Why go to UoT

[hp18]

If medical schools do not care which university you come from, then why should one go to UoT? It's well known that UoT is extremely tough. I came to UoT with feeling that UoT being hard will have advantage over easier universities. I find it extremely difficult to maintain GPA above 3.8 as I am taking courses which will count towards my Bio major and chem & math minors.

[vip_138]

hey! i took basket weaving 191 and it was hard. I spent many nights just trying to understand how to 'weave'. And don't even get me started on the exams. Maybe you should think before you critisize a respected and credited degree in basket weaving

[KennethToronto]

If medical schools do not care which university you come from, then why should one go to UoT? It's well known that UoT is extremely tough. I came to UoT with feeling that UoT being hard will have advantage over easier universities. I find it extremely difficult to maintain GPA above 3.8 as I am taking courses which will count towards my Bio major and chem & math minors.

 

Dear hp18,

 

Following your posts on the premed boards over the past several months, I've found that a large majority of your posts are complaints about how 'unfair' the medical admissions process is in Canada - despite the fact you haven't even gone through the cycle yet.

 

To address another one of your posts:

"If medical schools do not care which university you come from, then why should one go to UoT?"

Wow. I didn't know the only criteria that goes into choosing an undergrad institution was how med schools would look upon them.

 

"It's well known that UoT is extremely tough. I came to UoT with feeling that UoT being hard will have advantage over easier universities"

Have you been enrolled at the "easier" universities? Give it a rest buddy - the schools are more or less equivalent. Anything to the contrary is just anecdoctal BS. If it makes you feel better thinking you're at a "harder" university then so be it.

 

"I find it extremely difficult to maintain GPA above 3.8 as I am taking courses which will count towards my Bio major and chem & math minors."

As has been repeated in just about every single one of your posts: YOUR GPA ISN'T THE BE ALL AND END ALL OF EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE.

 

ps: quit trolling!

[paperweight]

If medical schools do not care which university you come from, then why should one go to UoT? It's well known that UoT is extremely tough. I came to UoT with feeling that UoT being hard will have advantage over easier universities. I find it extremely difficult to maintain GPA above 3.8 as I am taking courses which will count towards my Bio major and chem & math minors.

 

If UofT is hard, why did you think that would be an advantage??

 

This is a huge problem I think a lot of high school students interested in medicine don't really think about.

 

Graduating high school students need to visit universities, learn the programs, and talk to their current students. Find out which university they believe they will do the BEST at and enjoy, and simply go there.

 

Too many Canadian students are worried about university reputation when it comes to undergraduate science, but all it shows is that they haven't done their research, and aren't able to think beyond traditional paradigms of thought.

[paperweight]

 

"It's well known that UoT is extremely tough. I came to UoT with feeling that UoT being hard will have advantage over easier universities"

Have you been enrolled at the "easier" universities? Give it a rest buddy - the schools are more or less equivalent. Anything to the contrary is just anecdoctal BS. If it makes you feel better thinking you're at a "harder" university then so be it.

 

I would agreee that undergrad science in MOST Canadian universities are roughly equal in terms of difficulty, but I am very sure that life sciences at UofT downtown is definitely tougher than many other programs.

 

I go to a stereotypically "easy" university, where I slack off and procrastinate like no other, and it still isn't hard to get 4.0s. Conversely, I know people much smarter (bookswise) than I am, who are doing worse than myself at UofT downtown.

 

It's not impossible to get really good marks at UofT downtown, but it may not be worth the risk or effort. Conversely, I hear that the education you get there is much much better than most. So, it's a trade off between education and marks.

[Smurfette]

Hey hp18,

 

Given the facts:

(1) Med schools don't really care what school you go to.

(2) You want to get into med school (I assume)

(3) You feel that your current courseload is too difficult to maintain a competitive GPA and you feel that you are disadvantaged

(4) You are unhappy with your school/program

 

I think the answer is pretty simply: switch out to another school/program that you think will be easier, more competitive, and where you'll be happier. The work you've done wouldn't be discounted - you can transfer your credits. And if your assumptions are true, then you'll be more competitive for med school, you'll have a better time, and you'll have an advantage rather than a disadvantage.

