and am now involved with. Mac basic science research is strong in stem cell research and clinically wise it mainly lies in clinical epidemiology especially in cardiology/CT surgery (big multi-national trials like CLARITY, HOPE, LAAOS III etc), thrombosis, medical education, orthopedic surgery and evidence based medicine. 7. Truth, nobody reads Macleans. Their rankings are actually so poorly done that it is really just an embarrassment to rankings themselves. Canada's university environment doesn't lend itself well to rankings based on university, more so to programs (which can be very subjective). UofT is definitely going to have more international cache just purely due to the fact that it is larger, has more research and has Toronto in its name which means people will at least have some vague familiarity. With that being said, McMaster is well known in medical circles and is highly ranked in most international rankings for what it is worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polos12 Posted May 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 Strong points and 7, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurpleS Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 Strong inclination towards MAC for saving fourth year's tuition alone = $26K => A FREE CAR Not only saving 1 year's tuition, but also adding one year of salary as a resident! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edict Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 Not only saving 1 year's tuition, but also adding one year of salary as a resident! Technically you should even be adding it to one year salary as an attending since your residency length is fixed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amichel Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 I like to think of it as adding 1 year of good health in retirement, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.