Orcamute Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 I am interested, how many people believe in an entity here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markov79 Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 heads up that this is a public poll. not like you were trying to hide it, but the warning/heading isn't the most salient by nature of the forumz. so i'm just saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exocytosis Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 I am interested, how many people believe in an entity here? All brave men with hearts of war ride the path of mighty Thor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futurepediatric Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 This kind of poll was done several times, but not as a public poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrenchToast Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 heads up that this is a public poll. not like you were trying to hide it, but the warning/heading isn't the most salient by nature of the forumz. so i'm just saying LOLOL thanks for the warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orcamute Posted April 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 This is really interesting. I don't know why but I didn't expect there to be so many theists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 None of the poll options represent my views. I'm religious, but not of a mainstream religion, and my particular views are unique even within my own faith group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverwolf1277 Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 None of the poll options represent my views. I'm religious, but not of a mainstream religion, and my particular views are unique even within my own faith group. I don't think the question is asking if you're religious or not. simply whether or not you believe in god/a deity. I think regardless of your views you can answer it, especially since the undecided option is there. Unless it's some sort of Heisenberg-esque view of God's existence/non-existence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futurepediatric Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 This is really interesting. I don't know why but I didn't expect there to be so many theists. Haha I expected the opposite (based on a poll not too long ago on PM101, but with religions broken up and Catholics being the majority - from what I remember). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orcamute Posted April 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 None of the poll options represent my views. I'm religious, but not of a mainstream religion, and my particular views are unique even within my own faith group. Can you elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 Can you elaborate? My views are that there is no divine being/divine beings, so to speak, but that divinity exists as the expression of the many facets of human existence. Not a supernatural being (or group of supernatural beings) but our own creations that serve important purposes to many people, and no less real than any other concept created by our species. For instance, philosophy exists, that's simply a fact. It is a framework that many people use to make sense of the world. I view divinity the same way. Real, but conceptual, and a useful framework for me when it comes to dealing with difficult issues that are unexplainable by other means. I'm not an atheist, agnostic, or monotheistic, so none of the options fit me. I'm neo-Pagan by association as that is where I find people most like me, though I differ from most in that I do not believe in actual divine beings. My general approach to religion is 'if it makes you happy and you can keep it to yourself, fill yer boots.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orcamute Posted April 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 Haha I expected the opposite (based on a poll not too long ago on PM101, but with religions broken up and Catholics being the majority - from what I remember). See, usually..people who are scientifically literate /logical thinkers..are atheists (from what I have seen) so its very interesting to see that this is not the case here. You would think, as a medical student..you are kind of a contradiction of the point of a God (i.e saving people) and your background knowledge in the human anatomy (with all of its faults which hints on a poor designer &c.) would perhaps lead you to agnosticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryke22 Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 See, usually..people who are scientifically literate /logical thinkers..are atheists (from what I have seen) so its very interesting to see that this is not the case here. You would think, as a medical student..you are kind of a contradiction of the point of a God (i.e saving people) and your background knowledge in the human anatomy (with all of its faults which hints on a poor designer &c.) would perhaps lead you to agnosticism. So you are saying that if the point of medical students and doctors is to save people that the point of a God is to destroy people?! I hardly think so ... medicine compliments my belief in God quite nicely as it is a way to show love and care towards fellow human beings which is the main quality of God (love). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orcamute Posted April 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 So you are saying that if the point of medical students and doctors is to save people that the point of a God is to destroy people?! I hardly think so ... medicine compliments my belief in God quite nicely as it is a way to show love and care towards fellow human beings which is the main quality of God (love). Well..that can be debated upon, but I guess religion is all about interpretation and if that makes you happy..well good on ya. I can see how Medicine can show your love to fellow people, that is a beautiful way of looking at it. Thank you for saying that. What I was saying about being a medical doctor contradicts God, is that..God (generally speaking in the Judeo-Christian sense) determines when people die. If somebody is supposed to die, it is because God is letting it happen..right? I remember having an interesting conversation with one of my buddies who is a Jehovah's Witness. I asked him "If you were choking, would you rather I perform the heimlich maneuver on you or would you rather I pray for you?" I think that represents what I was saying quite nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 Well..that can be debated upon, but I guess religion is all about interpretation and if that makes you happy..well good on ya. I can see how Medicine can show your love to fellow people, that is