UBC premed

[Guest triplefudgebrownie]

Hey, I'm considering going to UBC for premed. I just wanted to ask, does it suffer from grade deflation like U of T and McGill? Anyone doing premed at UBC, I'd love to know what you think of it. :-) Thanks!

[Guest wab8611]

how does UofT suffer from grade deflation?

[Guest richmond604]

there's premed @ ubc?

 

how does McGill suffer from grade deflation? :eek

[Guest triplefudgebrownie]

You look at the mean GPA of students in schools. A mean GPA of around 3.0 or less is considered grade deflated, and both U of T and McGill have a mean GPA of 2.2 .

 

And no, as far as I know no school in Canada offers premed, but what I meant by premed was one of the biological courses, the kind of courses students usually take if they wanna get into med school - Biochemistry etc.

[Guest Ollie]

You look at the mean GPA of students in schools. A mean GPA of around 3.0 or less is considered grade deflated, and both U of T and McGill have a mean GPA of 2.2 .

 

Huh? Where are you getting this info from?

 

I went to UBC and most of my big science courses had class averages of around 65%. I have never heard anything about grade deflation. If anything, they usually would scale marks up if the average was too low or the failure rate too high.

[Guest Jochi1543]

C is considered to be "average" and most professors will design a class where about half the students will get a C by exerting "average" effort. So an average GPA of 2.2 is by no means strange.

[Guest triplefudgebrownie]

Hey Ollie...

65% isn't that bad... actually... yeah, yeah it is... I'm comparing it with high school here, e.g. the average for our Biology class would be around 85%, but I guess marks drop a lot when you go to uni..

 

Did you find that there was a significant proportion of students getting GPAs in the range of 3.7-3.8 and above, or almost none at all?

 

 

 

Re: Jochi

OK, so if the professor aims for half the students to get Cs, does he set a set proportion of students who should get As?

[Guest Jochi1543]

It really depends. Some profs will set up a very rigid structure in terms of how many of what grades will be given out. Some of my Econ classes would have 28 students and the expectations were 2 As, 5 Bs, and the rest Cs and a few Ds (Ds not alloted of course). But in my 100-person chemistry class, for example, there was no set quota. However, you would always find that about 50% of people got Cs, 20% Bs, 10% As, and the rest would be Ds and Fs. The majority of people usually ends up with a C. On the other hand, I know in my 12-person Japanese language class nobody has a C.

 

P.S. I'm not at UBC in case anyone has this impression. I was PMed today by another poster and congratulated on my admissions to UBC med. I'm not even applying until next year.:rollin Too funny.

[Guest Jochi1543]

Also.....it's common knowledge that in highly competitive programs (pre-med, economics, etc) there's a certain degree of "weeding out" practices. I don't know how much of an opportunity profs get to do it in Canada since my understanding is that you guys have year-long classes and therefore take the same classes in the spring as you do in the fall. Here in the States they are broken up (like, General Chem is a 2 semester sequence, etc). It's a frequent occurence that General Chem I is extremely hard and most people do terribly in it, but those who survive and take General II, find General II to be significantly easier. It's certainly very pronounced at my college which is very "concerned" with the issues of grade deflation (I think our average graduating GPA is like 3.5 or something, between B+ and A-). It seems ridiculous to me though....do they seriously think a college graduate with a C-average on his or her diploma will be able to get any job?:x

[Guest medeng]

do they seriously think a college graduate with a C-average on his or her diploma will be able to get any job?:x

 

Actually in my experience most employers don't care too much about the grades... Sometimes they care about the courses you've taken (if they're looking for specific skills, which happens fairly often in engineering jobs) but they very rarely ask for a transcript... most of the time they will take your word for it (which actually scares me a bit, I'm honest, but I'm sure there are people out there who would stretch the truth to get a job!) But for grad school/meds, a C- isn't going to get you far, but thats part of the whole "weeding out" process... it starts in first year and ends (hopefully) in meds!

[Guest peachy]

do they seriously think a college graduate with a C-average on his or her diploma will be able to get any job?

Are you serious? Of course people with C averages get jobs, and lots of them get great jobs. In most fields (unless you're applying to more school, typically) your transcript is the LEAST important thing - they're looking for skills, people who shine in an interview, people with relevant experience. And really, getting a university degree is an achievement no matter what your grades were - lots of people don't have one.

