28yr old Lab tech to MD? Do i stand a chance?

[MT_rat]

Hey everyone. I need guidance. I'm 28 and I fear the medical ship has sailed for me  

I have a DEC from Dawson  in biomedical lab technology (R score 30) - currently working in a hospital lab. I'm an immigrant that did 2 years of medical school in Europe and dropped out, travelled a lot and then came here. How much of a chance do I have to maybe do an undergrad in Biomedical Sciences (degree at Trois Rivières university) which allows me to use my DEC for credits and finish it in 2 years - if I have let's say a 3.8 GPA will I stand a chance for an interview for McGill med? 

I beat myself up for not trying during my DEC (low effort.. I had r score of 32.5 first 2 semesters) because I didn't need it for getting a job. I don't see it as a good idea to go back and do health science to boost my r score to minimum 34 to be considered for a cegep applicant (the more classes you take the less it will affect your r score).

What do you guys think 

[capoo]

5 minutes ago, MT_rat said:

Hey everyone. I need guidance. I'm 28 and I fear the medical ship has sailed for me  

I have a DEC from Dawson  in biomedical lab technology (R score 30) - currently working in a hospital lab. I'm an immigrant that did 2 years of medical school in Europe and dropped out, travelled a lot and then came here. How much of a chance do I have to maybe do an undergrad in Biomedical Sciences (degree at Trois Rivières university) which allows me to use my DEC for credits and finish it in 2 years - if I have let's say a 3.8 GPA will I stand a chance for an interview for McGill med? 

I beat myself up for not trying during my DEC (low effort.. I had r score of 32.5 first 2 semesters) because I didn't need it for getting a job. I don't see it as a good idea to go back and do health science to boost my r score to minimum 34 to be considered for a cegep applicant (the more classes you take the less it will affect your r score).

What do you guys think 

French med schools only look at your health science R score if I recall correctly (and not your overall R score), so if you have okay-ish R scores in your general classes (English, French, humanities and fitness) doing health science doesn't seem like a bad idea at all, granted you're okay with the idea of going to a French med school! 

[AB2]

5 minutes ago, keipop said:

French med schools only look at your health science R score if I recall correctly (and not your overall R score), so if you have okay-ish R scores in your general classes (English, French, humanities and fitness) doing health science doesn't seem like a bad idea at all, granted you're okay with the idea of going to a French med school! 

I'm not sure about the health sciences r-score bit...

 

Also, if he does a bac, why would his DEC grades still count? They would stop counting after a certain number of uni credits.

[MT_rat]

I want to go to McGill med i.e. english school. And yes I thought they won't care about your DEC r score if you have a bac no? 

I'm just terrified of going that road then realizing McGill won't even grant me an interview..

[Médicomage]

Yes exactly! It's only an R score per program + all classes needed as prereq, not overall. That's how the R score work: http://www.bci-qc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/CRC-Questions_Reponses-BCI-fevrier2018-1.pdf But anyway, you'll still need a few cegep classes. I'm pretty sure you don't have your physics and math classes. Check with McGill if you would be able to be considered as a Med-P, if you only do your missing prereq or if you do a second DEC in health science/natural science/pure sciences.

[capoo]

2 minutes ago, MT_rat said:

I want to go to McGill med i.e. english school. And yes I thought they won't care about your DEC r score if you have a bac no? 

I'm just terrified of going that road then realizing McGill won't even grant me an interview..

In that case, if you're only aiming for English med schools and nothing else, it's better to do a bachelor's degree because with a bachelor's you can also apply to other English med schools in Canada (e.g. Ontario where there's no OOP quota (except McMaster pre-interview), so your application is as good as an Ontarian's). And also, French med schools in Quebec are gradually taking more university students (but cegep students are still prioritized overall), so it doesn't hurt to do a bachelor's  

[MT_rat]

34 minutes ago, Médicomage said:

Yes exactly! It's only an R score per program + all classes needed as prereq, not overall. That's how the R score work: http://www.bci-qc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/CRC-Questions_Reponses-BCI-fevrier2018-1.pdf But anyway, you'll still need a few cegep classes. I'm pretty sure you don't have your physics and math classes. Check with McGill if you would be able to be considered as a Med-P, if you only do your missing prereq or if you do a second DEC in health science/natural science/pure sciences.

