This years cutoffs

[Guest aneliz]

I think you are all on the right track....

 

Western, like many med schools, has struggled with how to effectively select the best candidates given the complex logistical limitations of the process, the great diversity of background in the applicant pool and the inherent weaknesses of the various 'evaluations' presented by applicants as proof of their accomplishments. You can argue that GPA isn't valid as a measure of 'worthiness to be accepted'...very true. You can't say that someone with a 3.80 GPA is necessarily better suited for medicine then someone with a 3.65 or even 3.0 GPA....Similarly, while many studies have shown a reliable correlation between MCAT scores and success on the national boards in the US, it is not a good use of this test to say that someone with a 10 in BS is inherently better qualified and suited to be a doctor then someone with a 9. But unfortunately, the line has got to be drawn somewhere...and believe me, it is a very difficult process to decide where that line is going to be. There is always somebody that is going to be disadvantaged. There will always be somebody that would make a fantastic doctor that is denied an interview because their GPA is 3.69 or when the cut is 3.70...and there will always be somebody that won't make such a great doctor that gets an interview solely because their GPA is 3.99. It's not fair...but there is precious little that you (or I) can do about it at this point. Schools struggle with these issues, but I have yet to see ANY med school that has devised an objective admissions policy that is absolutely fair to EVERYBODY....

 

As for why the writing sample went up rather than another section....

 

Western (and many schools) are very concerned that they need to find a way to select students who are good communicators. This mandate was developed through consultation with and survey of the 'clients of healthcare' or patients. When asked what was the major problem with doctors, they responded that they were poor communicators. In an effort to address this issue, an increased emphasis was put on things like the arts and social sci course requirements, the essay course requirement and the VR and WS sections of the MCAT. While the WS section may be 'subjectively evaluated' compared to the other sections, it is much less subjective then the evaluation of autobiographical sketches is (marked by med students, community members and faculty given as little as an hour or two of training and a printed sheet of guidelines) or the subjectiveness of undergrad term paper marking (done by disgruntled grad students who fit marking in, often at very odd hours). MCAT WS markers evaluate 1000's of essays...they know very well what a "1" essay looks like compared to a "6" and have received a lot of training...I am told that many have advanced degrees in either english or education. Your essays are read independently by 4 different people (2 per essay) and given a score between 1 and 6. If the two marks on one essay differ by more then a point, then a third reader (a supervisor) reads it. Then, all four marks out of six are added together and the total is converted onto the J-T scale. While the MCAT WS task is not a perfect evaluation of your writing ability, at least it is a STANDARDISED evaluation of ALL applicants writing ability on the SAME task. The WS is a very important component of the MCAT because it represents a method of 'objectively' evaluating the writing skills (written communication) of the applicant....for this reason it is valued more then your score in either the BS or PS sections and that is the reason that the WS increased to a Q rather than another section increasing to a 10.

 

Andrea

[Guest peachy]

Thank you for the comprehensive explanation, Andrea. It is much appreciated.

[Guest GordUW]

Hi, everyone

I just heard the new cutoffs for this year at UWO. I'm lucky to meet all of them. I once heard that once you get an interview at UWO, ur PS and BS scores on the MCAT no longer matter. Is this true? And Does UWO still use the 1/3 GPA, 1/3 MCAT, 1/3 interview scheme in their ranking? Thanks alot!

 

Have a great day!

I

[Guest Chieka101]

GordUW, I believe that after you've been invited for an interview, your app is reviewed in this manner: 25% MCAT, 25% GPA and 50% interview. I too am curious about the PS and BS scores, though.

 

Another thing, I heard that "before the final selection is made for interviews, the minimum MCAT scores will be raised further in at least one category." Any thoughts on this? It kind of scares me

 

Aneliz, as always, you've provided some very comprehensive answers. I'd just like to add: As to the WS requirements, I am becoming increasingly convinced that to do really well requires not only a strong grasp of the English language, but a decent knowledge of politics and rhetoric.

 

Many of the writing cues are politically loaded issues, and for those who have only a cursory knowledge of politics, it might be harder to do really well on the WS. Just some random thoughts.

 

C.

