Can you view your final exam (undergrad)

[dana_2]

From what I gather, I can see that I only have 30 mins to view my final exam. And I got no rights of photocopying my final exam. Am I wrong, by any chance?

Any particular reason for this, or universities are just expecting to get sued on the topic?

Thanks,

Dana.

[Guest]

Not sure about your university, but yes you can view your final exam, you just need to e-mail the professor. They'll probably let you view it for more than 30min.

And probably no photocopying because professors use very similar exams every year. 

[OwnerOfTheTARDIS]

You should have the right to access your final exam and review it. I would email the professor for the course and ask if you can meet them (or their TA) in their office to go over the exam. 

However, most universities and professors do not allow photos taken or copies to be made of the final exam as questions are often reused and they want to keep the exam fair for future classes. Having worked as a TA, I totally understand this as it is surprisingly hard to come up with new and unique questions while still covering all the important topics.

[RichardDegrasseSagan]

I would suggest taking some notes in with you to look over while you review the exam. I had requested an exam review, which was granted a month or two after the exam in question. So I was pretty rusty on the material. Thankfully the mistake turned out to be an addition one (they forgot to count a whole page) and my final grade shot up by 7%. 

But yeah, when I was looking it over, I forgot many of the nuances and specific pathways etc. Good luck!

 

[rmorelan]

I reviewed every single final exam I wrote at waterloo.

 

[dana_2]

I understand what you guys are saying and thank you very much !!!

When you guys were reviewing the exam papers, with the teacher or the TA, were you able to ask questions and receive answers, as to why you received a particular grade?

[rmorelan]

48 minutes ago, dana_2 said:

I understand what you guys are saying and thank you very much !!!

When you guys were reviewing the exam papers, with the teacher or the TA, were you able to ask questions and receive answers, as to why you received a particular grade?

in my case I was just handed the exams, put in a room without the means to copy it (but I had notes/textbook etc), and just went through it. If I had questions I asked. 

[dana_2]

1 hour ago, rmorelan said:

in my case I was just handed the exams, put in a room without the means to copy it (but I had notes/textbook etc), and just went through it. If I had questions I asked. 

I am interested in the last part  Who did you ask, the teacher/TA who graded you? 

[rmorelan]

2 minutes ago, dana_2 said:

I am interested in the last part  Who did you ask, the teacher/TA who graded you? 

Course Professor - since the course by definition was done then there was no longer an assigned TA. 

[dana_2]

Sounds very good to me, in principle that is exactly what I want to find out: why did I take a certain grade. I do not want to just appeal the grade, perhaps the TA was justified in grading me the way he/she did.

[rmorelan]

Just now, dana_2 said:

Sounds very good to me, in principle that is exactly what I want to find out: why did I take a certain grade. I do not want to just appeal the grade, perhaps the TA was justified in grading me the way he/she did.

I mean most of the time with reviewing it in a non stressout exam time, with the textbook for instance, I can figure out how/why I got something wrong. 

Also really gave me insight into how professors mark, how they set up questions, and often you will have that same professor again so that is useful knowledge. 

[dana_2]

Though this practice is extremely odd, and I do not think it would withstand a court review. It collides powerfully with the Freedom of Information, and the fact that if the state (or one of its organizations it controls either directly or via a statute - like the University of Toronto Act, crown corporations, provincial universities, etc.) holds something about you - which the exam certainly is - then it MUST disclose and provide you with a copy.

[OwnerOfTheTARDIS]

5 hours ago, dana_2 said:

Though this practice is extremely odd, and I do not think it would withstand a court review. It collides powerfully with the Freedom of Information, and the fact that if the state (or one of its organizations it controls either directly or via a statute - like the University of Toronto Act, crown corporations, provincial universities, etc.) holds something about you - which the exam certainly is - then it MUST disclose and provide you with a copy.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that there is a strong argument that the test is the intellectual property of the professor/university and because they give you access to view the exam, they are not violating rules surrounding access to exams. You may have written a test, but the information on it is not personal information (unlike a medical record) so you don't have any inherent right to ownership. 

Additionally, you probably signed something when you enrolled recognizing that tests/assignments/lectures are the intellectual property of the professor/lecturer who produced them. It's the same reason students are technically legally required to ask permission before recording a class (even though many record without asking).

[frenchpress]

I don't know if this is the case at all universities in Canada, but it is an extremely common university policy that final exams become the property of the university. The storage requirements and access requirements are often dictated by other university policies and provincial laws, but the practice is certainly allowed by law (at least in BC). University policies will usually have a provision requiring that students must submit requests to review exams by a certain date, and will have provisions for how the request is handled if the professor doesn't provide access to review it.

Some departments will have rules around how much time students can spend doing exam reviews, and will even go so far as to tell students they can't ask questions about the final exams when reviewing it. This is generally because universities ALSO have central policies around review of assigned standing -- e.g. if you want to ask for your exam to be remarked (or any assignments at all after the final grade has been submitted to the university), you need to pay a fee and go through a centralized process. Many instructors are more easy going about it and will let you meet with them and ask questions (and even point out to them marking errors that they will then fix). But in high-volume classes with a lot of students it is not uncommon for instructors to fall back on the central university policy to prevent getting inundated with remarking requests.

This is based on my experience teaching as a university course instructor in BC for several years.

[frenchpress]

19 hours ago, OwnerOfTheTARDIS said:

You should have the right to access your final exam and review it. I would email the professor for the course and ask if you can meet them (or their TA) in their office to go over the exam. 

However, most universities and professors do not allow photos taken or copies to be made of the final exam as questions are often reused and they want to keep the exam fair for future classes. Having worked as a TA, I totally understand this as it is surprisingly hard to come up with new and unique questions while still covering all the important topics.