In the link you posted they said they'll take the 16 courses needed for your prerequisites to make up your R score - if you don't have 16, it will your global R score. I worry that even if i do health and boost up my r score for those specific classes, it's not 16 so they'll take my global and i'm sure i can't shoot up so much from 30 to at least 34.

 

You think they'd consider me for Med-P if I only do the prerequisites? won't they take my (bad) R score into account for that anyway? 

[MT_rat]

18 minutes ago, keipop said:

In that case, if you're only aiming for English med schools and nothing else, it's better to do a bachelor's degree because with a bachelor's you can also apply to other English med schools in Canada (e.g. Ontario where there's no OOP quota (except McMaster pre-interview), so your application is as good as an Ontarian's). And also, French med schools in Quebec are gradually taking more university students (but cegep students are still prioritized overall), so it doesn't hurt to do a bachelor's  

I don't wanna sound rigid  but i don't want to apply out of province. Since i'm 28 yrs old you can imagine i'm tied with things here in Quebec. I can maybe consider UdeM or U laval but i'd prefer in english (McGill).

Before I'd jump into a bachelor's I wish i'd know it would be a secure road to Med school i'd hate to waste years to be rejected after. 

[capoo]

2 hours ago, MT_rat said:

I don't wanna sound rigid  but i don't want to apply out of province. Since i'm 28 yrs old you can imagine i'm tied with things here in Quebec. I can maybe consider UdeM or U laval but i'd prefer in english (McGill).

Before I'd jump into a bachelor's I wish i'd know it would be a secure road to Med school i'd hate to waste years to be rejected after. 

I think the best way to decide is really to try and predict whether you're going to end up with a good Health R score while taking into account the R scores you've gotten in your general classes. From my cegep years at Dawson, I've noticed a general rule of thumb when it comes to R scores in science classes (so math/physics/chem/bio classes): grades around 85 tend to give you around 35-36, 90s tend to give you around 37-38, and 95s tend to give you around 40 (and a 100 yields something around 42-43). This was true for all of my science classes, so I think you can use those plus the R scores you've already got in your French/English/humanities/fitness classes to make a rough estimate of your final Health R-score and see if it's competitive enough for med... if you're able to get a 36 or more, it's a better idea to redo your cegep instead of a bachelor's because 1) it takes less time, 2) you'll be in competition with cegep students who have less life experience in general (so you should have an easier time standing out from the pack) and 3) Quebec med schools are well known to take more cegep students than university students. This is a huge problem at Sherbrooke (80%-20% cegep-uni), but it's less of a problem at other med schools (Laval for example is going to be 55%-45% cegep-uni starting from next year), so if you're not aiming for Sherbrooke along with Laval/Montreal/McGill this is not as important!

[MT_rat]

16 minutes ago, keipop said:

I think the best way to decide is really to try and predict whether you're going to end up with a good Health R score while taking into account the R scores you've gotten in your general classes. From my cegep years at Dawson, I've noticed a general rule of thumb when it comes to R scores in science classes (so math/physics/chem/bio classes): grades around 85 tend to give you around 35-36, 90s tend to give you around 37-38, and 95s tend to give you around 40 (and a 100 yields something around 42-43). This was true for all of my science classes, so I think you can use those plus the R scores you've already got in your French/English/humanities/fitness classes to make a rough estimate of your final Health R-score and see if it's competitive enough for med... if you're able to get a 36 or more, it's a better idea to redo your cegep instead of a bachelor's because 1) it takes less time, 2) you'll be in competition with cegep students who have less life experience in general (so you should have an easier time standing out from the pack) and 3) Quebec med schools are well known to take more cegep students than university students. This is a huge problem at Sherbrooke (80%-20% cegep-uni), but it's less of a problem at other med schools (Laval for example is going to be 55%-45% cegep-uni starting from next year), so if you're not aiming for Sherbrooke also this is not as important!

Overall R-score for general classes ends up at 31.19 for 13 courses.

I know Health science at Dawson is very competitive, I'm surprised 85 would get you a 35-36? My class at biomed was a very good so even with a subject finished at 93%, I only got a score of 31.