a beautiful way of looking at it. Thank you for saying that. What I was saying about being a medical doctor contradicts God, is that..God (generally speaking in the Judeo-Christian sense) determines when people die. If somebody is supposed to die, it is because God is letting it happen..right? I remember having an interesting conversation with one of my buddies who is a Jehovah's Witness. I asked him "If you were choking, would you rather I perform the heimlich maneuver on you or would you rather I pray for you?" I think that represents what I was saying quite nicely. Many Christians (and people of other faiths as well, but my experience in discussions of this nature is primarily with Christians) believe that god gives the physicians the skills, and allowed people to gain the knowledge that allows them to save lives. It falls under the 'God helps those who help themselves' idea. Have you ever heard the story of the man standing on his roof in a flood, praying for god to save him? A canoe, a search and rescue boat and a helicopter come by to try to save him, and he says no, god will save him. When he drowns, he asks why god didnt save him and god tells him "I sent a canoe, a boat, and a helicopter. What more did you expect." Many religious people view god as working through people. The doctor can save lives because god gave them skill and intelligence and so on. Also, do not take theist to mean creationist. Many, probably a large majority, of Christians (again, likely other faiths too, just where the majority of my interactions are) have no issue with evolution. My mother's view, which I find interesting, is that god hit the first domino, and basically stood back to see what would happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futurepediatric Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 See, usually..people who are scientifically literate /logical thinkers..are atheists (from what I have seen) so its very interesting to see that this is not the case here. You would think, as a medical student..you are kind of a contradiction of the point of a God (i.e saving people) and your background knowledge in the human anatomy (with all of its faults which hints on a poor designer &c.) would perhaps lead you to agnosticism. Well..that can be debated upon, but I guess religion is all about interpretation and if that makes you happy..well good on ya. I can see how Medicine can show your love to fellow people, that is a beautiful way of looking at it. Thank you for saying that. What I was saying about being a medical doctor contradicts God, is that..God (generally speaking in the Judeo-Christian sense) determines when people die. If somebody is supposed to die, it is because God is letting it happen..right? I remember having an interesting conversation with one of my buddies who is a Jehovah's Witness. I asked him "If you were choking, would you rather I perform the heimlich maneuver on you or would you rather I pray for you?" I think that represents what I was saying quite nicely. It's actually quite sad to see how little someone can know about this/how uneducated you are about this. I can hardly tell if you're trolling or not. In regards to the bolded quote, like Birdy mentioned, Christians believe in the 'Do your best and God will do the rest' kind of thing. And I don't know why you separated prayer from action - that was pretty silly of you. Prayer is done with action; hence, many activism/charities/volunteer work, etc. by religious organizations. There are many religious people/people who believe in a God in the medical profession (perhaps they are a majority? I have no idea). Off the top of my head, Ben Carson, who is a successful neurosurgeon, is also a devout Christian. Belief in God =/= illogical and contradicts being a doctor Anyways, you should do some research - judging by your posts from this thread and the other, you have pretty unlimited knowledge about this topic. A lot of your false claims and questions could be clarified with simple google searches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyK Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 What I was saying about being a medical doctor contradicts God, is that..God (generally speaking in the Judeo-Christian sense) determines when people die. If somebody is supposed to die, it is because God is letting it happen..right? I remember having an interesting conversation with one of my buddies who is a Jehovah's Witness. I asked him "If you were choking, would you rather I perform the heimlich maneuver on you or would you rather I pray for you?" I think that represents what I was saying quite nicely. God KNOWING when someone will die and God DETERMINING when someone will die are two different concepts. If God determines when we die, we essentially are victims of fate, which I, as a Christian, do not believe. We have free will. We are subject to the world we live in - much of which we had a hand in forming. Step out in front of a moving bus, and you'll suffer the consequences. I will say that I don't believe death is a big deal to God. Life on Earth to Christians is such a small part of the puzzle. Death is not the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyK Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 Oops, forgot to add... I can't really understand how one can study the human body and not appreciate that there must have been some divine intervention. Agree with Stryke22 - it totally fits with my beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orcamute Posted April 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 Oops, forgot to add... I can't really understand how one can study the human body and not appreciate that there must have been some divine intervention. Agree with Stryke22 - it totally fits with my beliefs. Can you explain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exocytosis Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 I can't really understand how one can study the human body and not appreciate that there must have been some divine intervention. I agree 100%. I mean, my primary waste disposal organ is also my primary sexy-time organ. There's no way there wasn't a trickster god involved in designing that. And the combination of narrow hips and giant heads, making childbirth unnecessarily painful? Yeah, good one, thanks a lot, Loki. Ectopic pregnancy? Our gene for Vitamin C synthesis being defective? (I bet Loki has shares in Tropicana.) The route of the recurrent laryngeal nerve? The fact that I breath and eat through the same tube? ("I'm just going to take a bite of this burger and oh no I choked and died. Thanks a lot, Loki.") Best practical jokes in the universe. And don't get me started on wisdom teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xkittens Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 