MCCEE scores

[meds2015]

Hello,

 

I'm an IMG who will be writing the MCCEE in 2 months. I was wondering what is considered as competitive scores. I haven't found any clear information on that like the USMLE Step 1. My plan is to apply for pediatrics. What would be the cut off out of 500 for this specialty or any other that any of you know of?

 

Thanks

[leviathan]

Many programs rank applicants without really looking at MCCEE but having said that you want a score >400 to have the best chances.

[meds2015]

Thanks for the reply leviathan. What do they base the ranking on then? Interview performance, I suppose. On what basis do they then invite applicants for interviews? Thanks.

[dokrbb]

Hi,

 

They actually do look at the EEMCC score; disregard all the comments telling you that the programs consider your whole file (with all respect for Leviathan).

 

Ontario programs, for example, are taking in account only the EE score as the first selection criteria (info you may find by yourself in the program description), your achievements such as work experience, electives, extracurriculars would play a role later, but not before the interview...

 

Disregard also other programs' descriptions where they are telling that exam scores are worth for such or such %, that's just a cheap PR, the only criterion programs are considering as an Objective one is the EE MCC score, which they use universally in order to generate the lists for interveiws...

 

...and yes, I sound a bit frustrated, and take this a bit personal, but nobody cares about so I wouldn't go into details,

 

cheers

[leviathan]

Thanks for the reply leviathan. What do they base the ranking on then? Interview performance, I suppose. On what basis do they then invite applicants for interviews? Thanks.

There's so many programs and specialties that you can't generalize it. It sounds like you want to know about peds and I don't know specifically about that, unfortunately. It also depends on which peds program in particular. They may or may not care about the MCCEE. That's why I just suggest to score >400 on the exam but bear in mind that if you don't get a high score, you're not necessarily out of the competition depending on how your program evaluates applicants.

 

Dokrbb, no offense but you don't know what you're talking about. Even for Ontario, only the FM programs have publicly announced that they use the MCCEE as a cutoff, which it sounds like you're now generalizing to the entire country and for every single specialty? I don't know of any other specialties or programs that publicly announce what criteria they use. I do know that I have several friends who matched in Canada with only average MCCEE scores, which disproves your point entirely.

[dokrbb]

well, I'm not generalizing, and I have an idea what I'm talking about,

 

it's based on the replies I got personally from prog directors/on their behalf who stated that the first and only criterion they use is the EE, but they encouraged me nevertheless, as you do btw, to apply; the programs I asked information about were: Neurology, Pediatrics, Emergency Med, Internal Med, Radiation Oncology, Psych, ...oh, and Anesthesia,

 

so, you see, I don't generalize, It is a general rule (almost general maybe) and I know what I'm talking about, painfully well

 

but if someone wants to be delusional, it's his/her choice

[tooty]

I know of an IMG pgy-1 FM resident from the Caribbeans. He was one of a few in his class who were interviewed at a few schools in Canada. His EE score was in the top 5th percentile.

[leviathan]

well, I'm not generalizing, and I have an idea what I'm talking about,

 

it's based on the replies I got personally from prog directors/on their behalf who stated that the first and only criterion they use is the EE, but they encouraged me nevertheless, as you do btw, to apply; the programs I asked information about were: Neurology, Pediatrics, Emergency Med, Internal Med, Radiation Oncology, Psych, ...oh, and Anesthesia,

 

so, you see, I don't generalize, It is a general rule (almost general maybe) and I know what I'm talking about, painfully well

 

but if someone wants to be delusional, it's his/her choice

 

I know people who matched in Anesthesia, Emergency med and Psych who didn't have the best EE scores but are otherwise very smart and competitive people. So you are either lying or the programs are lying to you. The fact that you claim you 'spoke' to 7 different specialties each of which has at least 10 programs each makes me question your honesty.

[leviathan]

I know of an IMG pgy-1 FM resident from the Caribbeans. He was one of a few in his class who were interviewed at a few schools in Canada. His EE score was in the top 5th percentile.

Based on the percentiles your friend probably had a score around 350. Believe it or not the average EE score for Ontario FM interview invites last year was 426, and he was 1.5 standard deviations below the average invite score. Of course I'm not assuming he is somewhere in Ontario, just that dokrbb is basing all of his opinions on the preferences of a few programs in Ontario and generalizing that to the whole country. Now of course he's saying he has spoken to all of these programs across the country.

 

Kinda goes to show that even for the published 'averages' by schools, there are many exceptions to the rule.

 

Obviously score well for your best chances of matching, which I think we can all agree on. The difference is there's still some hope of matching even if you don't do well. Many people I know fit in that category.

[sohaloh]

Not meaning to hijack the thread but do USMLE scores matter at all for the Canadian match. I'm asking because I passed the MCCEE, MCCQE1, MCCQE2 and the NAC OSCE all within the course of 8 months (gave MCCEE a year before attempting the other three because I wasn't in Canada). I got decent scores and have quite alot of other stuff on my application but no interviews yet. Still waiting on 4 programs to reply. I was wondering if I don't get any interviews whether completing the USMLE's would help my chances next year (have step 2 CS already).

[dokrbb]

I know people who matched in Anesthesia, Emergency med and Psych who didn't have the best EE scores but are otherwise very smart and competitive people. So you are either lying or the programs are lying to you. The fact that you claim you 'spoke' to 7 different specialties each of which has at least 10 programs each makes me question your honesty.