In health science I'd get a chance to do 11 classes. even with a r-score of 37 for all of them, my global final would be 33.8  who knew gen ed classes will come back to haunt me?

[Médicomage]

24 minutes ago, MT_rat said:

Overall R-score for general classes ends up at 31.19 for 13 courses.

I know Health science at Dawson is very competitive, I'm surprised 85 would get you a 35-36? My class at biomed was a very good so even with a subject finished at 93%, I only got a score of 31.

In health science I'd get a chance to do 11 classes. even with a r-score of 37 for all of them, my global final would be 33.8  who knew gen ed classes will come back to haunt me?

If you do a second DEC and you complete it, your R-Score will be your second DEC grades (so between 6 to 11 classes)+ the 14 general education grades from your first DEC (4 english, 2 complementary classes, 3 humanities, 3 fitness, 2 french)+your grades in the prereq (chemistry, biology) you did in your first DEC (if they are considered equivalent to general chemistry, chemistry of solutions, orgo and general biology). Also, consider that your current R-score was probably calculated according to the OLD way to calculate R-scores. So they will recalculate it according to the new calculation. Otherwise, it's not fair for us who did cegep classes before the change of calculation. When I went back to the cegep in 2019, I noticed that my overall R-score changed drastically compared to the one I got in 2008 and 2014 (like it went from 29 to 33.). Too bad for me, I already had waaaaay too many university credits for med schools to consider this new boosted R-score .

OH! There's another thing you'll have to consider for McGill: the prereqs expire after 8 years.

[MT_rat]

31 minutes ago, Médicomage said:

If you do a second DEC and you complete it, your R-Score will be your second DEC grades (so between 6 to 11 classes)+ the 14 general education grades from your first DEC (4 english, 2 complementary classes, 3 humanities, 3 fitness, 2 french)+your grades in the prereq (chemistry, biology) you did in your first DEC (if they are considered equivalent to general chemistry, chemistry of solutions, orgo and general biology). Also, consider that your current R-score was probably calculated according to the OLD way to calculate R-scores. So they will recalculate it according to the new calculation. Otherwise, it's not fair for us who did cegep classes before the change of calculation. When I went back to the cegep in 2019, I noticed that my overall R-score changed drastically compared to the one I got in 2008 and 2014 (like it went from 29 to 33.). Too bad for me, I already had waaaaay too many university credits for med schools to consider this new boosted R-score .

OH! There's another thing you'll have to consider for McGill: the prereqs expire after 8 years.

I went to Dawson fall 2016- graduated spring 2019. I think 1 year would be changed then? 

It's still unfair. I was in quite strong groups so even with high 90 averages there's only so much you can do when class average hovers at 80-85! 

do you think they'd consider me for med-p? I was thinking of asking the admissions office. 

[capoo]

16 minutes ago, MT_rat said:

I went to Dawson fall 2016- graduated spring 2019. I think 1 year would be changed then? 

It's still unfair. I was in quite strong groups so even with high 90 averages there's only so much you can do when class average hovers at 80-85! 

do you think they'd consider me for med-p? I was thinking of asking the admissions office. 

Nope, not at all unfortunately  but if you work hard in your cegep semesters (doable, because you don't have general classes which would otherwise take a huge chunk of your time), you can expect 38-39s for your science classes, and with a bit of luck with your teachers you can easily get high 39.xxx or low 40.xxx in some science classes (especially orgo/calc 2/E&M/linear, DM me for teacher recommendations!)

The catch is you must be a full-time cegep student in order to be eligible at McGill... you should definitely ask them about your situation, they'll be able to tell you whether your situation qualifies for med-P or you should do a bachelor's degree!

[MT_rat]

37 minutes ago, keipop said:

Nope, not at all unfortunately  but if you work hard in your cegep semesters (doable, because you don't have general classes which would otherwise take a huge chunk of your time), you can expect 38-39s for your science classes, and with a bit of luck with your teachers you can easily get high 39.xxx or low 40.xxx in some science classes (especially orgo/calc 2/E&M/linear, DM me for teacher recommendations!)

The catch is you must be a full-time cegep student in order to be eligible at McGill... you should definitely ask them about your situation, they'll be able to tell you whether your situation qualifies for med-P or you should do a bachelor's degree!

