Relationships & Medicine

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Beaver brought up the topic of relationships and medicine in a different thread. It's a topic that's come up in many personal discussions within my class - so I thought it might be useful to share some of my thoughts & experiences. I'd rather not to go into the details of some of the discussions (being personal) but sufficed to say it's a pretty hot topic, for a number of reasons. I even remember there being a "relationship support group" at Dalhousie for Med Students and Grad students (I haven't seen that yet at UWO.)

 

There are a significant number of my classmates in relationships, and it's not just the older students. I believe two of my classmates were married before getting here, and another one got married in October. And for some reason, A LOT of other people have since become engaged! I'd guess there might be as many as five to ten people in our class engaged at this point. . . seems almost disproportionate compared to my friends outside med school. I'm not entirely sure of the reason for this.

 

To say the least, medical school can be a serious strain on relationships. At Western, many of us to move to London to attend medical school. That means for many of the involved people in our class, their relationships have either gone long distance or necessitated the displacement of their significant other to London. This can be a source of strain for the relationship, and also on one's studies. We have a few people in the class who head out of town either every weekend or every other weekend just to see their significant other!

 

Furthermore, even if distance isn't a problem, medicine can put a strain on relationships. Medical school involves long hours and that can be a strain on relationships. This is particular true for clerkship - Western clerks are often on-call, and that usually means staying at the hospital for 36 hours or more. It can be hard to find time to spend with the significant other. Furthermore, if you are planning on doing a competitive residency program, with CaRMS it's quite likely you won't be able to choose what center you do your specialty in. That can mean moving to another center, meaning either doing "long distance" for a further years or bringing your significant other along with you, with no guarantee they can find employment/training in their field of study. I talked to a few 4th years whose CaRMS choices were not based on what specialty they wanted, but what specialities they thought they could match with in their significant other's center. I remember the Western residency program director bringing this up at our career night. . . he almost went so far as to say that the most important factor to matching to the residency of your choice is being single (though he didn't say that. . . somethings can be more important than your career.)

 

Things aren't exactly easy if you're single, either. That myth about med students/doctors getting all the men/women (ie Seinfeld, Friends, etc.) isn't exactly what it's cracked up to be. This goes to address your point Beaver. My experiences are that medical school classes (at least at UWO) are fairly insular. Most of the people I've met in London are other medical students. And there's a somewhat rule against dating classmates. A few couples have hooked up, but you have to be careful about it. You spend almost 30 hours a week with your classmates for 3.5 years, so if things go awry, they can be extremely messy. You'll have to deal with seeing that ex-significant other pretty much every day for the next few years.

 

That being said, it is possible to meet people in medical school - you either have to be lucky enough to find your soulmate in your class or the one above or below, or try a little harder to network with people outside the class. The latter would be my recommendation. And if you do go through a drought, don't get desparate - I've seen some med students (and non-med students) act that way - it's a real turnoff.

[Guest PeterHill0501]

UWOMED2005,

 

Your post is excellent.

 

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote>Quote:<hr> To say the least, medical school can be a serious strain on relationships.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->

 

I would have to agree wholeheartedly. While I didn't meet my wife during med school...I did start dating her when she was in her PGY1 year of an obs/gyn residency. I have to tell you, it was extremely challenging. First of all...the 36 hour thing that UWOMED2005 mentions is real in Ottawa to, depending, most likely, on the specialty you choose. In obs/gyn, my wife was on call either 1 in 2 or 1 in 3...and it seemed that she was most often on call 1 in 2. What does this mean? She would work 24 hours...then have to do rounds in the morning...which often took another 5-6 hours...then she'd come home and sleep from noon until night...then she'd be back on call again. Often we only had time for a quick morning :kiss" and then she was off again...often she felt so nauseated that all she wanted when awake was to have personal time when nobody was demanding anything from her...clinging to her..."give me some spaceeeeeeeeee" sort of feelings. Not intentionally tooting my own horn here...and I wasn't always a pleasant recipient of "the mood" but it takes a really patient and understanding person to put up with someone in residency.

 

Now, having said that, it is quite short term in the grand scheme of things. My wife actually decided that the "balance" of obs/gyn was not in alignment with her perspective on what balance should be and her personal life goals...to make a long story short...she switched to family medicine after 2 years of obs/gyn...it was much better after that. Sure, there was still call...but it was more often 1 in 3 and, at least some of the time, the call was at home.

