Why are premeds sometimes snobs?

[Guest byjude]

More so than most other undergraduate students, it seems like snobbery is much more prevalent amongst premed students. This has always seemed ironic to me, because I would think that the ideal physician is the complete opposite, open-minded and friendly. It's such a cliche that many premeds state they wish to become a doctor in order to help people, but meanwhile they spend their time sabotaging the academic chances of their classmates, and generally trying their hardest not to help anyone outside of volunteering activities.

 

I'm by no means saying this is a rule, and fortunately, many med students are the kind of warm, compassionate people the system should be selecting. But, a question for philosophical debate here, why is snobbery so prevalent in general amongst premeds? Is it simply because of the competitive nature of admissions, or is it something more? Is it reflective of the economical background of premed students? Or is it cultural? Do many snobbish premeds become more friendly once they've been admitted to medical school, where the competition is less fierce? Is this is any way a useful trait for a physician (one might argue a bit of arrogance is crucial for effective critical thinking and academic drive as a clinician-scientist; or is probably more predominant in surgeons than in GPs).

 

It would be interesting to hear your comments on this.

[Guest Gill0927]

It's funny you should ask this question...it got me thinking about my undergrad, and how the people changed when I changed schools and programs.

 

I started at U of T in human bio (totally pre-med area, EXTREMELY competitive -- at least when I was there), and a lot of the people were exactly how you described, and then when I switched to U of O to psychology (not as many, but still a fair few people planning on meds, and not as competitive) the people, even the pre-meds, were so much nicer and not as standoffish and competitive. So from that I may conclude that it's the competition that makes premeds act the way they do...just a guess from my experience.

 

The other question to ask is if this is a trait that people notice in pre-meds only, or also in people in med school? Because if it's only the premeds, we can actually deduce that med schools are doing a good job with admissions, so as not to accept the people who are really snobby, etc.

 

Just my 2 cents...

 

Gill:b

[Guest chemgirl]

Why are english majors sometimes snobs?

Why are graduate students sometimes snobs?

Why are rich people sometimes snobs?

Why are poor people sometimes snobs?

Why are people who shop at Safeway sometimes snobs?

Why are cashiers at Safeway sometimes snobs? (that's a rant for another occasion, needless to say I just had a horrible experience there!)

 

A proportion of the population will always exhibit the sorts of traits we associate with "snobbery". Having gone to school with and TA'd many premeds, in my experience there is no larger proportion of people that I would think acted snobby towards me than I would see in any other subsegment of the population. I actually never encountered the saboteurs, and I generally found many helpful people among me who were interested in medicine, and I tried to be one myself. I can't speak to anyone else's experience, however, so fire away if you disagree with me!

 

And yikes, I hope arrogance is not a crucial trait in clinician scientists, or I'm up $#*& creek without a paddle! I prefer to classify myself as "assertive!" :lol

[Guest byjude]

I think that certain schools and certain programs boast more than their fair share of snobs, as was suggested above.

 

And as to whether or not med schools actually screen out standoffish applicants - this is a good suggestion, but I was also thinking that perhaps some people change when they get accepted to medicine (ie, either they mature with age, or they relax their super-competitive behaviour in a P/F or H/P/F grading system)

[Guest cutieyellow]

I don't agree that premeds are more 'snobbish' as other 'categories' of students. It's just that you notice the snobbish ones more and therefore, associate it to the fact that they aspire to be physicians.

 

There are people who are competitive in every aspects of life, in every single program, everywhere you go. You just won't notice them as much, whereas here, it's like you're expecting to see it in premeds, therefore, more prone to seeing it. Just my opinion anyhow.

 

CY

[Guest Ollie]

My undergrad program was pretty choc full of premedders, and I didn't find it to be particularly snobby or competitive. Neither were the people who were members of the pre-med society (those who you might expect to be the most keen). So as others have said, you find snobby and competitive people everywhere, and it has more to do with your perception and reaction to it than anything else.

[Guest DonaldKaufman]

Ollie,

 

I've always kind of wondered this, since my school didn't have one, but what exactly is a 'premed society'? The name seems a little presumptuous if you ask me...:lol

[Guest Ollie]

DonaldKaufman:

 

Pre-med society was a student club for people "hoping" to go into meds. They organized lectures by physicians, volunteering opportunities, social and sporting events, and the always popular "meet the dean of admissions". I was a member, but wasn't super involved cause I couldn't make the meetings (I don't think I even listed it as an activity in my apps).

[Guest s sadry]

at u of t for instance ...in my political science class there were plenty of "snobs" who boasted about how much they knew about hte world and international relations (when they really knew very little)....

 

yet with my science classmates...snobbery deduced to saving a seat in con hall (for someone who never showed up??) or this one girl who refused to give a pencil to one of my frineds before a test.

 

i think you will find these ppl everywhere. luckily...they are a minority (well..i'd like to think so.) i think this kind of behaviour is the result of insecurity.. maybe ppl feel that for every person they help out, thats one less spot in med school for them. if that makes any sense..i can't get into their heads. but thats what i think they're thinking.

