Biochemistry course at UVic

[Guest iownhonda]

Is it true that biochem 300 at uvic is more difficult than its counterpart at UBC?

 

If this is the case, should I attend the summer school over there and take the presumably easier biochem course? I am asking this because, some people I know have mentioned in the past that biochem 300 at UVic is an extremely difficult course to achieve a good grade.

 

Also I've witnessed many individuals "running away" from UVic to take the easier path (i.e. ubc).

 

Is this a myth or a fact? This one guy I know also informed me that the biochemistry program at UVic is insanely challenging that I should stay away from it no matter how high my I.Q. level is. What are you guys' opinions on this? Is this guy gay?

[Guest thatuvicguy]

"Is this guy gay?"

 

While I'm not sure about your friend's sexual orientation or state of happiness, I can share a few insights on the UVic vs. UBC biochemistry front...

 

Having been a UVic student for far too long, I have witnessed literally dozens of friends fail, barely pass or last minute drop BIOC 300 at UVic. These were not lazy or intellectually-challenged people, the course just rocked their world. The professor (Buckley) is notorious for being an allround party-pooper who has unreasonable expectations relative to his teaching ability and course content. If literally half the class drops and then half of the remaining class fails...well there can't be that many inept students in one class. A caveat: I have NOT taken this course with him. I avoided it all costs and so this is all second hand information but trust me, they may as well publish a handbook on this guy and his course. Even Dr. Sherwood at UVic (on UBC Med Ad Comm) told me that going the UBC route was a very good option.

 

I suppose I have "run away" from UVic since I am currently taking BIOC 300 at UBC but I prefer to think of it as adaptive on my part since I really only need the course for UBC Med and unfortunately grades matter. BIOC 300 at UBC is not a walk in the park either but having spoken to a few UVic folk who had done upto half of the UVic course, the UBC version is much more reasonable.

 

I'm not sure where you're at with your education but if you're not doing a Biochem degree and it can fit in your plans, consider taking the course at UBC. Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

Cheers,

thatuvicguy

[Guest northernjo]

I completely agree with thatuvicguy. I know numerous people (some of them Biochem majors) who have failed, dropped out, contemplated switching majors, etc. over UVic's BIOC 300. I didn't take it, but I can tell you from experience that I found the final for UBC's BIOC 300 easier than UVic's BIOC 200 (which I did take, although it isn't a pre-req for UBC's course which is another plus!).

 

Of course, if you are a Biochem major this isn't an option (I've heard they don't accept it because it's considered to "health science based", ie. waaaay more interesting).

 

One of the best parts about UBC's summer course for me was that we covered the material in 6 weeks as opposed to 8 months. However that isn't the ideal learning format for everyone. Also, I enjoyed getting to know the UBC campus a little bit since I knew I'd be applying to UBC med. But it is quite disruptive to move to Vancouver for a short while if you have a summer job or are planning on writing the MCAT that August.

 

There are lots of things to consider, but if your main concern is what mark you get out of it, then UBC is absolutely the route to go. Have fun!

 

northernjo

[Guest natman]

Yes Biochem 300 is supposed to be a lot easier at UBC than UVic, but I don't think UVic's Biochem 300 is quite as bad as people think. Buckley can be a bit of a jerk, but he is a very clear and straightforward prof who tells you exactly what you need to know for the exams (although it is a lot). He also knows that the majority of the class is aiming for med school and as he says "Most of you are trying to be doctors, that's why I'm tough on you and ask you to name all points when I ask a question, not just a few of them. When I'm on the operating table in 10 years and one of you is working on me, I want the person who knew all 10 items on a list, not 5 out of ten" and he kind of has a point. I just finished Biochem 300 at UVic this spring and I did allright (B+, which I was happy with). Most of my friends that took the course had no trouble passing and doing well (2 of them got A+s and 2 got As, and only of my friends 1 dropped out). It all depends on how much work you are willing to put in. Dr. Paetkau's midterm for the 2nd term is the one you gotta watch out for. I personally don't think it's worth it if you have to move to Vancouver to take the course and lose out on summer income. If you're already over there and have the time to spare then it may be worth it. One more thing...although I'm not sure if it's true, I have heard that UBC looks unfavourably on students who do their degree at UVic and go to UBC for Biochem 300 (they know exactly why students do it and will sometimes ask for an explanation) though this may just be a rumour. Anyways, bottom line...Biochem 300 is tough, and there are tons of figures and structures to know, but it's totally possible to do well if the effort is put in.