 

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote>Quote:<hr> ...or try a little harder to network with people outside the class. The latter would be my recommendation. <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->

 

The fact that I was in high tech and my wife was in medicine was actually quite refreshing. It's nice to be home and not "talk shop" all the time. Also, since we were from totally different professional environments, it provided interesting contrast in perspectives on the same topics (e.g., work conditions, annoyances at the office, etc.) I hope we can maintain this difference of perspective and opinion when I get into medicine.

 

Anyway, I hope this provides you with some more bits of the solution to your puzzle...keep your head up...things have a tendency to work out.

 

Peter

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Thanks for sharing your experiences. BTW - if you don't mind sharing, how did you and your wife meet? It think some of my "classmates" would be interested to know how she met someone outside of medicine during med school/residency.

[Guest ThugJaan]

uhmmm...its called clubbing/bars...I think it workd regardless of whether you are a doctor or in residency...just get out and meet people, its not like you have NO time to do it...assocaite with non-meds people..there have to be a few guys you know that pick up mad chicks so it can't hurt to tag along and see what comes up....

 

Might be easier in a bigger city like TO [small plug for Toronto].

[Guest PeterHill0501]

Interestingly enough...both of us were extremely busy professionals with demanding jobs. While I enjoy going out to bars for refreshments it's not the place where I choose to meet women...I think it's an unhealthy environment for that and many of the women who frequent this milieux for said purpose are really not my cup of tea...so to speak.

 

We actually met on the internet. There are really cool aspects to meeting people on the net and really uncool things about it. There are also really good forums to meet people in and some really bad ones...we can certainly have a chat about that one sometime. Amongst the cool reasons for meeting someone on the net is that you get to know them psychologically...we interchanged mail for about 2 months prior to meeting. It was comforting for me to know the person that I was meeting wasn't interested in my money, assets, etc...that there was a real connection psychologically. This was the real failure in my first marriage...I was totally attracted physically to my wife...but...she wasn't the brightest star in the sky...I'll leave it at that. My current wife was brilliant (obviously, she's a doc...graduate of the royal conservatory of music...gold medalist in genetics from her year at western...it's quite sickening actually...laugh...as a sidenote, I hang my patent awards on my wall to try and outnumber her achievements...we kind of have a loving battle going...I'm winning in number but not diversity!) witty...caring...warm and exciting to interact with...when I met her, finally, she was also stunningly beautiful as well. HOWEVER, I had met a few other women on the internet prior to meeting her...let's just say their pictures were either 15 years old or they didn't look at all like they said they did. Now, I know that looks aren't everything...but, for me at least, physical attraction is a necessary condition for an intimate relationship. So, I guess the main bad sides of meeting people on the internet are (1) you don't really know if you're meeting a psycho, etc., and (2) you can actually be psychologically attracted to many people but then meet them only to find out there's no 'spark'. Think about it...walking through a crowded public place...how many people do you find attractive enough to date/have a relationship with...then divide that by the probability of ever meeting them...and divide again by the probability that they will be available and interested in you...pretty small chances, eh? Well, I was obviously quite lucky. The other weird thing about meeting people on the net is that it circumnavigates about 1M years of evolution where we have traditionally evolved to be physically attracted and then get to know people psychologically...I actually find it great...just a bit weird.

 

There's a ton more I could share but my fingers are sore and I'd prefer to do it over a few beers sometime!

 

Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

 

Peter

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Yes Thugjaan, some of us did do the "pick-up" thing in Undergrad. . . bars and clubs are great for some things, but for what Beaver was referring to (ie finding a long term relationship, etc.) I haven't found them all that useful. Then again, I guess it's theoretically possible that person you met last night in a drunken stupor does have something in common with you. And it's not like I've never met someone in a bar and had it work out - but there's almost always been a friend in common or something. Meeting a completely total stranger in a bar and had a decent relationship come of out of it? I'm sure it's possible. . . but I've never had it work.

[Guest Little Brown Kid]

I met the girl who I am currently with in the summer before med school. We were offically "together" on the first day of med school and we have been together since. She is a great girl and I totally love her. Has med school ever gotten in the way of our relationship? Never. I've had a LOT of time to hang out with her and get all my work done at the same time. I'd like to think, to be quite honest, that this girl has actually HELPED me this year because I've always had her to turn to if things ever got stressful or tough.

 

So, coming from the point of view of a guy with a long-term girlfriend, it is TOTALLY possible to have one, and it has really helped me this year.

