Guest peachy Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Hi all, It looks like I'll be heading to U of T in the fall to begin medical school. But unlike most incoming first-years, I have absolutely NO relevant background beyond the basic requirements. I've taken a couple biology courses, and that's it! Not only that, but my undergrad required basically no memorizing, and basically no visual learning. So, I expect medicine to be a BIG change! Does anybody have suggestions for how I can get acquainted with some of the material so that first semester won't be as awful and difficult? Books that I'll need anyways that I could read through this summer? I mostly want to get acquainted with the style of learning, the basic language, etc. No "Enjoy your last summer before med school, don't worry, they'll teach you what you need to know" responses please I have absolutely no illusions that I am going to sit down and learn the curriculum before September :eek , and I'm definitely planning to have a fun summer :smokin , I just want to try to catch up so that I'm not starting from absolute zero. Thanks for any suggestions! Peachy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biochem10 Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Peachy, you've probably already seen this website, but if you haven't, you can check out all the first year classes and what the recommended textbooks are. Of course, I don't imagine you'll be buying all these textbooks, but perhaps a current med student can guide to which ones are worth it. www.library.utoronto.ca/medicine/curric/fmy.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Well, since you're going to ignore my "enjoy the summer" advice anyways I might as well be of some assistance. The toughest course in first year was anatomy. That and physiology were the most relevant courses from first year to any clinical experiences I've had. If you want to pick up an anatomy atlas and Moore's clinically oriented anatomy and poke through it, you'll be flying. Probably the most important course you'll take will be your clinical methods type class, though I don't know what U of T offers its first years (does U of T actually teach clinical medicine? I thought they just wanted their students to know how to conduct research?!? :b ) but if you want to pick up a copy of the Bates' guide to Physical examination and have a poke through that, it's much more interesting than the anatomy and probably more useful as well. I've found the U of T bookstore website to be a great place to pick that stuff up. But don't buy equipment - if the U of T student union is worth its salt, it will organize an equipment sale where you'll be able to get rock-bottom prices based on the buying power of all the first year students. We even had a few students show up with orders for their parents. What was your background, by the way, Peachy? I'm sure you mentioned it at some point but I can't remember it for the life of me. If I knew, I might be of some more use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peachy Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Thanks for the comments, UWOMED2005! The U of T bookstore seems to be down for now, but I'll check it out when it's back up. My background is in computer science & math. Any other advice you have would be greatly appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Right - you did mention that. So you weren't lying when you said you had nothing but the prereqs! Yeah, I'd start with anatomy. MAYBE touch on some physiology as well. The rest of the stuff you learn in 1st year is pretty much just background. But you'll find there's others who are starting from square one just as much as yourself so you won't be behind. And for those of your classmates who think they're ahead because they did degrees in things like Biochem & Molecular Biology and Microbiology & Immunology (ahem) will find their degrees go into way too much detail on about 1/8 of the curriculum, and cover absolutely nothing of 7/8 of it. Ok - that might be a bit of an exageration, but I'd be willing to bet you find you are not as far behind as you thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bearman14 Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Hey Peachy, I have taught a human anatomy course here at U of Calgary for the past few years, and if you need and/or want any materials to help you prep, I have some really good pdf files that we give to our students as their lab manuals. They are really comprehensive, and should give you most of what you may need to go over, particularly musculoskeletal. If you are interested, let me know, and I can email them to you (save you money on a textbook, for sure). I think, in total, they comprise about 5MB or so (9 different files). Bearman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest faqir9 Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 This conversation strikes me as nutty. Rather than assuming the answer and telling folks you don't want to hear differently, why not get their insight of students as to *whether*/what you should (and more to the point I suspect, should not) be doing this summer. Are there any students who actually encourage this "catch up"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jmh2005 Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Well, coming from a school that admits a small amount of people from a 'non-traditional' background..(there are really only a few in my class, contrary to popular belief that 1/2 the class has a non-science background) I know of a few people who wish they had read a bit of anatomy and physiology in the summer prior to starting meds, just to learn the basics, terminology, jargon, general body systems, etc.. in the summer prior to med school...The suggestion that was given to casually read Netters or Grant's is a great one and if you wanted to learn a bit of physiology the ever-popular Guyton's Textbook of Medical Physiology is also a classic... Seeing as you will be attending U of T, you will learn all this in your 1st year, so if learning comes easy to you (and I'm assuming it does...) and you are used to the style at U of T then I honestly wouldn't worry because you will be taught everything that you will need to know (sorry, I know that wasn't what you wanted to hear)... Good luck and congrats on getting into the PhD/MD stream...what do you want to do your research in?