 

- why do you question my honesty? bc I'm an IMG or because the facts I present don't fit with your points of view?

here is the reason why I sent a message to all those different programs:

- in 2011 I applied for Fam Med, Internal Med and Pediatrics in Ontario since I passed only EE, and didn't get any interview invitation; my EE score was average(well, a few points above average ) but my work experience in Canada was strong(is still strong) - a governmental research project in pediatrics, in a Children's Hospital University Medical center;

 

- after not getting any invitation I thought that well, Fam Med is already saying that they take the highest EE scores as the first screening, but what about others? I sent a message to the other above-mentioned programs in order to see, maybe they all have different criteria - in this way I will plan to which one I could apply on the next round, or they are the same, and being from Quebec, don't even have to bother spending another 700$ for Ontario programs;

 

Now, do you want to check my honesty? anyways, I don't care what do you think about me, but just don't speak about "hope" and "dreams to be followed" when someone is asking about the chances of getting an interview with an average score; it's like speaking about philosophy of life when someone is asking you how to find the value of the hypotenuse of a right triangle, knowing the sides (hope you got the point);

 

-another example: I know an IMG who applied to Gen Surgery and Fam Med in Ontario and Quebec, with a score of 350ish on EE; he got already interviews from McGill for Fam Med and Gen Surgery, but refusal from Ontario, so my theory is still applicable for the anglophone part of the country... unfortunately

 

any questions?

[leviathan]

Not meaning to hijack the thread but do USMLE scores matter at all for the Canadian match. I'm asking because I passed the MCCEE, MCCQE1, MCCQE2 and the NAC OSCE all within the course of 8 months (gave MCCEE a year before attempting the other three because I wasn't in Canada). I got decent scores and have quite alot of other stuff on my application but no interviews yet. Still waiting on 4 programs to reply. I was wondering if I don't get any interviews whether completing the USMLE's would help my chances next year (have step 2 CS already).

It probably wouldn't make much difference but if you've got the time and money to spend, at least you could apply to the states.

[leviathan]

- why do you question my honesty? bc I'm an IMG or because the facts I present don't fit with your points of view?

here is the reason why I sent a message to all those different programs:

- in 2011 I applied for Fam Med, Internal Med and Pediatrics in Ontario since I passed only EE, and didn't get any interview invitation; my EE score was average(well, a few points above average ) but my work experience in Canada was strong(is still strong) - a governmental research project in pediatrics, in a Children's Hospital University Medical center;

 

- after not getting any invitation I thought that well, Fam Med is already saying that they take the highest EE scores as the first screening, but what about others? I sent a message to the other above-mentioned programs in order to see, maybe they all have different criteria - in this way I will plan to which one I could apply on the next round, or they are the same, and being from Quebec, don't even have to bother spending another 700$ for Ontario programs;

 

Now, do you want to check my honesty? anyways, I don't care what do you think about me, but just don't speak about "hope" and "dreams to be followed" when someone is asking about the chances of getting an interview with an average score; it's like speaking about philosophy of life when someone is asking you how to find the value of the hypotenuse of a right triangle, knowing the sides (hope you got the point);

 

-another example: I know an IMG who applied to Gen Surgery and Fam Med in Ontario and Quebec, with a score of 350ish on EE; he got already interviews from McGill for Fam Med and Gen Surgery, but refusal from Ontario, so my theory is still applicable for the anglophone part of the country... unfortunately

 

any questions?

 

I'm sorry that you've had trouble so far with getting a spot in Canada. It doesn't matter what you say, because I know a good number of people who matched in Canada with EE scores <400. I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to argue here, because it proves EE scores are not the only parameter for many programs.

 

Bottom line: For at least some programs, the chances are still decent to get interviews or even match, as long as the rest of your application is strong. End of discussion.

[NLengr]

 

-another example: I know an IMG who applied to Gen Surgery and Fam Med in Ontario and Quebec, with a score of 350ish on EE; he got already interviews from McGill for Fam Med and Gen Surgery, but refusal from Ontario, so my theory is still applicable for the anglophone part of the country... unfortunately

 

any questions?

 

You realize there is 8 other provinces which encompass the "anglophone part" of the country.

[dokrbb]

I'm sorry that you've had trouble so far with getting a spot in Canada. It doesn't matter what you say, because I know a good number of people who matched in Canada with EE scores <400. I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to argue here, because it proves EE scores are not the only parameter for many programs.

 

Bottom line: For at least some programs, the chances are still decent to get interviews or even match, as long as the rest of your application is strong. End of discussion.

 

the chances are not decent - they are directly proportional with your EE score,

 

now it's end of discussion.

[dokrbb]

You realize there is 8 other provinces which encompass the "anglophone part" of the country.

 

oh, really

 

that's why I always, always love to post on this thread, trying to call things by their names is just a pain in the A**

 

good luck fellows

[leviathan]

the chances are not decent - they are directly proportional with your EE score,

 

now it's end of discussion.

People can believe the IMGs including myself who have actually matched, or you can believe this guy. Your choice. Yes, according to him if your MCCEE scores are 350 don't bother applying. I would take that with just a few grains of salt since he's actively trying to get a spot in residency. Maybe just a bit of a conflict of interest there.

[thebouque]

Stop feeding the troll. OP's question has been answered at the beginning of the thread.

[leviathan]

I agree. This thread will be locked as I think it's run its course now.