[Guest triplefudgebrownie]

OK, the fact that there seem to be no set quotas for large classes, makes me feel a little bit better...

 

Also, I've heard that first-year classes are supposed to be the most difficult, and that it gets easier after that (as in, easier to get a high mark).

 

I'll have transfer credits for most of my first-year courses, I think, so theoretically I should get into university and skip the "weeding out" process.

 

Has your average dropped since high school? If so, by how much? (sorry if that was too personal of a question). How much would you say is the average percentage by which people's marks drop from HS to uni?

[Guest richmond604]

......not to scare you or antyhing, but there is a reason why second year courses are not first year courses

[Guest Jochi1543]

In regards to 2 posts that I'm incorrect about GPAs....To speak of my specific experience, last year 5 people from my class including me, were invited to an interview for an investment banking internship based on the questions/comments all 5 of us made during a visiting lecture conducted by the IBer who created the internship position. All we were asked to do was send in our resumes and then he would contact those who he was most interested in. I was rejected immediately, even though I had a variety of tough courses on my resume, speak 5 languages, work while in school, volunteer constantly, etc. BUT - my GPA at that point was a little over a B+. The other person who was rejected had a 3.5. The 3 people invited to the interview all had 3.8 and above. Given that we were all students in the same class, and I know them to some extent, I can attest to the fact that they did NOT have any extra job experience that could've made the difference.

 

Of course, my 3.4 didn't prevent me from getting an admin job that summer with a decent pay. But that can't compare to an investment banking job. Some jobs won't care about GPAs because the intellectual abilities of candidates, well, don't play that much of a role. You really don't need to be that sharp to be a good office assistant or customer service representative. But at a good job? Of course they will look at your grades and compare your success at school with that of other applicants of similar backgrounds. GPA is definitely not all, as I do know someone with a 4.0 who failed at securing desirable employment after graduation. But I have to say he was not a citizen or permanent resident of the US and it was in May 2002, at the worst part of the economic recession in the States, so MANY grads, including those from Harvard were also unsuccessful in securing a job. I keep in touch with a lot of graduates because I joined a predominantly upperclassmen student org when I was a sophomore, and I can definitely tell you that the ones with the better grades are also the ones who ended up with better jobs.

[Guest Jochi1543]

Triplefudgebrownie (oh, boy, I'm getting a craving ).....I don't remember my exact GPA in high school....It was just a bit too low for me to be on High Honors, so it must've been 3.6. But, I went to a very challenging private school where I played sports 3 hours a day among other things, and I was taking 2 Advanced Placement courses. I was also an international student, so I had to deal with having to adapt to a new environment and has some, though not extreme, language barrier. Put me back there today, and I probably would've had a 3.9 or so. I did badly fall of my freshman year, had a bit over 3.0 - mostly because I was enjoying the new-found freedom after leaving private school. However, since then my semester GPA has varied from 3.5 to 3.9, so I wouldn't say I'm doing worse than I did in high school by any means.

 

I happened to check the stats of this year's graduating class at my school yesterday, and half the people are graduating with Honors (above 3.5 GPA). So, it's not that terrible, really.

[Guest triplefudgebrownie]

"......not to scare you or antyhing, but there is a reason why second year courses are not first year courses"

 

Go on, scare me... ;-)

 

 

 

Hey Jochi, which school are ya at?

 

 

Re: "I was also an international student, so I had to deal with having to adapt to a new environment and has some, though not extreme, language barrier."

 

Amen to that... changing schools was hell for me. It was a lot of work trying to adapt to learning in English, and a whole different school system. Granted, I got some really good grades in Year 11, but I don't play any sports, and I worked my ass off.

 

I'm in a British school now, and I'm a bit worried about how I'll adapt to the Canadian system. I've had a few Canadian folks come to my school, and they said their average dropped... so you could conclude that Canadian schools are easier to get high marks in. I'm still worried about the transition though.