 

its silly reasoning..becasue there are thousands upon thousands of applicants. letting someone use a pencil, telling someone an equation, or letting someone sit next to you instead of searchign for a seat for 10 mins...IS NOT going to make you lose yoru seat in med school. i wish those ppl would grow up and do well for themselves..instead of 'relatively' well.

[Guest bruhaha]

heh, I remember my very first science lab at university. I came late and was paired with the only person left. Who politely explained to me that that she intended to apply to medical school so if I'd better not screw with her marks and if I made a single mistake she'd dump me. I was really tired; I broke two test tubes and buffered the wrond solution.

 

Getting dumped by a girlfriend is bad but getting dumped by a lab partner is 10x more insulting. That sucked, but I'm still going to med school where I imagine I will break many more test tubes (shaky hands!)

[Guest s sadry]

lol bruhahaha that is such a funny but true story...

 

you knwo you're with a bunch of premeds when on the first lab everyone's eyes are scanning the room looking for a "smart" partner.

[Guest DonaldKaufman]

Ollie,

Thanks for the info. I'm not sure if such a thing exists at any Maritime schools. I still find the term 'premed' kind of assuming. I plan on starting a pre Prime Minister society next year.

 

-DK

[Guest RageoftheDragon]

Sweet! Pre-PM, eh? You gonna get together and train to further presidentialize the system and make patronage appointments? Sounds fun to me!!

 

I'm sure Kosmo would regail you with this tale were he more available, as he's faced the annoyance of arrogant premeds head on before, but he seems not around, so here goes:

 

Kosmo had a partner for physics labs who would grab all the data as soon as the experiment was done, and not share a single calculation or thought with him, while trying to get his help with anything he might have already figured out. Her reason: wanted med, and wasn't gonna help anyone. Well, when the applications went through and interviews were over, Kosmo, a very helpful and generally good guy, got into med, while his partner completely failed to. Karma anyone?

 

RotD

[Guest coastal79]

Unfortunately, "those" kind of people do still get in sometimes. My buddy and I practiced together for interviews, and he told me about a girl he knew who was also to interview this year. Before she found out that he got an interview she was nice and helpful, however, as soon as she heard that he was going to be competition, she shut down, didn't talk to him, and wouldn't help him at all with interviews. While she did get in, it was the fourth year in a row that she had interviewed at the school, so at least the screening process had worked the first three times!

 

Personally, I didn't encounter any premed snobbishness as an undergrad. I was in Arts though, and actually never knew anyone else who was premed!

[Guest marbledust]

What I remember about some of my pre-med science classes is also of lab partners hording the data and hiding journal articles, specimens, etc. Mind you this was only a very small number of people, and included pre-meds and pre-dents. But they were very upfront about why they did this - they needed to get the highest grades. I don't know if this worked - I haven't come across any of them at U of C meds.

 

Apparently this happens also in law. I used to always have problems finding things in the U of C law library. Then a librairian told me they constantly have problems with people "hiding" books, ripping articles out of journals, and that sort of thing in that library.

 

Lawyers :lol

[Guest cutieyellow]

Wow, your lab-partner horror stories are quite interesting!

 

I guess i've been lucky, as i've never encountered people like that... ! Luckily, i do believe in karma, thus one must always be careful

 

CY

[Guest DonaldKaufman]

CY,

 

You haven't encountered anyone like that? Perhaps that means you ARE that person!

 

:lol

 

-DK

[Guest noncestvrai]

I was in CEGEP, and I was paired with a female twin from "upper class" in a physics lab. She was just inapt at experiments, I was doing all the data acquisition and analysis, and she had the nerve of telling me how I did not deserve to be in medschool since I was from a working class family...

 

I think her sister was accepted and not her...if she comes to see me I will treat her, as any good working class doctor.

 

noncestvrai

[Guest therealcrackers]

Wonderful attitude, noncestvrai. Good luck.

[Guest RageoftheDragon]

Man, I'da told her she could kiss my working class ass. Geez, I've heard of snobby, but what kind of outmoded caste system is she adhering to?

 

I forgot to mention above my own method to choosing partners: pick the crazy drunks/people who don't care. They generally will do the work if you help organize it, and I usually got good results. Takes a bit of delegating, and occasionally taking over the whole experiment if they're really out of it (hungover), but meh, helped me avoid any snobby evidence/results hoarders. And found some good parties! Hehehe.

 

RotD

[Guest cutieyellow]

Hehe DK,

 

Maybe i was! lol. Actually, i hope that i wasn't. And all my lab partners are still my friends, so perhaps i wasn't that bad. Anyhow, let's me live in my fantasy world and see everyone as being super nice and friendly and helpful.

 

Snob? What's that? lol.

 

CY

[Guest physiology]

I don't find pre-med people to be snobby, but very anally retentive. They ask extremely detailed questions that no one needs to know the answer to.

 

Or they have this "presence" - it's like this unmistakable air of confidence that allows them to ramble on and on. It's the gift of the gab for them, but the curse of the gab if you're sitting in a room with them during a small-group discussion (hope that this isn't indicative of what is to come during my PBL sessions)

 

Hmm...strange, but it sounds a bit like me. But anyway, I digress...