[Guest Tyler]

I agree too, I finished Bioc. 300 at Uvic last year and it wasnt too bad. They had switched from a 7 or 8 teachers teaching it to only 3 now so there is more time to figure out what they want, and to get their style down. As long as you figure out what each of the teachers expects of you then it really saves a lot of time for studying. But it was a lot of work, dont get me wrong, im just saying its doable and you can get a decent mark (i came out with an A-).

I have heard from others though that the UBC course is much easier, so if you can i would do that, but if its going to really disrupt your life then don't sweat it and take the Uvic course.

Tyler

 

ps. you can check out what Dr. Buckly, the first term prof, looks like on the Uvic homepage http://www.uvic.ca

He can be intimidating

[Guest iownhonda]

Thanks for the replies guys.

 

I am a bit surprised to hear that biochemistry 200 final is more difficult than the UBC's biochemistry 300 final exam. Isn't biochemistry 200 suppose to be a cakewalk compared to biochem 300 here at UVic?

[Guest Biochem3010]

I would even think UBC's Biol 201 is harder than UBC's Bioc 300. I think there is a big discrepancy in course coding & descriptions. Bioc 300 at Uvic could be different from UBC Bioc 300. I just took a quick look at the material & exams for Uvic’s Bioc 300 online & can see that their 1st midterm is very similar to content with UBC’s Biol 201 & the rest of the material/content is almost in comparison to UBC’s Bioc 303 not 300 with some stuff taken out. It doesn’t look all too bad. The exams are a year old, so it shouldn’t be too different. Unless I guess the difficulty stems from the fact that Uvic only has one 3rd year biochem course available to fulfill Med prereqs which is Bioc 300 & which Uvic biochem majors must also take. UBC has Bioc 300, 302, & 303. If UBC only had Bioc 303 meant only for bioc majors & not those other ones, we would just have the same problem that Uvic has anyways. Then those Uvic ppl won’t run over here to take biochem. Yet again, if enough effort is put into anything, it shouldn’t be too bad.

 

The Buckly guy doesn’t sound too bad. Profs with high egos have higher expectations. It reminds me of this 1st year chem prof who actually preaches students that trying is not good enough & that you have to work very very hard in his class. Also he always yelled at his students for asking him questions and yelled back to them to run home & cry to their moms. No one dared to talk to him & was later probated, but he’s still teaching. He in fact has a very high ego, & thinks he deserves to win the Nobel Prize (someday) cuz he invented ftNMR & some other NMR techniques. UBC chem ppl would definitely know who I’m talking about & the significance of his research.

[Guest Katie MB]

I also just finished Bioc 300 at UVic and found it completely fine. although many people had issues with Buckley, I found him easy to ask questions and helpful. Vern Paetkau teaches the spring term and is a really great guy too. Basically, the problem is that the standard is a lot higher for this course since you have to get a B or maybe a B+ or higher in Biochem 200 to get into the course. You also can not get an A+ in this course simply by memorizing - you must understand the concepts.

 

Just a word of warning about taking Bioc 300 at UBC: Be prepared to have an answer of why you did that if your whole degree is from UVic. Apparently a couple of people had been asked in their interview why they had done that. The people going over applications are aware of the difficulty at UVic and apparently take that into consideration.

[Guest thatuvicguy]

Wow, what a hot topic! Great to have people on both sides of this.

 

With regards to how UBC views UVic students taking BIOC 300 at UBC I have heard the opposite (ie. that they don't think twice about it) but who knows. Maybe it's like this (read: speculation): do well in BIOC 300 at UBC or UVic and you're golden, obtain mediocre results in the UVic version and perhaps they know how tough it is and will overlook it given other evidence of scientific competency, do @#%$ in UBC's version and maybe they start questioning your intellectual capacity for the material (especially if you've "run away" from UVic to take it).

 

If you're up to the challenge and willing to work hard, as others here have demonstrated, no doubt you can succeed in the UVic BIOC 300. If you know you will have a hard time with the material, the rest of your courseload is tough, you work part-time, volunteer tons etc. etc. you may want to consider the UBC route. Either way, that one decision is unlikely to make or break you.