I agree 100%. I mean, my primary waste disposal organ is also my primary sexy-time organ. There's no way there wasn't a trickster god involved in designing that. And the combination of narrow hips and giant heads, making childbirth unnecessarily painful? Yeah, good one, thanks a lot, Loki. Ectopic pregnancy? Our gene for Vitamin C synthesis being defective? (I bet Loki has shares in Tropicana.) The route of the recurrent laryngeal nerve? The fact that I breath and eat through the same tube? ("I'm just going to take a bite of this burger and oh no I choked and died. Thanks a lot, Loki.") Best practical jokes in the universe. And don't get me started on wisdom teeth. Hey man don't forget about that jolly little pouch of sunshine where your small intestine meets your cecum! What jolly good fun when it inflates with pure goodness! Also don't get me started on the BRILLIANT design of the eye- it takes one hell of an engineer to point the receiver away from the signal and nothing says German class engineering like placing the trachea in front of the esophagus! I think god partied a little too hard in human engineering class, engineers you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xkittens Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 Also, do not take theist to mean creationist. Many, probably a large majority, of Christians (again, likely other faiths too, just where the majority of my interactions are) have no issue with evolution. My mother's view, which I find interesting, is that god hit the first domino, and basically stood back to see what would happen. Then 4.6 billion years later he suddenly decided to descend down upon us, leave a few commandments, impregnate a "virgin" here and there and then leave again for 2000 years? Nahh if you believe the conventional religions you don't get to sidestep around evolution like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orcamute Posted April 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 lmao. I actually did a whole article on this called "Stupid Design" this was the just of it; You look into space from Earth and you see the beautiful stars at night (that have probably died), you're in awe looking at a beautiful blossomed rose and so amazed at how incredibly amazing Humans are and how stupid other animals are..and maybe you think, "wow..this had to be created!" HOLD ON. Humans Lets Examine Human life first (lets not even get into penis like vaginas in hyenas or wings on flightless birds or the femur and pelvis in whales or eyes in subterranean animals that are never exposed to light or why plants are green and not black as they would absorb more light &c.), if we breathe in these tasteless/odorless gases; CO4, CO2, CH4.. WE'RE DEAD. Most of the Oxygen we breathe..we breathe out ? (also the notoriously inefficient enzyme RuBisCO), The pharynx (a passage used for both ingestion and respiration which lead to many of us choking every year), we lack the enzyme L-gulonolactone oxidase (Vitamin C production..which is found in the majority of living organisms). All the Cancers and Unknown Birth Defects (far too long to list), Vision loss (we are also blind to the majority of the Electromagnetic Spectrum..including Ionizing Radiation), We're comatose for more than 40% of our lives, the orgasm in females is usually stimulated by the clitoris (which is not typically stimulated during direct intercourse) the malformation of the human spine, We have body parts that have no usage (quite a few to name but il just use Appendix and Molars as an example..other primates actually have the jaw structure to use the third row of molars while we do not), we have to eat constantly, we have skin that painfully burns when exposed to the Sun rays (A Sun that also blinds you when you look at it), Knee Joints that bend only one way, barely used muscles like the plantaris muscle of the foot, the temporary presence of a tail in human fetuses, The majority of our brain we can't use (and forget the majority of what we learn), Laryngeal Nerve (which loops around the aortic arc) and the long neural pathway that takes photic information from the eyes to the pineal gland (but goes to the Thoracic Spinal Cord instead of just connecting the Paraventricular Nucleus to the Pineal Gland &c.); Earth It took more than 3.5billion years to create multicellular life, 99.999% of life that ever lived is Extinct, Tsunami's, Volcanoes & Earthquakes that kill thousands upon thousands a year (recently the Tsunami in Japan that killed 20,000), we can't live on 3/4 of the Earth, Uhmm..Tornadoes/Hurricanes/Lightning, Asteroides, Climate Shift, Pole shift hypothesis, Inner solar systems a shooting galaxy, sink holes.. we can starve or freeze on the majority of Earth &c. Universe Heat/ Cosmic Radiation/Cold (A giant Microwave Oven..so to speak) in the majority of the Universe (we cannot survive), Galaxy Orbits bring you near a Supernova (That will wipe out our Ozone layers and kill all), Star Formation is completely inefficient, Gamma Ray Bursts, that "beautiful shooting star" is really just a Meteoroid burning the Earths Atmosphere, Black Holes, Galactic Cannibalism (when a Galaxy Eats another Galaxy), A Vacuum Metastability Event (From my Junior Understanding of Quantum Physics; We may Exist in a false vaccuum state that in which has a an energy level too low for more than temporary maintenance. Any given moment it could call it quits and succumb to the added pressures and be replaced by energy levels much higher), One-way Universe will wind down to Oblivion & that the majority of orbits are unstable &c.. Image Sources: Google Images Also Dr. Tyson WHY would any god design this?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebouque Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 Since we can't go back in time, there's really no way to tell if we have free will or not. I say we don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 Then 4.6 billion years later he suddenly decided to descend down upon us, leave a few commandments, impregnate a "virgin" here and there and then leave again for 2000 years? Nahh if you believe the conventional religions you don't get to sidestep around evolution like that. Enh, not up to me to decide what others believe. She keeps her faith personal, doesn't get pushy with it, so she can believe whatever she so chooses as far as I'm concerned. And regardless of your dismissiveness, a large majority of Christians take the Bible as figurative, a guidebook, not a literal recounting of events. There is a fair amount of good to be found in it, though I'm not a member of the relgion myself. For someone with so many opinions on the subject, you display a remarkable lack of knowledge of theology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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