[Guest tipharet 09]

I'm going to be entering Med1 this fall and will be leaving my significant other in a different city. We are planning to do the long distance thing...but I have to admit I'm a bit worried, and so is he. Will I have the time needed? Will he understand? Living and meeting totally different people that won't involve him, etc etc

 

I've never had a long distance relationship so I don't really know what to expect...can anyone give some general advice on how to set this up and go about it?

[Guest AB newbie]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents. Two and a half years ago I met my current boyfriend at a club in Vancouver. At the time I too beleived that nothing real could grow out of a club "hookup". Boy am I glad that I was wrong(It's been 2.5 years of bliss).

 

Anyways, I love to go to clubs and shake my bootie- and I don't think that that makes me any "type" of girl (fyi- I don't smoke, drink or sleep around). I know there must be other decent people who frequent clubs so it is not completely unthinkable that you could meet someone worth having a relationship with while out on the town.

[Guest UWOMED2005]

As "little brown kid" (another UWO student, BTW) pointed out, it's fully possible to maintain a relationship while in medicine. For some, it just takes a little more work - this is quite often particularly true for long distance relationships. As mentioned previously, we have a number of students in this boat. I think for some it's a challenge seeing that significant other only once every few weeks. But people do seem to make it work.

 

On retrospection - I hope I didn't sound overly cynical on relationships and medicine when making my initial post! People do hook up, maintain relationships, and even get married in medical school. It's just medical school (and medicine in general) can create challenges for relationships. . . and I thought it might be useful to bring that to light. . .

[Guest Beaver]

Thanks alot for the advice.

 

For those planning a long distance relationship, some advice:

I actually did meet my exgirfriend in undergrad (first year frosh week stayed together for 5 years but she went off to Western for dentistry. We tried the long distance thing but between both of our schedules it was tough to find time to see each other. I found that if you dont grow together you tend to grow apart. I think what makes a long distance relationship work is the personalities and requirements of the people involved. My girlfriend needed to constantly be visiting with me (like we were in undergrad) and found it too hard when I had to leave after weekend visits, so she decided to pull the plug because for her it was all or nothing. So if any of you are going to be busy with school talk to your girl/boy friend and find out exactly what their expectations are, it will probably be the deciding factor as to whether you stay together or not.

 

While i agree you probably can meet girls at the clubs. I would feel kinda cheesy scrubbing up to a girl on the dance floor at 28 when she's probably 19. It was one thing in high school at 17 to go to the Brunny or Phoneix with the fake id and get friendly with girls 23-27 who thought we were in university, but now the novelty has kind of worn off.

 

Oh well maybe if OMASS hadn't screwed up my application, I would have been interviewed at UWO meds and if I was accepted I guess I could have hooked up with my old girlfriend as we still keep in touch always.

 

Oh well thats life!

 

Mr. Rader no worries about the bald guys with the top down. I think truer words haven't been spoken. While I have all my hair right now (and no sports car) who knows what the follicle situation will be when I'm done residency! I think its safe to say nobody wants to be "that" old bald guy, cruising around with the "hungry" eyes in the sports coupe with the celine dion cranked.

 

take care everyone

the beav

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Ahh, the brunny. What a dirty, yet fun, hole in the ground. There was some talk back in September of the UWO 2005s hitting it up some night (partly as a joke - we're not that into 17 year olds) but it never materialized. Actually, on the subject of bar hookups one of my friend's parents first met at the brunny thirty odd years ago!

 

And Beaver, I know your pain. Same thing happened to me with a girl from Ottawa when I got to Western. . . same reason too. Bummer. But, if anyone out there is worried about that happening in their situation - it honestly doesn't have to be that way.

 

BTW - I didn't mean to imply I think all bar hookups are bad. After all, many/most of us do frequent bars and clubs, and we can't all be bad, eh? It's just most of the people I know who have gotten into long term relationships did not meet their significant other at a club or bar. If all you're counting on to "hook up" is the bar scene. . . then I could see you easily becoming "that" guy.

[Guest mying]

I have no idea if there's anything to it, but there seems to be a high number of med students dating/engaged to/married to... engineers and computer science grads. Dunno what's with that, though I have a few theories, just thought I'd share.

 

Oh, and I'm one of those engaged people (since last summer), no immediate plans to get married, very very long term relationship (just clocked 7 years , and he does live and work in another city. We are still close enough though that he comes and visits about once a week, and let's just say I *love* my long distance plan.

[Guest ikus]

Anyone maintaining a long distance relationship between U Ottawa and a significant other in TO. Just wondered how you manage the commute when visiting. Train, bus or car?