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aneliz Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 People in my class with no biochem background really struggled with biochem in our first quarter...although I have no idea what the biochem situation is like at UofT. Other things that the 'non traditional' students struggled with included: 1. Terminology!!! Most carried a medical dictionary around 24/7 and were constantly looking up words. If you can find a way to get familiar with some of the basic medical terminology/language system before Sept, you might find it easier. Otherwise, buy a good quality medical dictionary (Stedman's or Dorland's) that you can carry with you for the first little while. 2. Anatomy - try and get familiar with some of the basics before Sept and your life will be easier. (ie superior vs inferior, anterior vs posterior, positions, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest therealcrackers Posted April 20, 2003 Report Share Posted April 20, 2003 Adding on to the terminology idea; have a basic understanding of the syntax of microbiology if you haven't taken a course in it before. Micro is brute-force memory work, and being familiar with the key organisms will really help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QTeee Posted April 20, 2003 Report Share Posted April 20, 2003 Congratulations on starting the MD/PhD program. I won't patronize you with how you shouldn't worry about getting a heads up on medical school. I'm about to graduate from UofT (hooray!). Just briefly, if things haven't changed over the past few years, you spend about your first two months doing mostly anatomy. There are a variety of texts, but as you may have seen on your tour of the MSB, there is the Grant's Museum of Anatomy. Many students find studying from the museum specimens very useful. The infamous "Grant's Atlast of Anatomy" features drawings based on these museum holdings, and as such, may be a wise book to purchase. Basically, by the end of anatomy, you should know all the pages inside out (and forget all of it by them time you graduate). Another book that I saw many people use was Rohen and Yokochi (spelling?), which is yet another anatomy book but features photos instead of drawings. You also do some Histology in the first part of the year, and the recommended text for that is WHEATER'S FUNCTIONAL HISTOLOGY. Both of these subjects are quite a drab to go through, but they're what you'll hit first in medical school. The other courses which run longitudinally through the first year are ASCM and DOCH. For ASCM, either pick up Bate's or Schwartz (both textbooks are for physical examination). For DOCH, the recommended text that you'll need for all four years is Public Health and Preventative Medicine in Canada (by Shah). The thing is, if you purchase the books now, there might not be any "used" copies at the bookstore. At the beginning of the school year, there'll be a medical student book sale where students sell their books and you can get stuff for a lot cheaper. Just something to consider. Also, some try to sell their goods at http://www.torontomeds.com (follow the "Classifieds" link). Good luck! And remember to enjoy summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peachy Posted April 20, 2003 Report Share Posted April 20, 2003 Thanks all for your responses! That's really helpful. jmh2005: I'm not sure exactly what I want to do research in, beyond that I want to do applications of computer science to medicine, and that I especially like algorithms stuff (as opposed to databases or data mining, say). Whether that'll be bioinformatics, or health informatics, I'm not sure yet. There are so many ways in which computer science is informing medicine right now - it's pretty exciting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted April 20, 2003 Report Share Posted April 20, 2003 Hi there peachy, It's nice to see a non-basic scientist enter the MD/PhD program! Apparently UofT has been aiming to add a few of those types of researchers to the MD/PhD program, so yay for you on that front. As to health informatics, you might want to consider getting in touch with Alex Jadad--he's located over in the new building that houses the emergency wing at TGH, the name of which I can't recall. He's a guru in this hotly developing area, and to boot, a brilliant and all around nice guy. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MayFlower1 Posted April 21, 2003 Report Share Posted April 21, 2003 Bearman, That's a really nice offer...would it be possible for me to get a copy of the pdf's as well? Please email me at peterhill16@hotmail.com I don't believe this account will allow that big of an attachment...so when you email me I'll send you another email address... Thanks, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cheech10 Posted April 21, 2003 Report Share Posted April 21, 2003 Here's my advice: don't get anything in the summer. I found that many parts of textbooks were covered in little detail, so reading through a chapter and later finding that all you needed was in the first paragraph is a common occurance. If you try to read through things ion your own, most of your time will be wasted. When you do start in September, you'll find that buying as few textbooks as possible focuses your studying on the notes, which is where it should be for UofT's teaching style. There are a few books I really recommend though: Netter's (even though Taylor is not a fan, it's easier to handle than Rohen and Yokochi or Gran'ts; also you can get R+Y from the library for some test review) Wheater's (use this and skip the histology labs; I also like Fiore from the library which had large paintings of specimens) Bates or Schwartz, your pick Anything else is extra, and you won't likely use except to clarify ideas, which you can use a number of web resources (including textbooks) for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QTeee Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 Cheech 10 reminded me of a neat point. I never bought the R&Y anatomy book because it was so expensive (like $100). Most of the anatomy texts will be signed out of the main library (Gernstein) and hospital libraries. But a secret place where I managed to get hold of one to study with right before exams is at the Dentistry Library (all the way on Edward St, east of University Ave). I think it was a slightly older edition, but really, does human anatomy really change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 You think anatomy texts never go out of date, eh? I guess you've never considered evolution. Or the discovery of the "Monkeys of 2006." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest walton1 Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 Hi peachy, Perhaps you would be interested in a *really basic* text. This book is aimed at the community college / 1st year for arts students level, but it is great to have kicking around. It touches on both anatomy and physiology, and connects concepts to diseases. Structure and Function of the Human Body by FH Martini and EF Bartholomew Not really for the med student level, but it might make for a very gentle introduction into the basics. wally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aneliz Posted April 22, 2003 Report Share Posted April 22, 2003 This text is extremely basic....it is used in the course 'human physiology for arts students' at Guelph.... It is a decent book and a nice easy read though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peachy Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 Thanks for all the book suggestions everyone Kirsteen- This Jadad guy is just a little scary. Check it out. You seem to know an awful lot about what's going on at U of T, Kirsteen. Is this your first year there or have you been around for a while? Did you find it took a while to figure out what was up? U of T is so ... HUGE. It seems so difficult to get a grip on what is going on there, since there are so many faculties, departments, research centres, hospitals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 Hi peachy, Truly, Alex is great and I think he'd be a fabulous person to work with. As to UofT bits, I have been kicking around for a bit as I completed my B.Sc. there and now my M.Sc. I'd say, however, that this past year has been the one where I've had lots of extra exposure via work and departmental activities, e.g., sitting on committees, both of which are fairly closely tied to the Faculty of Medicine. In total, UofT reminds me a little of one of the big, world class cities: it can be massively overwhelming, but teeming with resources; and if you've got some spunk (which I'm sure you do ) you'll find your way around and take advantage of its attributes in no time. Just try meet lots of people, ask lots of questions and explore the amazing resources that UofT has to offer. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest macMDstudent Posted April 25, 2003 Report Share Posted April 25, 2003 Here's a novell idea: why not forget about textbooks and spend some time in a clinic seeing patients? That way you will get a picture of what it is all about, don't you think? You can start to find out what you like and what you don't. I'm sure you could volunteer somewhere in a specialty you are interested in. I think clinical experience would be the most valuable use of your time, in in my opinion. There is plenty of time for books in the future. Learn how to take a good history and do a good physical. Then you will be far ahead of the curve. Even if you want to go into research, I think as much background in clinical medicine as possible would be valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MayFlower1 Posted April 25, 2003 Report Share Posted April 25, 2003 macMDstudent, I think that's a wonderful idea...I have a few questions though. First, given that you have an acceptance...will doctors let you observe if you haven't even actually started? Second, I really like the idea of observing...but how much would you miss if you don't have the medical background to understand why a doc takes a particular interview route, etc? I'd appreciate your perspective and the perspectives of other current medical students, clerks or residents. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fox Posted April 25, 2003 Report Share Posted April 25, 2003 I think it depends on the doctor. Last year I shadowed a sports doctor (I blew out my knee and when I was there asked him if I could follow him around) and he actually let me give patients advice on knee injuries based on my experiences with the injury and treatment. Considering I am only starting med school in the fall, this was a pretty unique experience. I now work in emerg and the doctors there that I have gotten to know personally also said I could follow them around. I have learned a TON from working in emerg and from listening to the residents/doctors treating patients (the interview process/various tests ordered for different problems/different x-ray views). I have to agree with the others- peachy, you will probably learn more in a clinical setting than from books if the opportunity exists. By seeing various injuries etc. you will learn basic anatomy (ie. bones and ligaments). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aneliz Posted April 25, 2003 Report Share Posted April 25, 2003 While this is a good idea, I think that it may be difficult to pull off this summer...especially in Toronto given the current SARS situation. I know that at UWO, we have been banned from doing clinical electives since Apr 1...and the end of the ban is not yet in sight. It may also be difficult to find someone that is willing to take on someone that hasn't even started yet...given the backlog of med students that are going to be climbing over each other to make up lost time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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