[Guest BCgirl]

chieka,

 

where did you hear that about the final selection for interviews? I would be screwed if they raised the WS any higher...

[Guest aneliz]

I don't know where that rumour came from but it is most definitely NOT TRUE!

 

The cut-offs for this year have been set and are available on the website. THEY WILL NOT CHANGE!!!! I can absolutely guarantee this....the admissions committee (the only body with the authority to set or alter cut-offs) WILL NOT MEET AGAIN BEFORE INVITES ARE SENT OUT! If you meet the cuts as posted DON'T WORRY! This rumour about them increasing again after being posted is not true and NEVER HAS BEEN. I have NEVER heard of published cuts increasing after they were posted. Once the cuts are set, approved and posted on the web, they are official and will not change for that application year. They likely WILL change for next year though because each year the cuts are dependent on the quality of the applicant pool. Is this where the confusion came from? I would be interested in knowing where this rumour came from....any of you that have heard it feel like sharing?

 

As for the use of the MCAT at UWO:

 

1. You must meet the cut-offs in each individual category to be eligible for an interview

 

2. After this point (ie passing the cuts) I have heard (although not confirmed at this point) that the MCAT portion of your overall admission decision will be determined with only the WS and VR sections...this makes sense given UWO's focus on selecting students with a strong and proven ability to communicate....This is unconfirmed information so don't treat it as absolute truth....

 

3. Last year, and the year before, the weighting after you got an interview was 25% GPA, 25% MCAT and 50% interview. I had heard the 1/3, 1/3,1/3 split as well and as far as I know it WAS used in the past but has not been used in several years. The new weighting is the 25/25/50 formula.

 

Any more questions, keep them coming!

[Guest JSS02]

Gord, It's true (well, in past years) that once you reach the interview stage, the only components of your MCAT score that will be considered in their final decision will be the writing sample and verbal reasoning (25% in total). Your GPA will count for 25% and the interview 50%. It used to be 1/3 each, but this changed as of two years ago.

 

Chieka101, where did you hear about the scores being raised further? I've never heard of it happening before. If you were told by anyone other than TimmyMax/Aneliz (our student admissions reps) or someone in the UWO admissions office, then you shouldn't take it seriously...

[Guest Chieka101]

That info, my dear, is from last year's rejection letter.

 

Hopefully things have changed this year. UWO meds - PLEASE CONFIRM!!!! :eek

 

Raising the WS score even higher would be proof of insanity. :rollin

 

C.

[Guest Chieka101]

I guess all the UWO meds were posting as I was. Thanks for the clarification (I am sorry for adding to anyone's anxiety, but I was worried... :b ).

 

Here is the quote from the letter (as official as it gets):

 

"We anticiapte that before the final selection is made for interviews, the minimum MCAT scores will be raised further in at least one category."

 

But I guess I shouldn't stress about it, right? I'll know soon enough...

 

C.

[Guest aneliz]

That was in a rejection letter that YOU actually saw? I am having a hard time believing this....did the owner of said letter meet last year's posted cuts and then receive that letter?

 

I can't either confirm or deny the content of the rejection letter - I personally have never read one from UWO and Darla is on vacation this week. I will look into this but, I have NEVER heard of this happening and I don't know how it possibly could at this point given that any cut-off decision must be approved by the admissions committee and as far as they are concerned, the cuts have been set, and published and are written in stone for this year. (Believe me, I was at their meeting last Friday.)

 

Western does only one round of interview invites and pre-interview rejections....if you meet the cuts, you should get an interview...if you don't, you will be rejected. Period. Interestingly enough, the cut-offs are set to limit the number of people that are invited for interviews. Having carefully played that numbers game last week and achieving the desired result, I would see no reason (nor opportunity) for the cuts to be altered at this point.

 

Call admissions if you are really concerned about this.

[Guest Chieka101]

I just got off the phone with admissions. The lady said that the scores on the site will not go up. In previous years, changes may have been made to the minimum cut-offs, between what she called a preliminary assessment and a final assessment. This year, only a final assessment is being done. So, I guess everyone can breathe easy now.

 

C.

[Guest aneliz]

Sounds reasonable. Just shows that the only truly official information comes directly from the admissions office.