Wanting to reuse questions is the big reason. Many instructors are very aware that students tend to post copies of old exams to sites like course hero But there are a couple other reasons that drive these kinds of policies. 

One is that the exam itself is the instructor's intellectual property, and is covered by copyright protections. But copyright is hard to enforce. So some instructors make a real point of carefully controlling access to their materials -- e.g. not letting things get out means other instructors have to ask for access to materials and permission to use it before they can use it themselves. This is true of exams materials. We have gotten into huge debates about who owns what materials in my department, and a lot of people care a lot about controlling their intellectual property.

Another reason instructors don't like copies of exams floating around is that sometimes they want to change things and NOT ask the same style of question that they have in the past. In these cases, you're usually trying to encourage students to use the new materials that you've created and focus on the learning goals you think are most important. But it becomes a problem if, for example, a student finds and posts old (no longer relevant) exam questions that they found on the internet on the discussion board and gets everyone worked up that they don't know how to solve this new kind of question they've never seen before but think might be important because it was on an old exam (...which has totally happened to me in a course I was teaching).

 

[OwnerOfTheTARDIS]

Found it! Section 18.1 h) of the Ontario Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act states that "A head may refuse to disclose a record that contain... information relating to specific tests or testing procedures or techniques that are to be used for an educational purpose, if disclosure could reasonably be expected to prejudice the use or results of the tests or testing procedures or techniques"

[dana_2]

Does not work if UofT is sued

[Guest]

Why do you want to sue them? It will just be a waste of time and money! Just go view your exam

[dana_2]

2 hours ago, frenchpress said:

Wanting to reuse questions is the big reason. Many instructors are very aware that students tend to post copies of old exams to sites like course hero But there are a couple other reasons that drive these kinds of policies. 

One is that the exam itself is the instructor's intellectual property, and is covered by copyright protections. Some instructors make a real point of carefully controlling access to their materials -- e.g. not letting things get out means other instructors have to ask for access to materials and permission to use it before they can use it themselves. This is true of exams materials. We have gotten into huge debates about who owns what materials in my department, and a lot of people care a lot about controlling their intellectual property.

Another reason instructors don't like copies of exams floating around is that sometimes they want to change things and NOT ask the same style of question that they have in the past. In these cases, you're usually trying to encourage students to use the new materials that you've created and focus on the learning goals you think are most important. But it becomes a problem if, for example, a student finds and posts old (no longer relevant) exam questions that they found on the internet on the discussion board and gets everyone worked up that they don't know how to solve this new kind of question they've never seen before but think might be important because it was on an old exam (...which has totally happened to me in a course I was teaching).

 

Constitutinal principles TRUMP copyright reasons. Like this, everyone can invoke copyright, there will be never any disclosure.

[dana_2]

11 minutes ago, 1997 said:

Why do you want to sue them? It will just be a waste of time and money! Just go view your exam

If they will let me copy it, sure. Otherwise I will sue them.

[dana_2]

2 hours ago, frenchpress said:

I don't know if this is the case at all universities in Canada, but it is an extremely common university policy that final exams become the property of the university. The storage requirements and access requirements are often dictated by other university policies and provincial laws, but the practice is certainly allowed by law (at least in BC). University policies will usually have a provision requiring that students must submit requests to review exams by a certain date, and will have provisions for how the request is handled if the professor doesn't provide access to review it.

Some departments will have rules around how much time students can spend doing exam reviews, and will even go so far as to tell students they can't ask questions about the final exams when reviewing it. This is generally because universities ALSO have central policies around review of assigned standing -- e.g. if you want to ask for your exam to be remarked (or any assignments at all after the final grade has been submitted to the university), you need to pay a fee and go through a centralized process. Many instructors are more easy going about it and will let you meet with them and ask questions (and even point out to them marking errors that they will then fix). But in high-volume classes with a lot of students it is not uncommon for instructors to fall back on the central university policy to prevent getting inundated with remarking requests.

This is based on my experience teaching as a university course instructor in BC for several years.

This is secrecy and does not conform with the principle of disclosure which is enshrined in the Constitution (unwritten rules inherited from the British unwritten Constitutional principles). 

[dana_2]

5 hours ago, OwnerOfTheTARDIS said:

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that there is a strong argument that the test is the intellectual property of the professor/university and because they give you access to view the exam, they are not violating rules surrounding access to exams. You may have written a test, but the information on it is not personal information (unlike a medical record) so you don't have any inherent right to ownership. 

Additionally, you probably signed something when you enrolled recognizing that tests/assignments/lectures are the intellectual property of the professor/lecturer who produced them. It's the same reason students are technically legally required to ask permission before recording a class (even though many record without asking).

Sorry, but Intellectual Property rules do not trump Constitutional Rules. Nobody can sign away their Constitutional Rights.

[Guest]

You should consider a career in law instead of med  

[dana_2]

3 minutes ago, 1997 said:

You should consider a career in law instead of med  

My mother is a lawyer. she was able to have access to each and every of her exams. But thanks, no interest for me there  

[dana_2]

1 hour ago, OwnerOfTheTARDIS said:

Found it! Section 18.1 h) of the Ontario Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act states that "A head may refuse to disclose a record that contain... information relating to specific tests or testing procedures or techniques that are to be used for an educational purpose, if disclosure could reasonably be expected to prejudice the use or results of the tests or testing procedures or techniques"

They can liberally blank out their questions, I know what they were. I need access to my answers - so I can appeal the grade. I also need reasons for the grade as very well Baker Supreme Court expressed it - and yes, this is just another Constitutional rule.