Thanks for all the replies!  I'll ask them exactly this question! And stand by for teacher recs  I hope it'll work i prefer the cegep route to be honest! 

[cotecc]

Je ne sais pas ce que ca veut dire concrètement, mais dans mon offre d'admission, ca dit Nous vous rappelons qu’en acceptant cette offre d’admission au doctorat de 1er cycle en médecine, vous attestez n’avoir jamais été exclu d’un programme de médecine (...)en raison d’une non-atteinte des objectifs pédagogiques...maybe it ll be wise to ask the admissions people since you seem to have started med school at some point

[ceelbe]

1 hour ago, Médicomage said:

OH! There's another thing you'll have to consider for McGill: the prereqs expire after 8 years.

Don’t they not expire anymore?

[Vons]

1 hour ago, Médicomage said:

OH! There's another thing you'll have to consider for McGill: the prereqs expire after 8 years.

I'm pretty sure they scrapped that requirement around the time they eliminated the NTP admissions stream (last year or the year before iirc). Either way, I haven't been able to find any suggestion of it on the current version of the admissions website. Is there a page you could point me to that says something about it?

[MT_rat]

1 hour ago, cotecc said:

Je ne sais pas ce que ca veut dire concrètement, mais dans mon offre d'admission, ca dit Nous vous rappelons qu’en acceptant cette offre d’admission au doctorat de 1er cycle en médecine, vous attestez n’avoir jamais été exclu d’un programme de médecine (...)en raison d’une non-atteinte des objectifs pédagogiques...maybe it ll be wise to ask the admissions people since you seem to have started med school at some point

It says if you were excluded because you failed, I never failed. I did 2 years of Med school and quit voluntarily. 

[Médicomage]

16 hours ago, wynndixie said:

I'm pretty sure they scrapped that requirement around the time they eliminated the NTP admissions stream (last year or the year before iirc). Either way, I haven't been able to find any suggestion of it on the current version of the admissions website. Is there a page you could point me to that says something about it?

Did they? If it’s true, it’s only starting from 2019-2020 cycle, because for the previous one, the prereq could still expire. 
 

Well good news for me then! I might be eligible again to McGill  

[MT_rat]

Update: I asked McGill admissions - they said my medlab program doesn't qualify for the Med-P program, they told me I need to do an undergrad degree done in 4 years not 3 (my Dec is a technical one not preuniversity) and also have the basic sciences (2xbio, 2xchem, 1xorg chem, 2xphysics) 

 

I find all of this ridiculously disheartening! The basic science concepts you need to know were extensively covered in all my classes I had specialized microbiology, molecular biology, genetics, anatomy, physiology, organic chem and biochemistry... 

Plus I'd have to waste 4 years to get a degree before they can even consider me for MD. A pre-uni DEC of 2 years is superior to my technical DEC  of 3 years  even if mine is integrated with clinical stages in all laboratories. Extensive knowledge of hematology, pathology, etc for nothing. 

I find the conditions so rigid... Why did they scrap non-traditional applications? 

With basic courses, 4 year undergrad and 4 year MD, I'd find myself a 1st year rezident at 37 years old... Way to kill a dream 

[capoo]

33 minutes ago, MT_rat said:

Update: I asked McGill admissions - they said my medlab program doesn't qualify for the Med-P program, they told me I need to do an undergrad degree done in 4 years not 3 (my Dec is a technical one not preuniversity) and also have the basic sciences (2xbio, 2xchem, 1xorg chem, 2xphysics) 

 

I find all of this ridiculously disheartening! The basic science concepts you need to know were extensively covered in all my classes I had specialized microbiology, molecular biology, genetics, anatomy, physiology, organic chem and biochemistry... 

Plus I'd have to waste 4 years to get a degree before they can even consider me for MD. A pre-uni DEC of 2 years is superior to my technical DEC  of 3 years  even if mine is integrated with clinical stages in all laboratories. Extensive knowledge of hematology, pathology, etc for nothing. 

I find the conditions so rigid... Why did they scrap non-traditional applications? 