 

Rules and procedures are likely to change over time....I can only truly comment on what I know to be true for this year and what I remember to have been true last year when I applied....as for what happened historically, I am not going to be much help....

[Guest UWOMED2005]

I might be of some, but not much, more use historically. As JSS02 pointed out, for the 2004 class the final formula was 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. In fact, they only changed that policy to 25/25/50 DURING my application cycle so it changed from the time of my application to the time of my admission. And for MY year they counted the WS and VR sections ONLY for the MCAT 25%, but I'm not sure about for 2004 or 2006.

 

As for this policy of raising the MCAT after the interviews, I sincerely don't believe they did that for my year. We don't really discuss GPAs or MCATs from undergrad, but I KNOW there were people who right at the 3.60 GPA cutoff used for our year, and I've heard comments suggesting the same for the MCAT, so I sincerely doubt this was the case for my year. Hearing about this scenario really surprised me - my best guess is that the traditional scenario of using 25/25/50 (or 33/33/33) resulted in a tie between NUMEROUS people such that they couldn't use other criteria to differentiate. But I see that as an unlikely occurrence so I don't think anyone should worry whatsoever!

[Guest thmper]

Hi all,

 

Personally I think the WS is a poor indication of your writing skills. I hate writing essays and I have done poorly on my WS. I took a prep course, and all they taught me was how to fool the readers. Use lots of spacing, making sure I write 3 full pages and use more scientific examples since the people that read the essays are likely to come from an arts background. I took the mcat again and got a Q on writing sample. I don't think my english writing skills improved much over the 3 months I preped for MCAT. ( and it shows... :\ )

 

just my thoughts ...that's all!

[Guest aneliz]

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion...and while it is far from perfect...at least it is a more objective assesment of your writing then a current med student's opinion of your PIF...

[Guest Chieka101]

Pardon the ignorance, but what is a PIF?

 

C.

[Guest UWOMED2005]

PIF = Personal Information Form

 

It's part of the Queen's application and kind of like an extended autobiographical sketch.

[Guest Chieka101]

Thanks UWOMED2005 - once again, this board has enlightened me.

 

Anybody have an idea why UWO doesn't request PIFs (very opened-ended question, I know )?

 

C.

[Guest TimmyMax]

Hey,

 

The MCAT writing sample requirement is enough of a test/demonstration of your writing proficiency, so it "takes the place" of a PIF in the eyes of UWO.

While it may seem to be a very artificial assessment of writing skills, and there is obviously some inherent subjectivity to it, it does have the advantage of being marked by completely objective parties whose job it is to mark such samples and the scoring criteria is the same across the board for all candidates. Every candidate has the opportunity to score perfectly so long as they fulfill the criteria for such an assessment. This does eliminate (or at the very least normalize) the inherent subjectivity grading such a thing as a writing submission entails.

Besides, would you rather have your future determined by some random med student who doesn't want to be reading your submission in the first place and could honestly care less whether you got in or not? I personally would not want my PIF/essay/writing sample score to be influenced in any way by frivolous things such as whether that person lost his keys that day and is taking out his frustration on med school candidates.

There is a predefined criteria to writing sample grading that is the same for all candidates involved. Therein lies the strength of assessment via the MCAT WS method rather than 133 med students each with their own criteria for what determines an effectively written submission.

 

Best of luck!

Timmy

[Guest aneliz]

Not to mention the logistical nightmare of having to MARK 1600 written submissions from applicants....UWO felt that the potential insight gained through this method of evaluation was not too great in comparison to the incredible effort needed to do it....

[Guest therealcrackers]

Witness the orderly, organized fashion in which Western interview dates are sent out, easy-to-read cutoffs, lots of notice given, etc. compared to another, larger school whose name I simply cannot recall--- :rolleyes

[Guest Chieka101]

TimmyMax, I agree about the problem of the grumpy med student, but I've never really considered PIFs as just a sampling of writing. I mean, I advocate them as a means for the school to know a little about an applicant before the interview. I do see the benefits of the closed file interview, though. (Spoken like a true fence-sitter) Hmmm....

 

But yeah, I agree, UWO's admissions process is pretty cut and dry, nothing like that other big school that therealcrackers can't remember the name of

 

C.