importance of publications in residency selection

[Guest MedBound786]

Hey guys;

 

I know that ultra-competitive programs like to see research during medical school on your application. However, do you know whether a publication out of that research is a MUST?

(in programs like Cardiac, Neuro or General surgeries)

 

thanks

 

edited because you don't need to YELL in your subject titles.

[Guest UWOMED2005]

I've known people who've matched to ophtho and cardiac without research.

 

They were excellent candidates in other respects.

[Guest aneliz]

Research is always nice and will never hurt your application... however, it is largely just a 'check mark' that you have done some. Whether it is in the same field or it was published are bonuses, but not large ones. Many people match to all of these specialties without having done any research let alone having a publication. Of course, their application shines in other ways.

 

Research experience and publications will not save an application that is deficient in other areas.

[Guest linghy]

Of course, their application shines in other ways

 

Like?

[Guest aneliz]

Like:

 

Clinical electives in the area with glowing reference letters from their preceptors

 

Strong personal statements that illustrate why they want to do X specialty

 

A meaningful life outside of medicine (EC's, volunteer work, community involvement, hobbies, etc)

 

A stellar interview in which they demonstrate their superior communication skills, logical and ethical reasoning and social skills to get along with those in the program.

[Guest mackenziemarshall]

So, I've been pondering this problem in my head for a while... I heard that if you really want to get into a residency program at a specific location, you should try to do an elective there to build some connections and make yourself known as an applicant for residency. The problem is, there's no possible way to travel to all the locations you want to apply to.

 

For example: Let's say you go to medical school in say, U of M or U of C. You would like to end up doing a cardiac surgery residency at Toronto when you graduate; second choice: general surgery in toronto; third choice: cardiac surgery or general surgery in BC; forth choice: cardiac surgery or general surgery Calgory; 5th choice: cardiac or general anywhere. *(yes, I know it's terrible: this applicant wants to be in a major city AND try for these insane hard to get into specialities, and probably will end up unmatched because of it...)

Now, I know you can travel to Toronto in your last year and do an elective in say, cardiac surgery there, but what about your next few choices? most schools only give you the option of doing one elective at a different location, so how to you make yourself known to the cardiac and general surgery departments elsewhere? It's impossible for a candidate who has his/her heart set on cardiac surgery to do an elective at every location right? So,what do you do to gain a shot at other schools? Is it common for schools to choose residency applicants who have never done an elective at that school before? How do other ppl get around this?

I see that my post is a bit rambly and non-sensical... If somebody has any idea what I'm trying to ask & could give some advice, that'd be great lol. Thanks!

[Guest MedBound786]

Holy @#%$ (pardon my language) !!

 

When I was reading your post, I slowed down to make sure I read every word 'cuz your description of the residency applicant in question is EXACTLY me !! Those are really my residency speciatly and location choices. As I was reading the questions you posed, I was thinking you were going to answer them towards the end and then you bail out !

 

I have thought about these questions so much and came up with nothing.

[Guest TimmyMax]

Hey,

 

Lots of programs choose students who have never done electives at that particular location for the simple fact that it is just not possible to do electives everywhere!

If you are interested in doing a specific program at a specific location, then the single best thing you can do to help your chances is to do an elective there!!! It appears to be pretty simple what to do in your situation- choose your electives such that you are doing the programs that you are interested in at the locations you are interested in- that will make you much more competitive for matching to those locations!

Even if you don't end up matching to cardiac or general surgery in Toronto for whatever reason (ie: PD hates you, you're totally inept in the OR), other cardiac and general surgery programs will see that you have done electives in their field and there is no single better way to demonstrate interest in a given specialty than to do 4th year electives in it!

Other programs will see your elective choices and that will make you much more competitive than somebody who has done all of their electives in ENT and then suddenly decides that they want to do general surgery- it's kind of sad, but it's so true- your electives really (should) dictate your career path- it's hard to convince a program that your heart is really in pediatrics when all of your electives are in derm, for example. A program is much more likely to rank someone who they don't know/didn't do an elective with them if they have done electives in that field at other locations than someone who hasn't.

Hope this helps!

 

Best of luck!

Timmy

[Guest xylem33]

Here's a good a question, related but perhaps a bit dumb - but I'm not in meds yet - so is there competition for the electives too then?

 

I mean, if certain residencies are competitive so that some students, for ex, can become dermatologists while others cannot, is this because you did or did not do electives in derm? Like, it seems to me that if you do all your electives in derm, then there's no way you can't match right? Or are there other factors in addition to electives that determine what you match into?

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hey there,

 

Competition for electives can exist. Competition can exhibit itself in the form of electives in competitive areas, e.g., Dermatology, that book up quickly. The degree of competitiveness is a function of the specific field and location and some electives, e.g., Plastics in certain large centres, can book up a number of months in advance.

 

Although electives are very important (because they can help you spend time with the residents and faculty of a program and provide letters of reference for CaRMS) other factors within the CaRMS process are important also. The interview, for one, is important as is the essay.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest TimmyMax]

Hey,

 

 

Like, it seems to me that if you do all your electives in derm, then there's no way you can't match right?

 

Sadly, that is not the case. Although doing a ton of electives in a given field (ie: Derm, Plastics, etc.) gives you an edge in terms of demonstrating interest, there are a ton of other factors that go into a program director's decision to rank you high, low or not at all. The interview is probably the most important factor- if you're a jerk or a pathologic personality, you won't be ranked- it's that simple. Definitely something to keep in mind!

 

Best of luck!

Timmy

[Guest xylem33]

This is good to know. Thanks. I'll have to work on my personality until then.:rollin

[Guest Bigheadbebe]

Is clinical research is more preferred than academic research for application purpose to residency?

 

I hope they are equally ranked

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

If the clinical research is related to the specialty to which you're applying, then this will often be viewed as an asset during the CaRMS process.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest MedBound786]

For U.S competitive residency programs, they say mere couple of summer months in a lab is not good enough until enough meaningful research is done and Publication comes out of it. To what extent is this sort of mentality true for Canadian competitive residencies (specifically surgical subspecialities)? I mean, is research with publication given more value here versus research without a publication?

 

Also, if Canadian med students do get a publication, how do they take out the time to do a long-term research with so much studying to do ?

 

I am so lost in this area. Any help would be so much appreciated. Thanks

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

In terms of research productivity in medical school, it can be done. Generally, what is feasible is to select a good project and supervisor and work hard on the research during the relatively slow weeks of medical school. (So that during the relatively intense weeks of medical school, e.g., exams, efforts can be devoted to activities unrelated to the research.)

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen