Sharpie* Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Does anyone know if Canadian citizens who attend a MD program in the US are at a disadvantage for getting their preferred CaRMS placements in Canadian residency programs? Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andros Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Hi Sharpie -- I don't know anything official so this is just my thoughts on it. I think it probably depends on what you're applying for (ie: family med vs. surgical subspecialty). I think US grads might be at a disadvantage if the Selection Committee members don't know the school that the person is coming from. Also, I think you would be at a disadvantage if you don't do electives at Canadian schools where you can get known and get some reference letters from people known in the field in Canada. I think references are probably quite important -- especially if the person reading it knows the person writing it. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie* Posted February 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Hi Andros, This may sound silly, but what do you mean by electives (I'm not that far along in the Med School process)? How can I do these in Canada while attending school in the States? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffp Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Hi, I tend to agree. You should try to do some electives in Canadian programs where you would be interested in matching. In clerkship, you will have certain mandatory rotations, but you will also have some time allocated to schedule rotations of your choosing. These are called 'electives'. Most electives are 2-4wks long. Some students also do electives in the summers after 1st and 2nd year med school. Electives are good for a few reasons. You get to explore different specialties, and find out if this is really what you want to do for the rest of your life. It allows you to "make yourself known" to programs where you might be applying, and it also allows you to get a feel for if you will fit in a particular program, or enjoy living in a particular city. I am currently a cardio fellow, and have served as an interviewer and file-reviewer for both CaRMS and the cardiology fellowship match. I honestly don't know very much about schools in the states, and I haven't experienced US applicants coming through CaRMS. We did have quite a few US applicants (some Canadian citizens) coming through the cardio match. I think they ARE a bit disadvantaged for a few reasons: 1. The training at US schools is highly variable. In Canada, medical schools are fairly standardized. No matter where you graduate, you will have approximately the same training/knowledge when you start PGY-1. The states are MUCH more variable, and certain programs here have been burned in the past with getting VERY weak (and even dangerous) candidates from the states. It's not necessarily the residents' fault, but in some cases they just didn't get enough "hands-on" exposure, or enough teaching during med school to function at the level expected as a PGY-1. Most Canadian physicians know NOTHING about US schools, so won't be able to tell if a candidate is applying from a "good" school or a "bad" school. This casts all US applicants in a bit of a suspicious light. 2. Exposure. Applicants who are KNOWN (and known to be good) always fare better than those who are unknown. 3. References. Most medical fields in Canada are like little clubs. Orthopedic surgeons in BC know the orthopods in Winnipeg and Halifax. They will recognize the names on your reference letters, and know when you have a strong referee. US docs (unless they are well-known in the field) are more likely to be unknown to Canadian admission committees, and their letters might carry less weight. Many of these problems can be solved by simply spending some elective time in the Canadian programs where you hope to match. First of all, I would contact the program director and ask what their policy is regarding US applicants. If they won't consider your application, don't waste your precious time and money going there!!! When you go to do an elective, make it known that you want to apply for residency. If you can show them firsthand that you are a good and capable applicant, it won't matter if they don't know much about your school. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie* Posted February 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Hi ffp, Thanks for your reply, it was really helpful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost__in__space Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 "Special Announcement for 2007: Following an AFMC motion, the 1st iteration of the 2007 Match will be open for International Medical Graduates who meet the above-mentioned basic eligibility criteria." Sounds promising http://www.carms.ca/eng/r1_about_intro_e.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andros Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 Yeah, IMGs were allowed in the 1st round of the match this year, but they weren't eligible to apply to every spot. Some provinces had "parallel" matches where specific programs were allocated to the IMG stream (or that's my understanding of it). I still think it would probably be easier for a Canadian grad to get a given residency position in general. "Special Announcement for 2007: Following an AFMC motion, the 1st iteration of the 2007 Match will be open for International Medical Graduates who meet the above-mentioned basic eligibility criteria." Sounds promising http://www.carms.ca/eng/r1_about_intro_e.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowai Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 What if the American MD eduction was at a top teir US university? