kevinkwon84 Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Hey guys! I've heard a lot about medical school's H-P-F grading system but I don't know much about it. I'm doing my undergrad @ UofT, and as many of you may know, they use bell-curve grading system (class avg HAS to be around mid 60s...and considering the LARGE size of UofT classes, the competition was just always BRUTAL). So how does this H-P-F grading system work? Do they bell-curve the class avg too? Also, do students have all of their medical lectures at Botterell Hall? Or are they held at some other buildings too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_B Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 From what I have heard (nothing official) there IS a bell at Queen's....but it's sort of a reverse bell. Exam questions are apparently re-weighted so that people do better. For example, say the class average on a question is 30%, well thats not good, so that question is made to be worth less. Like I said, I have no idea if this is true, or if it's just a beautiful rumour (today is our first exam), but yeah, there is no belling to take down averages or anything like that. The administration wants/needs us to do well (there is a doctor shortage if you haven't heard ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coleflower Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 I wouldn't call the way Queen's meds grades their exams a bell. They play with the weighting of every MCQ such that "discriminators" are weighted the most highly, and questions that everyone does well or poorly on are weighted less. In the end, I don't know how much it affects the marks. They definitely don't try to bring anyone down like the traditional bell does. (eg. last fall, 70% of 1st years got H) Not all classes are in Botterell, but the vast majority are. Other common locations are Biosci and the Hotel Dieu Hospital Auditorium. Small groups are spread around campus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying kumquat Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 I don't think it's the administration's goal to have a class average of x% or a certain percentage of the class with honours. For the first term of my class's first year, I heard a large proportion of students got honours (i.e. a mark of 80%+). This might beg the question of the point of having H/P/F, but that's another topic... The majority of our classes are in Botterell Hall. In first year, there is the occasional class in Etherington or elsewhere. First term of second year, classes are in BioSci and at Hotel Dieu Hospital. I'm definitely looking forward to going back to Botterell, mostly for the wireless internet and table space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarzi Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 So is the grading at Queen's curved or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ans Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 So is the grading at Queen's curved or not? There are rumors about it but no one has really told us for sure. The marks seem to be curved so that it works in everyones favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarzi Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Doesn't that almost defeat the purpose of h/p/f?? it might as well be p/f. Anyway, does anyone know what the grading is for clerkship? Will this be scaled??? I really dislike it when schools scale the system so that only 25% of students can receive honors...not b/c it promotes competition, but hell, wouldn't it just sck if you earn your honors grade but due to their scaling, you only get a pass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaymcee Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 I enjoy that one of the primary objectives of a PF grading scheme (and, to a certain extent, an HPF one) is to greatly reduce nit-picky discussion and competition about grades, yet this thread has managed to start dissecting even such a simple scheme. Shouldn't the focus just be about learning/knowing your stuff? It's not because you're trying to get honours or whatever, but because not knowing could potentially put people's lives at risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katerade Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 I enjoy that one of the primary objectives of a PF grading scheme (and, to a certain extent, an HPF one) is to greatly reduce nit-picky discussion and competition about grades, yet this thread has managed to start dissecting even such a simple scheme. Shouldn't the focus just be about learning/knowing your stuff? It's not because you're trying to get honours or whatever, but because not knowing could potentially put people's lives at risk. haha you are telling a bunch of pre-meds not to worry about marks. its like telling you not to worry about air. thats why HPF kind sucks, cause I know that (for me anyways) if there is an honours grade to achieve i will always go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahone Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 I don't think there is anything wrong with the self-motivation you mentioned. If it helps to push you to strive for excellence and high-achievement, great! If it pushes you to do so at the expense of personal and/or collegial relationships, or worse, your integrity...BOooooooo!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarzi Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 I enjoy that one of the primary objectives of a PF grading scheme (and, to a certain extent, an HPF one) is to greatly reduce nit-picky discussion and competition about grades, yet this thread has managed to start dissecting even such a simple scheme. Shouldn't the focus just be about learning/knowing your stuff? It's not because you're trying to get honours or whatever, but because not knowing could potentially put people's lives at risk. in the ideal world, yes - but at least for me, worrying about getting honors leads to efficient studying which leads to me learning/knowing my stuff. i highly doubt that someone could get honors and NOT know their stuff. My point is - and it may be wrong b/c i don't know how it works in Canada - let's say that your school does have h/p/f and you receive zero honors...and just P's all 4 years - well, do you know how this will affect your choice of specialties?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarzi Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 I don't think there is anything wrong with the self-motivation you mentioned. If it helps to push you to strive for excellence and high-achievement, great! If it pushes you to do so at the expense of personal and/or collegial relationships, or worse, your integrity...BOooooooo!! That's all nice and peachy - but do you know what the divorce and marriage rate is amongst the top surgeons in NA?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahone Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 That's all nice and peachy - but do you know what the divorce and marriage rate is amongst the top surgeons in NA?? No, I don't. Considering the context (UME grading scheme), I also don't see the relevance... I admit tarzi I'm coming up with a big "huh?" from your post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarzi Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 No, I don't. Considering the context (UME grading scheme), I also don't see the relevance... I admit tarzi I'm coming up with a big "huh?" from your post my point is that some of the best surgeons actually are so crazy about their work - that it is put before other things in their life. some of the best minds put their passions before their relationships... But, in the context of what we were discussing - I will also admit that yes, it would be bad, and kinda strange too, if students strived to ahcieve honors at the expense of their peers and personal lives - no doubt. But we must realize at the sametime - can we actually make a universal value judgement on what is considered "important" to someone's "personal" life? What is personal and what is work? What if a person dervived pure joy - (the same kind of joy that some would derive from spending time with their family for instance) from their work or research? Who are we to say that this person is "sad" or has "no life" ? I mean, does it even mean anything when someone says that going out to a bar is "cool" while playing video games and reading comic books is equated with "no life"? When we say "no life", what are we really saying? Can we define what it is? Can what we consider to be "having a life" actually change through space and time? Can it actually be dependant on the indivdual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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