Robin Hood Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 I used to feel the same way as nonstop, thinking that medicine won't change the world and I will end up with insignificant life.But after experiencing losing someone close to you, you realize that preventive medicine/emergency medicine or whatever that save one or two lives can be 'changing the world' for the patients and their family. But I also agree that if that doctor wasn't in that spot, another easily could have. But then you can use the same logic for every other profession. If someone didn't find cure to a disease, another would soon. I don't see how that is 'significant' or 'changing the world' per se in nonstop's definition either. But really saying you won't be a great doctor if you go into medicine primarily for money/prestige is bull.. I know tons of docs that value money/prestige the most, yet I would consider them to be great doctors. Patients love them. People on pm101 have most ridiculous logic that if you care about money, you must not care about patients.. That is not true. You can be just as empathetic and caring to patients, but still have chosen medicine primarily for money/prestige. I think it's because MDs who are there for the money are seem as materialistic, that they will try everything to gain more, like seeing less patients, or they patients won't be their concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixFlare500 Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 I think it's because MDs who are there for the money are seem as materialistic, that they will try everything to gain more, like seeing less patients, or they patients won't be their concern. Actually you do it by seeing more patients for shorter periods of time, e.g. 5 minutes each, only address one problem each time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 a good way of looking at a job, is how much you're worth to an employer… hence, say in non-socialized professions like law, you pay more for a lawyer with more skill, political clout, friends, whatever gives you a better chance of winning, and what a win is worth to you, assuming you have more money than the lawyer demands… if you're going to do mcmedicine (which i've called gp's on, no one complaint for me, i know your billing structure and can be fervent) you might as well save the patients the hassle and do something that serves a purpose in exponentiatiating wealth (and moreso prevents continuity of care, costs more in the long run (2 week inpatient stays for xanax detoxes on the 2 mg he now takes because you started him on 0.5, or the cost (both physical and financial) of dexedrine for chronic fatigue syndrome or daytime drowsiness when a thorough work up and sleep studio may have been better), or providing a disproportionate value for a patient in relation to your time, while appreciating the economic conditions and services your target demographic would want… i'm very interested in learning disorders, and integrative (non-ideologically limited, which takes a lot of time to develop, as the requisite skills are outside your discipline, yet pertinent (knowing extensively about Polish history for wealthy party escapees shortly after the initial revolt, or knowing how melatonin affects dinitryloxidase binding to tyrosine kinase, even beating the bush about life, and being non judgemental, you'd be surprised what people would like to say, but avoid, for fear of judgement, I've heard it all, and for a fee I'll listen to the "shameful" behaviour your avante guard wife refuses to listen to, or how your mistress is so much more adventurous, that's confidential, and for your health and well being, you need someone to talk about this with… funny world where people will pay enormous sums because a partner has defined "for better or worse" and set out consequences.) treatment is a rare package, as is is integrative mental health in general, but people pay for customization, especially when prepackaged solutions have failed (traditional psych) and their gain is valuable (people like being happy, heard, having an input, not having someone watch a clock, a pleasant environment, access to the most modern medical facilities and a professional who can be exhaustive and treat you as the priority, rather than as an obstacle… this isn't cheap by the way, sorry socialism, lining pockets with unnecessary investigations, and nepotism, is no more moral than exchanging money hand to hand, instead of downstream, somewhere i'n what is likely mostly the middle classes taxes) Actually you do it by seeing more patients for shorter periods of time, e.g. 5 minutes each, only address one problem each time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Actually you do it by seeing more patients for shorter periods of time, e.g. 5 minutes each, only address one problem each time. Oops! Shouldn't have probably written at 1 AM. What I think is that greedy doctors will not take the necessary time to stay with a patient, and will quickly show them the door, eventhough the patient wasn't clearly heard or s/he has other concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st8ic Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 If you want a guaranteed six figure job, be a psychologist. In most provinces you need a PhD, but once you get into grad school you're set for life. My girlfriend is in a clinical psych masters program and she's fully funded. A lot of PhD students in her lab are making $50k/year. The profs get massive funding because it's a sexy field and they see private clients on the side and make a quarter million easy. Once you graduate, the unemployment rate for psychologists is non-existent. On the low end, if you go into government/non-profit, you make $70k. On the high end, you can be an IO psychologist and make a million plus. Don't feel like working very hard? See depressed housewives three days a week for $130/hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medigeek Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 If you want a guaranteed six figure job, be a psychologist. In most provinces you need a PhD, but once you get into grad school you're set for life. My girlfriend is in a clinical psych masters program and she's fully funded. A lot of PhD students in her lab are making $50k/year. The profs get massive funding because it's a sexy field and they see private clients on the side and make a quarter million easy. Once you graduate, the unemployment rate for psychologists is non-existent. On the low end, if you go into government/non-profit, you make $70k. On the high end, you can be an IO psychologist and make a million plus. Don't feel like working very hard? See depressed housewives three days a week for $130/hour. How many people going into undergrad psych actually become a clinical psychologist? Also, this is probably over 10 years (11-12?) in total from undergrad to end of ph.d? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medigeek Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 I used to feel the same way as nonstop, thinking that medicine won't change the world and I will end up with insignificant life.But after experiencing losing someone close to you, you realize that preventive medicine/emergency medicine or whatever that save one or two lives can be 'changing the world' for the patients and their family. But I also agree that if that doctor wasn't in that spot, another easily could have. But then you can use the same logic for every other profession. If someone didn't find cure to a disease, another would soon. I don't see how that is 'significant' or 'changing the world' per se in nonstop's definition either. But really saying you won't be a great doctor if you go into medicine primarily for money/prestige is bull.. I know tons of docs that value money/prestige the most, yet I would consider them to be great doctors. Patients love them. People on pm101 have most ridiculous logic that if you care about money, you must not care about patients.. That is not true. You can be just as empathetic and caring to patients, but still have chosen medicine primarily for money/prestige. Yea this type of thinking is only limited to p101 and some of SDN, in real life no one views this as a bad thing. Though you do need an interest in medical sciences to become a doctor, that's about the only requirement. Actually you do it by seeing more patients for shorter periods of time, e.g. 5 minutes each, only address one problem each time. And what if the quality of care is still high? I've seen a couple walk-in docs who took their time and sucked. I've seen a couple who blazed through in 2 mins and were right on perfect. Sounds like the latter do a better job *and* make more cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st8ic Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 How many people going into undergrad psych actually become a clinical psychologist? Also, this is probably over 10 years (11-12?) in total from undergrad to end of ph.d? Very few undergrads in psych go into grad school. Yes, it is competitive. (She got in with a 3.6) I'm just saying that life's a cake walk once you get in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 hey, someone who agrees with me, who hoo! it's cool you make a mil a year, but how many people will say, thanks to you, i'm still alive, and enjoying life, it's so beautiful, i can't believe i was that close to making mom come to her daughters own funeral… **** like that are like whoa, life sucks, i only drive a 3 series… obviously, roflmao, actually they're kind of overwhelming. plus, the journey of seeing someone recover, you take with them, you see the fruits of all those hours, they go to college, or university, become a nurse, and start giving back, because they know how it feels to be sitting in emerge with bandaged wrists… in the back, with the we'll deal with that later feel I used to feel the same way as nonstop, thinking that medicine won't change the world and I will end up with insignificant life.But after experiencing losing someone close to you, you realize that preventive medicine/emergency medicine or whatever that save one or two lives can be 'changing the world' for the patients and their family. But I also agree that if that doctor wasn't in that spot, another easily could have. But then you can use the same logic for every other profession. If someone didn't find cure to a disease, another would soon. I don't see how that is 'significant' or 'changing the world' per se in nonstop's definition either. But really saying you won't be a great doctor if you go into medicine primarily for money/prestige is bull.. I know tons of docs that value money/prestige the most, yet I would consider them to be great doctors. Patients love them. People on pm101 have most ridiculous logic that if you care about money, you must not care about patients.. That is not true. You can be just as empathetic and caring to patients, but still have chosen medicine primarily for money/prestige. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 you think i even knew what ip3, ppc3, caldmodullin, cgmp, catp, nitrated sacharides for binding and recognition, inverse agonists, compensative agonists, ionotropic versus metabotropic, which affected rna transcription… **** even latin… that's wait epi-genetics… in uni bio, i asked what dan stood for, i didn't know, i didn't take hs bio at this point, with private billing, and being a few standard deviations above the psychological population, clinical psychologist would pay better than something like psychiatry, won't have people, telling me how to run my business… by the way… i took all the extra science, because i saw how it could augment my arts education, and augment helping clinical populations… if i didn't know people with schizophrenia, i wouldn't be interested in knowing what receptors diff anti psychs target, and which might minimize side effects important to that person. so it works the other way around too, your interest can stem from an emotional one, because really, knowing a lot of random facts is pretty retarded unless there was a use for them. i guess my use, is helping people get to walk into to "on that give's a ****" about my concerns, cause i've seen lots of people on the other side, and a lot of the time it didn't turn out well (treating anorexia with olanzapine = another suicide, ) Yea this type of thinking is only limited to p101 and some of SDN, in real life no one views this as a bad thing. Though you do need an interest in medical sciences to become a doctor, that's about the only requirement. And what if the quality of care is still high? I've seen a couple walk-in docs who took their time and sucked. I've seen a couple who blazed through in 2 mins and were right on perfect. Sounds like the latter do a better job *and* make more cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixFlare500 Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 And what if the quality of care is still high? I've seen a couple walk-in docs who took their time and sucked. I've seen a couple who blazed through in 2 mins and were right on perfect. Sounds like the latter do a better job *and* make more cash. There's a case in Manitoba that hit the media recently where a woman died two weeks after receiving this type of one-problem-only care because the doc never let her tell him enough symptoms to properly diagnose her. I'm sure this rarely happens with that kind of care, but if someone dies as a consequence it should make you wonder if it's really the best way to go. And the comments that go with the online publications show that the general public is not ok with how this went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medigeek Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 There's a case in Manitoba that hit the media recently where a woman died two weeks after receiving this type of one-problem-only care because the doc never let her tell him enough symptoms to properly diagnose her. I'm sure this rarely happens with that kind of care, but if someone dies as a consequence it should make you wonder if it's really the best way to go. And the comments that go with the online publications show that the general public is not ok with how this went down. Ya I fully agree with that. But it just varies from patient to patient. Many patients will need more time and the physician must give them more time. But overall, if a physician is skilled enough to blast through more of the patients (with standard of care)... then more power (and money) to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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