With basic courses, 4 year undergrad and 4 year MD, I'd find myself a 1st year rezident at 37 years old... Way to kill a dream 

Did you ask them about the possibility to redo your DEC in health science? you can redo all your prereqs + cal 1/2/linear and graduate with a Health degree, just make sure that you'll be able to stay full-time during your studies (academic advising is able to help you out with that, and you can write an extenuating circumstances essay with your med-P application)!

[MT_rat]

1 hour ago, keipop said:

Did you ask them about the possibility to redo your DEC in health science? you can redo all your prereqs + cal 1/2/linear and graduate with a Health degree, just make sure that you'll be able to stay full-time during your studies (academic advising is able to help you out with that, and you can write an extenuating circumstances essay with your med-P application)!

I have but they didn't mention this in their reply! I will ask tomorrow. The one thing is that in their conditions you need to finish 6 courses per semester, i wouldn't have that many since my gen Ed courses are finished. So many variables haha 

[medium fundamental]

2 hours ago, MT_rat said:

Update: I asked McGill admissions - they said my medlab program doesn't qualify for the Med-P program, they told me I need to do an undergrad degree done in 4 years not 3 (my Dec is a technical one not preuniversity) and also have the basic sciences (2xbio, 2xchem, 1xorg chem, 2xphysics) 

 

I find all of this ridiculously disheartening! The basic science concepts you need to know were extensively covered in all my classes I had specialized microbiology, molecular biology, genetics, anatomy, physiology, organic chem and biochemistry... 

Plus I'd have to waste 4 years to get a degree before they can even consider me for MD. A pre-uni DEC of 2 years is superior to my technical DEC  of 3 years  even if mine is integrated with clinical stages in all laboratories. Extensive knowledge of hematology, pathology, etc for nothing. 

I find the conditions so rigid... Why did they scrap non-traditional applications? 

With basic courses, 4 year undergrad and 4 year MD, I'd find myself a 1st year rezident at 37 years old... Way to kill a dream 

Damn that's a tough situation...interesting background you got though

This won't be consolation, but for what it's worth: every cohort seems to have a handful of people >30 y.o. , there are some fellow older applicants out here ( * if * I was to be accepted in the next cycle, I'd be 39 when starting residency lmao)

Best of luck man

[Médicomage]

2 hours ago, MT_rat said:

I have but they didn't mention this in their reply! I will ask tomorrow. The one thing is that in their conditions you need to finish 6 courses per semester, i wouldn't have that many since my gen Ed courses are finished. So many variables haha 

If McGill accepts your second DEC (which I doubt now that I read this part of their website), you could always ask your API (individual academic advisor, I guess?) to add extra random classes to your schedule to meet the 6 classes/semester requirement. I was always able to do whatever I want with my schedule and course load in cegep by asking nicely to my API and providing proof of why I needed that. You could even redo your gen ed classes but they won't be funded by the government, so you'll have to pay the full price for them.

 

But that thing they told you about having to do an undergrad in 4 years is ridiculous. There's no bachelor degree in Quebec that are more than 3 years (except for like pharmacy, med and those professional degrees). So you'll have to go like in Ottawa to do a bachelor degree?!? And even there, they will credit you at least a year worth of classes, and you still won't have your 4 years because you will be able to finish this bachelor degree in 3 or 2 1/2 years.  I know that's what they say in their website, but I think they didn't think of the technical Dec+uni pathway.

also, you already have at least your 2 bios, because you have 2 101s classes in your DEC, which is the bio code.

To give you an idea, I never completed my pre-u DEC. I did one year, dropped off and went straight to OttawaU. I have technically a 120-credit bachelor degree, but I never studied 4 years in Ottawa U, because they gave me a year worth of credits just because I had cegep classes. So my bachelor degree was done in 3 years and I was eligible to McGill as soon as I did my prereq in sciences (in cegep, without completing my DEC).

 

 

[MT_rat]

11 hours ago, medium fundamental said:

Damn that's a tough situation...interesting background you got though

This won't be consolation, but for what it's worth: every cohort seems to have a handful of people >30 y.o. , there are some fellow older applicants out here ( * if * I was to be accepted in the next cycle, I'd be 39 when starting residency lmao)

Best of luck man

wow 39.. A good perspective to have is to think that you'll do your job until you're 60 years old let's say... that's changing 20 years in the workforce for you - it's still worth it, why not? 

Where did you apply? What's your background?