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1056 Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 I am a US grad and canadian citizen and had no problems matching into my first choice non-family medicine residency. As a canadian citizen, and providing that your school is LCME certified, you go through the same process as canadian grads. good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost__in__space Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 I am a US grad and canadian citizen and had no problems matching into my first choice non-family medicine residency. As a canadian citizen, and providing that your school is LCME certified, you go through the same process as canadian grads. good luck sweet :-) Matching to Neurology in Canada, here i come :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted April 13, 2007 Report Share Posted April 13, 2007 sweet :-) Matching to Neurology in Canada, here i come :-) Hell no! You're not taking my spot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost__in__space Posted April 13, 2007 Report Share Posted April 13, 2007 you're interested in Adult Neurology too? I really truly think it's my calling I'm so incredibly interested in it, I'm neuro-dorky to the point that it's scary.... and just a bit sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andros Posted April 13, 2007 Report Share Posted April 13, 2007 Hey Bear, We weren't given much info about the whole process for international graduates (wrt parallel streams, etc). There was one question I had, which you might be able to answer... Were Canadian citizens who did med school abroad able to apply to all positions or only ones designated for international grads? I wasn't sure if the IMG criteria applied to all people doing med school outside Canada or just people who weren't Canadian citizens. Congrats on the match... isn't it nice that it's over? Edit: after re-reading your post, I see that my question was already answered... sorry I am a US grad and canadian citizen and had no problems matching into my first choice non-family medicine residency. As a canadian citizen, and providing that your school is LCME certified, you go through the same process as canadian grads. good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avenirv Posted April 13, 2007 Report Share Posted April 13, 2007 canadian RESIDENTS, not citizens only, with medical studies in Canada or US can go into CARMS or the american match, but going into one eliminates you from the other (if you match). so the first match voids the second one. i.e. you are not IMG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moo Posted May 5, 2007 Report Share Posted May 5, 2007 Having finished almost one year of residency in Canada and coming from a good US school, I can say that at least in my experience, Canadian training is actually not as great as some people tout it to be. On most of my evals, I've been told I'm "above average" in residency in Canada, whereas I was almost always "below average" in med school. I'm surprised at how little the 3rd years know--one kid didn't even know you could give ibuprofen for fever! Another didn't know what class of drugs verapamil is in! The culture of pimping on rounds is almost non-existent in Canada, and the questions people ask are never difficult. People definitely do not work as hard in Canada as in the US, and this is not just family medicine. Even on internal medicine, over four weeks, I had two completely free weekends. This never happened in med school--certainly not on medicine. Procedure-wise? I intubated over 30 times in med school, put in numerous art lines and central lines when we did our mandatory ICU, started IVs, drew blood and cultures in our crappy VA hospitals where nurses don't do crap. And in the US, I actually got to deliver babies, whereas in Canada, women don't let men deliver! I delivered four babies over my four weeks of outpatient obstetrics because women don't want a male to touch them. But I'll tell you one thing. A lot of the IMGs really don't know what they are doing in Canada. There were some Russian "extenders" at one of the hospitals here and they were quite dangerous in what they did. This is not a slight against Canadian med schools. For the most part, I think training is quite decent here, but please don't think Canadian medical training is the best in the world. If you open up your eyes a bit, you'll realize that Canadian training isn't the greatest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silky_Johnson Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 I am from Ontario and just gave up a spot at the University of Saskatchewan to go to Albert Einstein College of Medicine in NYC (for various reasons, mainly the life experience I would gain living and learning medicine in the Bronx). So it is possible to come back for residency (other than FP or psych)??? My brother is in medical school right now and he told me it would pretty much be impossible. Is he just being a downer? Any suggestions would be welcomed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastriss Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 I am from Ontario and just gave up a spot at the University of Saskatchewan to go to Albert Einstein College of Medicine in NYC (for various reasons, mainly the life experience I would gain living and learning medicine in the Bronx). So it is possible to come back for residency (other than FP or psych)??? My brother is in medical school right now and he told me it would pretty much be impossible. Is he just being a downer? Any suggestions would be welcomed! LOL thats what everyone says..its the easy answer and the grim answer that everyone loves to give out...in short...DEF not impossible. Don't take my word for it..go to carms.ca and check out some stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horlicks Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 according to CaRM it's possible to come back to do residency...but what are your reasons for doing residencies in Canada? cuz I definitely want to do residency in the US before deciding which end of the border I will be practicing at (presuming whatever program I do is recognized in both countries) ________ C20XE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest viscous Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 so if a Canadian finishes MD and his/her residency in states and is licensced to practice there AND then they decide to come back to Canada for practicing, how would that work out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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