Guest csp0304 Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Hi all, So what is the difference between those two pairs of organic chem courses? I've looked at the syllabus and obviously chem 203,204 seem to cover more materials. Is one pair more difficult than the other pair? If you can talk about your experiences with any of these courses, that would be great! Also, why is it that Physiology only accepts 233,235(L) but Biochemistry only accepts 203,204?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chocolatechips Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 chem 203, 204 are for honors biochemers. The courses cover more detailed explanations on organic reactions...lots of memorization involved. If you don't need these course, I don't recommend you taking them. The courses weren't fun when I took them back in 2000 but that's long time ago.. chem 233, 235 are for general science students (I think) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JC15 Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 I took Chem 203/204 because I did a chem major. The course does require a lot of memorization...but from what I hear from my friends, so does Chem 233. (It has changed since my friends took it though...it used to be Chem 231/232 and was all year). One advantage of 203/204 is that the profs don't try to weed you out. If the average on an exam was low, the profs had no problem scaling up. However, for the general science students, I heard that over a third failed first term. Organic chem is a classic "weeder out" course, but since 203/204 is a requirement for chem/biochem students to pass in order to take subsequent chem courses, they don't seem big on failing us. I enjoyed 203/204...but of course, I was a chem major...so I am slightly biased . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest patrickox Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Hello, I am a third year General Sciences student so maybe I can help you on this question. In second year, I took the Chem 233, 205 (you must take it for med pre-reqs) and 235L combo rather than Chem 203, 204 (which my good friends who also are looking at med took) and we had about 20% difference in marks (mine being higher). Since I know that my friends and I are pretty much equally intelligent (al least I think so!), I suggest the first set of courses rather than the later (barring your preference for biochem or chem as your major). Why? Chem 203, 204 have lab components (both terms). The three extra hours a week you get by taking the first set could be used to study more or even volunteer (which is what I used my extra time for). I know Chem 235 is a lab course but its only one term of labs rather than two. Also, from what I heard from my chem friends, the exam questions on the 203, 204 exams are harder than the ones on the 233 exam . In either case, you are going to have to work REALLY HARD for these organic chem courses - they count in your pre-reqs and are therefore pretty important (unless you are a brain). The average for my 233 class was about 58% (the first year it was given) so there is a lot of room to break from the pack and show academic superiority. Good luck in any case you take, Pat O PS- Do lots of practice exams - they help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biochem3010 Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Maybe I should shed some more light on this scenario. Actually from what I've heard, that is from other science profs & the Dean of Science, it is highly recommended that you take Chem 203/204 if you want to apply to other med schools of other provinces. They consider those pair of courses as "honours" org chem & they usually want 1 full year of organic chem rather a course + lab (chem 233/205). Even though your grades are good cuz of that, you get cut for not having 1 full year unfortunately. That's the downside. That's why there's a large waitlist of 3rd/4th years wanting to take chem 203/204 that want to get in. Just my 2 cents..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ollie Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 wow UBC has sure changed things since I took Chem 231/232 back in 97/98. Then all life science majors (bio, microbi, genetics, etc) all to take 231/232 with a lab in both terms. You could take the advanced ones if you wanted, but that was only for crazy people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EMHC Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 moved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tea Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 hi, Just know (and memorize) how to add C-C bond onto things and how to convert from 1 functional group to another and mechanisms. Know the acid/basic strength of each functional group and you'll figure out the rest. It's not that bad and not that much memorization either. I'm not a chem fanatic (my major is classic) but i did relatively well. Didn'tget an A+ but better than the majority of the class. btw, take it with Dr. Lermer. He's good. ps. if all else fails, find danthetutor and start praying. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest patrickox Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Hello %%WORD1%010, Are you positive about the other provinces med schools cutting UBC Life sciences students with Chem 123/205/233/235L? Because if you look at the exact syllabus of all those courses, they do fulfill all of the requirements and material covered in the traditional Chem 231/232. Chem 123 is actually the first half of Chem 231 and the last half of material not covered in Chem 233 (because Chem 233 can't obviously cover half of Chem 231 and all of 232), which is spectroscopy, is covered in Chem 205. I am in that same boat and have taken the MCAT with success. If any university were to debate the coverage of material Organic Chem material from UBC courses, I would refer them to our syllabus. Plus I believe that the biology program, which most pre-meds take, would NOT lead its students into a path that other provinces would not accept. PS: From what was told to me, the change to Chem 123/233/205/235 from Chem 231/232 was to free up an elective for UBC bio. It was not a cut in material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biochem3010 Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Well put it this way. Chem 123 isn't really organic chem. It's just some intro stuff to organic & physical chem with half of it being high school review + thermodynamics & SN2/SN1 stuff that all science ppl take. Chem 205 is physical chem, not organic chem. Chem 235 is a lab to organic chem, not a course itself, which leaves only Chem 233 as a real official organic chem course. So basically you only have half a year of organic chem, not 1 year. Plus, you BELIEVE that the Bio program would not lead lead students to a wrong path. But currently, the problem exists and will get worse, & it's up to the other universities to reconsider that change such as Alberta, Calgary, etc... as i mentioned, the Dean of Science put a statement on that too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest patrickox Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Ok, first, chill... its ok, I am not worried and I believe, neither should any UBC Bio students... U of C says this on their webpage: [From their FAQ section]: 8) What are your required courses? We RECOMMEND, but do not require, that applicants have taken a full year of each of: biology, chemistry, physics, English, organic chemistry, biochemistry and physiology as well as a semester of psychology, sociology or anthropology and a semester of calculus or statistics. Bottom line: no required courses In addition, I looked up U of Alberta's webpage and they say that they do require one full year of organic chemistry. When I looked at U of Alberta's own organic chemistry courses (Chem 161 and Chem 163), UBC biology students cover most if not all the material a U of Alberta undergrad would in Chem 123, 233, 205 and 235. Just in case, I emailed the admissions person at U of A to double check. Regardless if U of A accepts UBC Bio students or not due to the organic chemistry requirement, UBC students should concentrate on trying for admission at UBC, thats the best chance for us all anyway. U of A and U of C only take a max of 15% of their new med students as OOPs so that only leaves 18 and 15 spots at these universities respectively. I BELIEVE that if you don't have a competitive chance at your home med school (UBC), its hard to think that you will have a chance at another province's med schools (exception of course being Ontario). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest csp0304 Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Thanks for all the input. However, that 1 year of organic chem requirement is really bothering me. Biochem3010, could you specify which Ontario med schools have that requirement? I believe that for U of T, organic chem is not even a requirement, McMaster has no pre-requisite course requirements at all, and for Queen's, 1 year of general chemistry would be sufficient. On the other hand, Harvard requires applicants to have 1 year of organic chem. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest patrickox Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Hello, just to add something about organic chem requirements at other university med schools. UWO (Western Ontario) requires: a) Science Courses (interpreted as being equivalent to the science courses in Western's Academic Calendar) A total of three full, or equivalent, science courses as follows: * one full or equivalent course in Organic Chemistry with a laboratory component OR two half courses in Organic Chemistry, at least one of which shall have a laboratory component OR two half courses one in each of Organic Chemistry (with a lab component) and Biochemistry (with or without a lab component) * one other full or equivalent Science course from a discipline unrelated to Biology and Chemistry. Clearly, with UBC Chem 233, 235 and Biol 201 (or Bioc 300), you will make the requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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