[Guest Champ]

Dear tipharet09,

 

I was in a long distance relationship for 3 years between Toronto, Ontario and Oxford, England.

 

It can work providing both people are equally committed and can even strengthen the relationship.

 

 

We are now married and truly cherish the time we spend together.

 

champ

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Yep, a friend of mine is carrying on a London-Ottawa relationship. He usually trains it, though has flown from Hamilton on occasion. I understand he's hoping to buy a car over the summer.

[Guest MSax35]

My husband and I did the long distance thing for about 5 years before we were married. We only saw each other about every 6 weeks for a few days - we were a 15 hr drive or 2 hr plane trip apart.

 

I think the main thing for success is the attitude you go in with. We viewed what each of us was pursuing as equally important (him - dentistry, me - MBA and career). Neither of us is the "jealous" type, so that allowed us each to be involved in school-related socializing without the waste of energy and emotion on "worrying" about what the other was doing. We trusted each other to just have fun, without compromising our committment to each other. We communicated by phone about every other day - that type of communication was a skill that got better as time went on.

 

We are now married with children, and have no ill-effects from our long-distance past. I think if you go into anything "expecting" problems or issues, that is just what you will get. Just my two cents...

[Guest ikus]

This has been very reassuring. A physician friend of mine insists a long distance relationship and med is near impossible. Of course I know it depends on the couple but it made me very worried. Thanks for all your input.

 

My next question will be about having children during med training....I know this might incite fury in the undergrad that dislikes older people entering med! I will have to start another thread.

[Guest UWOMED2005]

From what I've heard, medical schools tend to be extremely supportive when it comes to that sort of thing. I know the administration was extremely supportive of the student who got married during the school year back in October - she got a fair amount of time off and had her exams deferred. . . I think the same sort of philosophy would apply if someone decided to have children during medical school. Same goes for many residency programs - most of them have policies in place to deal with maternity (or paternity?) leave.

 

Historically, these issues have been a problem for the medical profession. As a result, medical education administrations are fairly aware/sensitive of these issues and have either addressed these issues or are developing strategies to address them. I don't think the solutions are perfect, but at least the issues have been addressed. At least that's the case for Western - some of the other moderators might be able to comment on the other schols.

[Guest ThugJaan]

I know that they are very supportive her for childbirth and they will allow defferal even under those conditions.

 

About weddings though..ummm..I dunno about getting time off [in fact I am pretty sure the answer would be no over here]...that seems pretty darn nice of Western Meds to do that...they might give you time off here but I don't think they would have delayed exams for a wedding unless you were getting married on that day...but to delya it for a honeymoon or something might be pushing it...

 

There are a few married folk in our class and they seem to be getting along okay. I think the real hit is not until 3rd/4th year and then of course internship. In the first couple of years its not that big a deal [think of it like a souped up undergrad].

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Really? Are you sure about that? It's not like my classmate got months off for the wedding, but some time off was granted and some of her exams were deferred a week or two so she could catch up.

 

One of the things that's impressed me about Western is a realization on the part of the faculty that medicine is a PART of life, not life itself. They tend to be pretty good about finding solutions when life gets in the way of studies (ie deferring exams. . . though there are limits!!) We all want to be top-notch physicians & surgeons who provide the best care for our patients. At the same time, we're all human. . . and you can't practice medicine 168 hours a week.

 

On another note, the upper year students at Western put together a booklet every year where they interivew specialists in London about what the different specialties are like, what's important for matching to that specialty, and what the lifestyle of that specialty is like. What really impressed me was that many of the specialists emphasized how important maintaining balance in life is. In fact, one of the specialists wrote something to the effect of "I never realized what my priorities were until my first kid was born. . . while medicine is still a top priority in my life, my family comes first."

[Guest U of O med]

Peter,

 

For everytime you say "beer", I want you to put 10 cents in a jar... you'll have tuition paid up by September!!! HAHAHA

 

I'll have to keep my eye on you during frosh week... don't worry, I have 911 as a speed dial on my cell phone.

[Guest PeterHill0501]

Ya...perhaps I do have a bit of "beeritis"...it's for the hops really...has nothing to do with the alcohol...

 

You better hope I don't get accepted or that you don't participate heavily in Frosh week...I may be old...but I could make you look bad!

 

As for the 911 speed dial...what do you intend on using that for...to bring a fresh load of bee$ (I didn't say it...) when we're out?

 

Peter

[Guest Ian Wong]

Floating back to the top.

 

Ian