[Guest mysticalbc]

I went to ubc for my undergrad and my grade 12 avg was about 95%... my overall 4-yr avg at ubc is 85% with first year being the lowest (84%) and second year the highest (88%).. pretty steady

I 'd say that first year was the hardest just because its really hard to adjust to univ,,, it takes u at least one semester to learn how to study,, so usually people have low marks during their first year,,, u also have to consider that at ubc, first year classes are HUGE... some classes have as much as 500 ppl in them,, so its really hard to do well (best example is second year organic chemistry where the midterm avg is about 40-45%)..

on the other hand, at the end, for most science courses the avg has to be around 69 or something but it totally depends on the prof if he wants to have it higher.

when i was in grade 12, i got accepted into U of T, McGill and UBC and back then, u of t and ubc sounded equally hard,, so i just chose BC because i have family here. i dont think there is much difference b/w the 2.

oh,, one piece of advice: if u have taken AP courses, do not transfer ur credits.. its worth it if u take the course again and get a high mark than to just get the credit for it (e.g. i took AP calculus in high school and my first year math is one of my highest marks),,, if u have college credits, then u have no choice ..

anyways, in terms of med, i sometimes wonder what would happen if i had gone to McGill and had become a quebec resident? maybe easier to get into med there if u speak french and are willing to learn med in french? u never know,, but BC has only one medical school, so consider that too

good luck

[Guest Jochi1543]

I`m at a liberal arts college in Twin Cities, MN.:hat

[Guest triplefudgebrownie]

Hey, mysticalbc, you just made me feel a helluva lot better about UBC... I'd kill for an 85% average in college. I think my grade 12 average will be.. hmmm, it's hard to tell because my exams are external and so we get our results a couple of months after taking the exam, but I'd say I have a chance of getting a Grade 12 average above 95 (my mid-term average was 99).

 

And as for UBC having the only medical school in BC, that sucks, it sucks even more that I won't be able to apply to it, since they don't take in any internationals. I'm really getting fed up with not being able to get into med school as an international student - I've only found 6 med schools in CA that take internationals. Ah well. I guess I could start working and immigrate after my undergrad degree... then apply for medicine... but getting an MD is long enough as it is, without any gaps. .

 

 

Mmmmmmmmmmm Minnesota. I've heard the guys there are really hot.

[Guest caliente]

If you in the IB program, and getting very high 90's (like 99, yikes!8o ), you should not worry so much about your future marks in university. Of course, you will need to work in university at least a bit, but you are probably well prepared. The people I know who had similar experiences in high school as I think you've had found university easier compared to high school for the most part, especially first year.

 

Also, if you are a landed-immigrant or permenant resident, I think that means you can apply in the Canadian pool. Not too sure about this, though... Either way, you might have an easier time as an international student if you attend a Canadian undergrad university. Again, just thinking out loud. Admissions might be able willing to answer these things.

[Guest Jochi1543]

Just curious, what country are you located in now, and why do you wanna go to Canada specifically for meds?

[Guest triplefudgebrownie]

Hey Caliente, I'm not in the IB program, I'm in a British school... but I gather that the standards are about the same so... uhhh... I dunno...

 

Re: "Also, if you are a landed-immigrant or permenant resident, I think that means you can apply in the Canadian pool."

 

Yup, you're right, I *would* be able to apply in the Canadian pool, if I was a permanent resident... which I am not. :/

 

 

Re: Jochi

 

I'm in Kuwait right now, born and bred here, but my nationality is Serbian. And why I wanna go to Canada specifically for meds... well, it seems like a much better place to live than the US and England, and I want my diploma to be recognised worldwide. I also like the idea of living in CA better than the US or UK... just something about the people. And the med schools are easier for international students to get into and they're less expensive. Now getting in is gonna be the *really* tricky bit. What I might do though, is apply for a Green Card in the US (basically everyone I know from my country who bothered to apply, got it), so if I get that, I'll apply to a US med school after doing my undergrad degree in CA. I'd probably return to CA to live, if my circumstances allow me.

 

I swear, being an international student SUCKS.