[katerade]

I disagree on many of the points in this thread.

first, i do think that certain canadian schools are 'harder' than others. simply looking at it in terms of the caliber of students at the individual schools; if McGill science has a 91% entrance average cutoff, and dal has a cutoff of 78%, the overall caliber of students will be higher at McGill (by caliber i mean the ability to get good grades, for the sake of this argument). so a student with a 92% who goes to mcgill will be average, while they might be closer to the top if their class (in terms of ability to get good grades) at dal. since many courses aim for an average around a B (usually B- to B is acceptable, although variation does occur) you will have to work harder to get the same grade at mcgill. i do not think this is a reason to go to one school over another, but i think it should be taken into consideration.

 

I also disagree that med schools dont look at where you came from. many schools dont, as they use straight cut-offs to assess pre-interview scores. however schools that take a more subjective approach, like u of t, will have this information when assessing your application, and can integrate it into their perception of you as an applicant.

[papazow]

i'd have to agree with the previous post..

there are definitely harder schools in canada (UBC, Toronto, Mac, McGill, Queen's) and very easy schools (York, Nipissing, Brock, Lakehead, etc).

If anyone suggests a Science degree from Toronto or McGill is as hard to attain as a degree from Lakehead or York, they are dillusional.

[Madz25]

since many courses aim for an average around a B (usually B- to B is acceptable, although variation does occur) you will have to work harder to get the same grade at mcgill. i do not think this is a reason to go to one school over another, but i think it should be taken into consideration.

 

 

B average?! WTF lol. in my 4 yrs at UofT I've had ONE course with a B average and ONE with a B- average. Everything else is C/C+ ...which schools aim for a B average?! and I graduated with 22.5 FCE's not even 20 lol.

[vip_138]

yeah, at my school, almost all my classes' averages have been C's. Maybe a B for more advanced courses where its basically only premeds. I have one course where we have an A average, but that's an exception since the instructor will only let ppl with a B or better in the prereq courses.

[eise]

yeah, at my school, almost all my classes' averages have been C's. Maybe a B for more advanced courses where its basically only premeds. I have one course where we have an A average, but that's an exception since the instructor will only let ppl with a B or better in the prereq courses.

 

And that's an excellent point. Depending on the course and the prerequisites for the particular course, the class average might vary. I was in a program where you needed a 70% average to remain in the program. So a C-average obviously does not make sense. You also need to take into account what these particular letters mean per school. Not all schools have the same percentage range for each letter.

[blinknoodle]

ps: quit trolling!

 

Ahh.. the benefit of the ignore list.

[temp_degoo]

More support for the UofT class average of C. In fact, I've had several D's and D+'s as well. Our profs said they just give whatever the class earns, and if its too high/low, all they have to do is explain it to the registrar.

Lot of my classes with C+ and B- averages have been taught by "assistant" professors who may curve so that they don't have to deal with administration.

 

Everything that was written above is true by the way. Medical schools don't care where you come from, just what you have accomplished where you went. There is no way someone from UofT who did nothing in undergrad will be chosen by UofT meds over someone from western (take your pick, queens, mcgill, Uvic) who has done tons.

 

There is also some truth to what Katerade said. On the whole, the class average of an entering class may be higher at McGill than at Dal. But this comes down to the number of people that apply (which is based on so many factors beyond the quality of the institution).

 

EDIT: I just checked my marks. Only two D+ averages (no D's). Lots of C's and C+s, and some B-'s, but mostly in upper years. (Last semester, every class was B-)

[uofthopeful07]

Graduating high school students need to visit universities, learn the programs, and talk to their current students. Find out which university they believe they will do the BEST at and enjoy, and simply go there.

 

so true.

[edge_w]

More support for the UofT class average of C. In fact, I've had several D's and D+'s as well. Our profs said they just give whatever the class earns, and if its too high/low, all they have to do is explain it to the registrar.

Lot of my classes with C+ and B- averages have been taught by "assistant" professors who may curve so that they don't have to deal with administration.

 

 

Just to contrast things with McGill, I'm in a life-sciences program, and I have never had a course with a C average. The hardest courses, i.e. Org chem, Calculus, physics, all had a B-. The easy classes as high as A-, or 84% in one of them! The average, by far is a solid B. So to hear these horror stories at UfT boggle the mind....

[LightsEternity]

as far as I know the policy at UofT is 25% of the class should receive an A, but the class avg is left at the discretion of the dept. For the most part, most departments at U of T feel that avg work is roughly 67-70%; hence most class avgs are C+ (i.e. pretty much every 1st and 2nd year class with >300 people); and a few classes will have B- avgs (i.e. Human Physiology PSL302, "some" advanced specialist courses i.e. BCH242)

[hp18]

I disagree on many of the points in this thread.

first, i do think that certain canadian schools are 'harder' than others. simply looking at it in terms of the caliber of students at the individual schools; if McGill science has a 91% entrance average cutoff, and dal has a cutoff of 78%, the overall caliber of students will be higher at McGill (by caliber i mean the ability to get good grades, for the sake of this argument). so a student with a 92% who goes to mcgill will be average, while they might be closer to the top if their class (in terms of ability to get good grades) at dal. since many courses aim for an average around a B (usually B- to B is acceptable, although variation does occur) you will have to work harder to get the same grade at mcgill. i do not think this is a reason to go to one school over another, but i think it should be taken into consideration.

 

I also disagree that med schools dont look at where you came from. many schools dont, as they use straight cut-offs to assess pre-interview scores. however schools that take a more subjective approach, like u of t, will have this information when assessing your application, and can integrate it into their perception of you as an applicant.

 

 

I completely agree with you. I hope more & more Medical Schools recognise this fact.

[paperweight]

Hp, I doubt medical schools will because it is very subjective, and there are too many variables to consider. It is hard enough already to be objective.

 

Furthermore, I don't see why a student should be penalized for where they chose to attend for undergrad.

[excalibre]

This is why they should put more weight on the MCAT

 

I know a lot of people are going to hate hearing that, but as a standardized exam, it levels the playing field. It's not like the SAT or other bogus exams, I feel it actually does test ability. Consider that in a regular exam you are mostly trying to remember facts (and if its multiple choice, vague facts). Sometimes you will use the facts to synthesize ideas. However, on the MCAT the majority of the information is there. Your comprehension and ability to apply information becomes much more important.

 

Of course, I would never argue that the MCAT should be the end all and be all, and MCAT cut-offs are a bad policy designed mostly to reduce the number of applicants through attrition.

[lll]

hey ....i am not in U of T...but heard of it...is it true that it also calculates ur GPA differently....it takes courses with 85-89 marks as a 4.0 GPA...correct me if i am wrong...so some kinda advantage!!

________

volcano classic

[LightsEternity]

yea at U of T 85-89 = A = 4.0 on a U of T transcript; but on the OMSAS scale, this becomes a 3.9

[lll]

but how do u check that...the omsas scale says 3.9 for 85-89 for column 7 which is for U of T

________

R80

[eise]

but how do u check that...the omsas scale says 3.9 for 85-89 for column 7 which is for U of T

 

The OMSAS scale is the 'be-all' so it does not matter what the individual school considers for their own GPA calculation.

[EricC]

I do believe in some form of standardizatiion, however, I disagree that the MCAT is necessarily the best way to go. First of all, I believe that it is an additional economic barrier that makes applying to medschool somewhat elitist (who can afford a summer off, who can pay for Kaplan, etc.). All of you probably have spent a few thousand dollars writing the MCAT, applying and travelling for interviews, etc. However, recognizing that GPAs do vary from university to university depending on their mentality, I think Quebec has a far better approach. They use statistical calculations to quantify how much you distinguish yourself from the average. Furthermore, they even consider the strenght of your class based on their highschool grades so that if you distinguish yourself less from a group of high-acheivers, you aren't penalized as much. Although controversial due to the complexity of the calculations and the numerical values being somewhat abstract, I believe this system of grading is the fairest and is an incentive for schools to not boost their class averages as some of you have argued. Anyways, just some food for thought!

 

Eric

[paperweight]

Excalibre, you said you think MCATs should be weighted more heavily, but that cutoffs are a bad policy? What would you propose instead then?

 

I agree that MCATs, being a costly, one time thing, should not necessarily be weighted too too heavily... but I would say that cutoffs or flags themselves are a fair weight.

 

Whether you like it or not, applying to medical school is a game with rules, and people who are smart enough to take advantage of those rules are inherently better off - one of the smart decisions is to pick a university where you believe you will do the best at, and picking a more prestigious university simply because you are worried about reputation is a choice you have to live with, and not worth complaining about.