 

Cheers,

thatuvicguy

[Guest northernjo]

I could be wrong, but I understood that this previous application year the interviewers no longer had access to our academic records. So it would be unlikely that they'll continue to ask about why you took BIOC 300 at UBC. I wasn't asked this year. Also, the UBC site states that the difficulty level of marking a course is not taken into consideration (too subjective) when your academics are reviewed. However, maybe an A at UVic would push you ahead of an otherwise equal candidate during the final review.

 

If you were wondering, the reason I thought the UBC BIOC300 final was easier than the UVic BIOC200 was the level of predictability. While there was a lot more info to learn in BIOC300 I found the final questions to be at least somewhat predictable, where at UVic there were some pretty out-there unpredictable ones. But that was just my experience with it.

 

I'm sure you'll figure out which course suits your lifestyle and goals the best.

 

northernjo

[Guest physiology]

Hello Biochem3010,

 

Is this Comisarow?

 

Apparently one year, a female student's cell phone went off in class and in anger, he made a rude, sexually implicit comment towards her in front of the whole class!

 

Back on topic, I doubt bioc 300 at UVic is any harder/easier than biochem at UBC. It depends on the prof, it depends on your liking of the subject, and so many other subjective factors the courses are impossible to compare.

[Guest Biochem3010]

Yep, thats the guy...

 

My chem 333 prof Dr. Lermer told me that the guy always brag that he should win the Nobel Prize & so on & how he was able to invent ftNMR. It is NMR that is more accurate and quick without going into the details.

 

Oh yeah, also another high ego tough person was my chem 313 (Advanced Org. Chem) prof who doesn't like ppl talking. One day, someone was like just whispering, & the prof yelled at him to say his name & to come up to the front the class & talk to him in front of everyone but he didn't. Instead he went up to his seat & talked directly to him that he shouldn't talk at all & that he threatened to scale down his mark. He is bright, a Michael Smith Scholar. However, he is notorious for knowing almost everyone's name in class & yelling at his grad students. He is quite intimidating in person.

[Guest Jazz]

Hi Biochem 3010,

 

I was the guy he yelled at . i remember we had quite the Chem313 final that year, my head was hurting afterwards.

[Guest Biochem3010]

Really... it's just such a small world now...

 

Now i know another lucky 3rd year that got in to med besides physiology in person. So many were interviewed this year, & i only know 2 that i got in. So Jazz, you know of any other that did in our program? & how did you get in if you don't mind sharing? It seems extracurriculars totally outweighted academics in who got in this year.

 

I didn't think the final was too bad since it was in a way more doable, but i thought the midterm was pretty bad. I think he scaled everyone like 30% since almost everyone failed his infamous exam. :lol I hear he does that for his 4th year enzyme kinetics course too which he encouraged us to take.

[Guest Jazz]

Oops, it wasn't me then, I actually grad in 2003.

[Guest mitchie41]

Are you sure Comisarow discovered\developed Fourier Transform NMR?? The one where you use Partial Differential Equations(Fourier Transforms) to clear up NMR spectroscopy images.

 

Because that would be an VERY BIG find.

[Guest Biochem3010]

Well guess Perrin had another victim then. Likes to make examples out of ppl. You gotta love his sick jokes, taunting ppl to dance in front of everyone if he hears a cell phone, strange hygiene, & his weird exams. One time he was eating a sour apple & writing on the board with chalk using the same hand.

 

To be more specific, Comisarow is heavily working now on ion trap & FT-Mass spectrometry using ion cyclotron resonance based on laser desorption ionization techniques. It quickens the process & enhances the resolution of mass spec to a new level.

If you're interested in this stuff, take chem 311. Chem 333 talks about it in a general sense with a lot of NMR from Lermer.

[Guest iownhonda]

I asked this question on a different thread and no one was responding. I am hoping that you guys answer this question for me since you guys are veterans in this field.

 

The overlooked question:

 

I have a question for you intelligent people regarding the suitable application time for general pre-meds. What year do pre-meds apply to med school normally? If I submit my application in my fourth year, would the people at the admissions office see the course grades I achieved from my fourth year and take that into consideration when determining my admission?