[Guest mysticalbc]

hey triplefudgebrownie

not to disappoint u or anything, but i think it all depends on ur personality... i have a friend whose grade 12 avg was 96%, first year avg (at ubc) was 70%, and then from second year on, her average was around 85%. sometimes people dont realize how hard they need to work when they are in university until they get to finals .. but there are people who start reading all their books and doing all the problems from the first week of class.. i guess just finding a balance between having a life and getting good marks is the only thing u learn during ur undergrad years lol I dont know if i agree with the person who said if u have IB credits, u will most likely do well in first year.. again, i took AP (advanced placement) calculus in high school,, but the reason i did well , was because there were only 20 people in our class and we had quizzes and tests basically every other day,, and there was competition too,, so i had to work a hell of a lot harder,, if i werent pushed by the teacher, i probably wouldn't have done that well... so there are lots of variables that u need to consider

[Guest Jochi1543]

Oh yeah, I know what you mean, I'm an international in the US right now. I just got my Canadian PR in March. But of course something got messed up and my parents got their PR cards over a month ago and nobody knows where mine is. *sigh* Even though my grandfather is a citizen in the States, it would take me almost 10 years to get a green card (my mother would have to get one first). My mother applied 3 years ago and they STILL haven't gotten to reviewing her file. So I've given up on US and Canada just happened accidentally. Originally, my parents were told I was not able to apply with them due to some family issues, but apparently either the rules changed or the original officer was misinformed and I submitted an application at the last moment.

 

Where's your family? Are they planning to immigrate too? If they have college degrees, some relevant work experience, and a good command of English and/or French (being bilingual is not necessary even though it's a bonus), they can immigrate under the skilled worker category. That's what my parents did, and I counted as part of the family as I was under 21 or 23 or whatever the "dependant" age is. Anyway, I personally didn't *participate* in the application process and didn't go through any interviews, my parents did, but if you have any questions, PM me, I might be able to answer.

 

Can your parents pay for school? I'm not sure about Canada, but in the US, if you're an intl student, you need to have a US citizen co-sign your loan if you plan to pay for school yourself.

[Guest triplefudgebrownie]

Heya...

 

Jochi, it really sucks that they can't find your card... :/ At least you know you'll get it eventually though, so don't worry :-) It'll appear in time..

 

I think it's easier to apply as a family dependant in Canada than the US, and Canada just now changed their immigration laws to make it easier for people to immigrate... I'm not counting on it though. I don't know if I mentioned this earlier, but my last resort sort of plan would be to finish my undergrad in CA, apply as a skilled worker, get permanent residency, work for a year or two and then apply to med school. It would take extra time out of my life though, so I don't really wanna take that route :/. Although, it would be a nice break from school... I dunno.

 

My family... OK... my dad never wanted to apply for US/CA citizenship/permanent residency because he'd have to live (and work) there for a bit, and jobs overseas (ie. Mid-East) always paid more. Plus he wasn't exactly planning on having me (he was 56 when I was born), so I guess he didn't think of applying for those things when he was younger. He has a PhD in Engineering, speaks fluent English and a bit of French, so I think he could definitely apply as a skilled worker immigrant, but he's convinced that they wouldn't let him, because of his age (it's true in a way - how do you convince people that you're gonna work when you're 73?). And my mom, she's a nurse but doesn't have a college degree, and doesn't speak English, not that she'd want to do anything to help me anyway.

 

As for paying for school, my dad says he can pay for my undergrad degree, and there's a high probability that he'll be able to pay for my graduate study too, depending on how much my mom gets in the divorce. I don't know how much she would be willing to contribute to my education, if any at all.

 

 

 

Oh, but as for getting a Green Card in the US, I was thinking the Diversity Visa Lottery. That only takes a year to complete - I could apply when I start my undergrad degree and (Insha'Allah) get it by the time I'm 19.

 

 

 

Whooooops - just saw the post from mysticalbc (sowwy!)

 

Re: "but there are people who start reading all their books and doing all the problems from the first week of class.."

 

Eh, you're talking to one right now ;-). You're right, it's to do with personality... my personality's like, I don't like leaving things unfinished, I always try to do everything on time, and I'm really organized - don't mean to brag or anything. At least that's the way I've been so far. I'm just worried that a new environment at university will have an effect on my study habits... I know it does that to a lot of people.

 

I know the reason lots of people's marks drop in first year is because the classes are so huge, and then they get smaller in second year... I should get credits for most of my first year classes anyway, so I hope that'll kind of "cushion" me..

 

Oh yeah, and I *would* do the courses again - but quite frankly, I just wanna get my undergrad degree out of the way as soon as possible - the less time I have to spend in it, the less money I have to spend too. I'd definitely redo the courses if I was a domestic student, but international student fees are sky-high, just not worth it. Even if I did want to take the course again, I don't think they would let me - I think my courses are counted as college credits (from a British school). It's a good idea though ;-) a bit sneaky, but clever ;-)