Guest Carolyn Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 I've been reading all of the responses over the last week and recognize that it is very frustrating to make try and make sense of the Mac application process. I also did not get an interview my first year applying and was pretty p-offed with the whole situation. I do not believe any school's application process is perfect. I believe there is bias in every school's application including Mac's. While I do believe that by getting 3 people involved in reading essays vs one we decrease bias, it is evident that not everyone here does. SO I'm making a suggestion. Keeping in mind that it is essential to Mac to have students who have strong team, communication and self-assessment skills, creativity as well as intelligence, If you have some constructive suggestions for change in the admissions process. I'd be happy to compile them and pass them along to the Chair of Admissions. I can't promise you any changes would actually be done but they listen quite strongly to students here for ideas and hopefully we can provide some constructive ideas as a group. Carolyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rejected app Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 Hi Carolyn, What a great idea. The two biggest suggestions I would have would be 1) instead of the "package" of 30 autobiographies being read by the same 3 reviewers (student/faculty/community member), I would think that it would be fairer for the essays to be mixed between reviews. That way the essay will not be marked against the same other 29 essays each time - it is human nature to make comparisons in that type of situation. If the essays were juggled between reviews, you may end up as one of the best, one of the worst and middle of the road, and chances are your essay would be judged more individually. Probably more of an administration nightmare, but undoubtedly a fairer appraisal overall. 2) While I understand the reasoning behind the 15 questions (and think they are very appropriate for Mac's style) it is sometimes difficult to explain an answer and give examples in the 700 character maximum (I also understand why there is a maximum). Having said that however, I think there should be at least somewhere for the applicant to provide a free form "essay" type of response that will allow him/her to explain any extenuating circumstances or to expand on something that they have said in one of the 15 answers. (obviously with some sort of maximum but one with at least more than 700 characters!) Once again, I love your suggestion and hopefully it will be a worthwhile exercise. Applicant (rejected with ranking of percentiles in the 80's - so close but yet so far!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cradlecrotch Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 One of the biggest injustices with the application process is the wide variation in essay scores from year to year despite using the same answers. Undoubtedly this is often the result a particular reviewer with an "outlying" opinion of what a good essay should be, resulting in potentially 3 wildly different scores in any given year. This good idea was suggested by someone else on another board so I will cut and paste: ---------------- What I would very much like to see out of the Mac admissions process is some kind of "check" system in the essay grading. These kind of "checks" are often used in standardized test grading. Basically, if scores of different reviewers differ very much on a particular essay, then that essay should be reevaulated. In particular, suppose for the sake of argument that 3 reviewers read an essay and each gives a score out of 10. An average of 8/10, say, is required for an interview. Whenever a single essay fulfils both: (a) Has one score of at least 8 and ( Has a gap in scores of greater than 3 it should be reevaulated. Reevaluation might be by a new team of three reviewers, by an "expert" reviewer, or some other process. Now, you might claim that the "wildly differing scores on a single essay" issue happens quite rarely. I would happen to disagree, but even moreso in this case - how hard would it be to deal with those few cases? ------------- It seems to me that this idea has legs. Please take it to the administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JD Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 You had over 80th percentile in BOTH your GPA and sketch, and they still rejected you? Wow... :eek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rejected app Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 JD - Yep! I'd love to know what the cutoff was but nobody seems to want to divulge that. Obviously all 3300 applicants weren't qualified - heard somewhere it was more like 2500 and less than 400 get interviews so my guess is that you have to make the 84th percentile - hurts like heck when you miss it by the skin of your teeth. Oh well, maybe next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TonyRobbins Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 Great initiative Carolyn,I think the roost has roused enough and its time to find some soultions I propose the following solution: There should be several teams (community member,Faculty,student) as there is now that read lets say three sets of essays rather than just one set of 30. Each team should not be aware of what the previous team has given out as marks. Then the administration should take the HIGHEST mark of all three readings. Disadvantage is that this involves more reading and coordination but in the end will greatly reduce the variability associated with just one group reading the essay.The process will also ensure that the applicant receives the highest grade out of three independent group reads leaving them happy also To summarize assemble several teams consisting of 1 faculty 1 community 1 student. Have them read a batch of 30 then hand in,give them another batch of thirty and hand in finally a last batch of 30 and hand in. The admin people will use the Best score as the applicant's score. Super Duper Juper I say Carolyn,what about you? (probably not thrilled about reading all those essays eh Thank you Carolyn for your logical approach to the problem On a side note To my surpirse I realized your other talent in a previous regarding your frollocks as a soap executive,I must say your marketing genius did give me a strong desire to try and retry many of P&G's suds in the mid nineties, but since you have left I feel empty in the persuit of the perfect soap, Hopefully the next marketing master will come in to close the gap you had jousted in your previous career. Until we meet again Farewell Tony Robbins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carolyn Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 Great ideas, keep them coming... I agree with the suggestion that the same applicants shouldn't be in the same pile in order to reduce comparison - May be a bit more work for administration but with computers it should be doable I would think... I also agree that when there is variability in the three scores, the application should be flagged and reviewed -- for some reason I thought that was already done but I'm not 100% sure. How do others feel about only taking the top score? My only concern is that would definitely decrease the range of scores and would result in not enough variability -- what about dropping the bottom score? I do think that they already have enough trouble getting people to read through 30 applications - it is very time intensive to read through them as everyone wants to go through them carefully. So I think that Tony's suggestions would be very very difficult administratively. Would the above idea of not comparing against the same 30 suffice or am I missing your point tony? As I said before, I really have little pull but do have access to the chair to make some suggestions. Keep them coming. Carolyn Tony - with regards to the soap - my position there was more like that of a clinical clerk or intern... so I only could offer so much to the soap industry... I was there in the time of Carezyme in Cheer and Tide - getting rid of all those little pills on your cotton clothes -- oh the stress and time spent on those little pills... :eek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TonyRobbins Posted March 8, 2002 Report Share Posted March 8, 2002 True, true Carolyn it would be an administrative nite mare. Perhaps simply dropping the lowest score of the 3 reviewers would be a great idea. That would eliminate the out of the ball park assessment that may disqualify someone. I guess I should not be too critical as I have received an interview for the 24 of March, however I can sympathize to those who were not so lucky. Yes, somehow the stars had lined up, the wolves had howled there sacred calls and I will now be in the presence of the McMaster gatekeepers to prove my worth. Until then, we must part Tony Robbins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gucio93 Posted March 8, 2002 Report Share Posted March 8, 2002 Congratulations on your interview TonyRobbins! Just to echo Carolyn's earlier comment; when the three assessors mark the application with great variance in their scores, or when there are two scores close together and a third one that is out in left field, the essay and all the reviewers' comments are re-assessed by someone else who is on the final ad-com committee (and who has not seen the esseys) to figure out where the discrepancy is coming from and provide an impartial opinion. So unless all three scores correspond, there is a system of checks and balances to ensure "a degree" of consistency in the marking. Everyone who marks the papers also has a training session and is given a set of guidelines based on which the essay is scored. That's not to say that personal judgment does not come into place; ofcourse different people will have different perspectives, but it's also not as "willi-nilli" as some people imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest macmed Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 It is hard enough as it is to get volunteers for admissions essays. Reading 30 is excruciating. You would never get people to read more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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