 

Or do they neglect my fourth year marks and only assess the academic performance of my first 3 years of university?

 

Lastly, do the admissions officers at USask favour giving seats to people with bachelors degree more than the people without? In other words, do they despise non-graduates like all the other institutions found in the North America?

---------

 

Oh by the way I am entering my second year this fall.

[Guest physiology]

I asked this question on a different thread and no one was responding.

 

Probably because you posted this question under the "OOP waitlist should move by 1" thread, and not in its own dedicated thread.

 

Or do they neglect my fourth year marks and only assess the academic performance of my first 3 years of university?

 

Yes. However, if you are taking pre-reqs in your 4th year, they will make sure you completed them.

 

And if you do gain acceptance sometime in late spring, and your 4th year marks make your average drop by 5%, then your acceptance will be subjected to further review by the adcom.

 

Lastly, do the admissions officers at USask favour giving seats to people with bachelors degree more than the people without?

 

Who knows? Ask the admissions office directly or post this in the USask forum. I suspect not though. However, older applicants (4th year and up) may have a leg up in terms of more life experience and extracurriculars, thus giving them an advantage in the interview.

 

In other words, do they despise non-graduates like all the other institutions found in the North America?

 

"Despise" isn't really the right word. By North American institutions, you mean AMERICAN universities because most Canadian universities will consider 3rd year applicants (except for Dal, Memorial, and McGill).

 

What are you guys' opinions on this? Is this guy gay?

 

Being a public forum that caters to all people, you do have to watch what you say and consider your choice of words, particularly if you want to enter the field of medicine.

[Guest seonagh]

edited to remove post to wrong thread

[Guest iownhonda]

I am sorry if I offended you by using the word gay. I have nothing against homosexual individuals just to make this clear to everyone (and the guys isn't gay) and I appreciate you for answering my questions in detail.

 

If you want me to delete the word gay from my first post, I will do that. Just let me know physiology.

 

I have a question about being a doctor with regards to alcohol. This is not meant to be a joke but it has been a question that I've been asking myself for a long time.

 

When you become a doctor are you expected not to consume alcohol (e.g. beers)? And what if you do? should you be ashamed for doing such a thing?

 

I don't drink very much but some of my friends (also pre-meds) do.

[Guest lex]

Honda,

 

Being a doctor doesn't mean that you have abstain from alcohol. It might not be a bad idea to stay away from drinking on the job and while on call though - I hear it may be frowned upon...

 

Seriously though, as long as drinking (or any activity for that matter) is not adversely affecting other aspects of your life, there won't be a problem. No need to feel ashamed.

 

And I think you should understand why a number of people on this board have been taken aback by your initial post. You took a word used to describe sexual orientation - I'm assuming that the original reference wasn't a state of happiness - and altered its meaning in order to express a derogatory sentiment. It'd be no different if someone used your mom or dad's name as a substitute for doing something stupid. Like physiology said, if you want to practice medicine, you'll have to be aware of how your word choice may be perceived by those around you.

[Guest Apna]

My own experience with BIOC 300 at UVic was OK... came out with an A. But I'd be lying if I said it was easy... I definitely worked harder for this course than for any other during my four years there. Ideally, this course should be taken during an otherwise relatively slack year, but even if it's not, a lot of hard work will do you good. No one should be afraid of busting their rump for eight months... future doctors especially!

 

Paetkau and Olafson were very helpful and reasonable. Buckley can act pompous and intimidating, but he knows what he's doing. After the course is over, you can look back and see what a good prof he really is. Romaniuk's section was the most ludicrous in my opinion, but even HE tells you exactly what to know for his test... it just so happens that it's every detail on every figure in every chapter he covers!! Seriously, Lehninger's biochem textbook is an absolute bible for the UVic course.

 

No one should be SCARED of taking this course. I actually appreciated the challenge; it made studying for other courses seem so effortless

[Guest natman]

The course is now taught so that Buckley teaches the first half (Poulson does a few lectures) and Paetkau does the second half. I think it works better that the 6 or so who used to teach the course.

 

My friend from UVic is taking Biochem 300 at UBC this summer. She got mid-ninties on her first midterm, and says it's a lot easier than Biochem 200 at UVic. So there you go, sounds like UBC's version is much easier.

 

Natman