FAQ: Everything about doing research as an undergrad

[blinknoodle]

This FAQ is geared for those in undergrad wanting to learn more about research opportunities. There have been numerous threads, so I have hopefully summarized the major points. Search the forums for more discussion on these topics.

 

Do I need to do research to get into medical school?

NO! Absolutely not, medical schools accept students from a variety of backgrounds.

 

Why would I want to do research as an undergrad if medical schools don't need it?

You will find a ton of different reasons students pursue research. First of all, you may enjoy it! It can be a great way to get hands-on experience in a field you find interesting, learning different ways of tackling problems and help you decide whether you would like to continue in this area (grad school, jobs, areas in medicine, etc).

 

But what IS research?

I suppose one of the biggest myths is that research needs to involve petri dishes and test tubes. Nothing could be further from the truth, although certainly lots of research includes snazzy glassware. Just look around your university to see what kind of research professors are pursuing - don't limit yourself to the life sciences, because there are opportunities as diverse as investigating the sociology of love, the mathematical modelling of vaccination strategies, the perception of different sounds, etc.

 

When can I do research?

If you are enrolled in an honours program, you will likely be doing a 4th year honours thesis. If you can't wait until 4th year, you can start as you as you find a supervisor that wants you to help out. This can be as early as first year if you are really eager. You can pursue research during the school years or the summers.

 

How do I find a research project/supervisor?

I recommend figuring out what kind of research you would like to pursue and see who is studying that area at the university you wish to work. Likely if you have an interest in an area, you will have taken some courses so you will already be familiar with who is doing research or know where to look on the web. Pick a few people with similar interests and see what kind of research project they are pursuing or have already published. Then get in contact with them (email, etc) explaining why you would like to work with them and provide your CV. Repeat as you see fit, but the personal approach seem to work best. You can also go the alternative route of finding job postings and seeing which you like the best. Jobs can be posted on hospital job boards, your university's job postings, summer research courses (ie. ROP299Y at Toronto) and there are some specific summer programs geared to students wanting to do research (ie. Sick Kids in Toronto).

 

How do I get paid?

You won't become rich doing research, that's for sure (not only do you need salary support, but it can also be expensive for all the things you need for your experiments). If you find jobs listed, you can be reasonably certain they will pay you. However, there are different areas to get funding - will your supervisor pay you directly from their grant or would they like to apply for external funding (ie someone else pays you). One of the major funding bodies for undergrad students is NSERC. NSERC awards are distributed differently at each university, but usually after a researcher in the sciences is willing to hire you, NSERCs are given to students with the highest marks. Your supervisor should know about other awards you can apply for as it usually varies on the scope of the research. Another popular example for cardiovascular research in Ontario are the John D Schultz awards from the Heart and Stroke Foundation.

 

What if my supervisor has no money to pay me?

I suppose this is always a possibility, especially if your supervisor has already agreed to hire a couple students in the summer. This is where the external scholarships really help (see above). You can also decide whether it would be worthwhile to volunteer for free for decent experience. Don't be surprised if that may not go over well since research takes real dedication and volunteers have limited ties to the work. See if your university offers independent study courses that you can tie in with your research.

 

What can I expect to do as an undergrad?

It certainly depends on the kind of work you will be doing as well as your research group. It also depends how much time you have to offer. I think the best opportunities are when you have your own project, figuring out how to answer a question and tackling the problem. If you can work 5 hours a week, this may not get you very far. Many times as you learn the ropes, you are teamed up with a grad student who can help you out in the beginning. A summer may seem like a long time to get a project accomplished, but you can spend a size-able chunk of time just getting proficient with your scientific techniques, brushing up on the literature or getting ethics approval. Oftentimes, research is not even 9-5 and can lead to sporadic hours (how I hate 12-hour time points!).

 

What are publications all about?

There are different kinds of publications, which I will categorize into the published manuscripts you see on pubmed and poster/oral presentations you do at conferences (could also be institutional research days). It is a good experience to present your results from your research, whether at local arenas like a summer student research day or if luckier a bigger regional, national, or international conference. This is usually when you'd give oral or poster presentations or your name would be included on a presentation given by someone else in your research team. It is also possible for your work to be significant to be written in a journal article. If your research is the sole focus of the paper and you write the article, then you are likely be the first author. If your research is only a part of the presented work, you could be included as a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc author. Personally, I think publications are a bonus for doing great research but there is a big element of luck in the process (whether your project had positive results, whether your supervisor likes to include undergrad students on publications, etc). As an undergrad, your goal should be to learn about the project, see whether you enjoy research, etc and NOT to be pushing out publications. Medical schools don't care if you have pubs but they don't hurt if you have them. If you are adamant about writing a paper, talk to your supervisor before your start your project to see if they think that is a realistic goal. Here is a thread where getting published as an undergrad is debated: link.

 

Research Links

General article on medical student publishing from the CMAJ:

http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/176/12/1719

 

Here is a general overview of research programs:

http://www.fmd.uwo.ca/research/newwebsite04/medstudents_nonSRTP.html

 

Greater Toronto Area

Sick Kids - http://www.sickkids.ca/SSuRe/

IMS - http://www.library.utoronto.ca/ims/programs/summer.htm

Banting/Best - http://www.bbdc.org/fundingOpp/summer.htm

Medical Biophysics - http://medbio.wisst.utoronto.ca/

IBBME - http://www.ibbme.utoronto.ca/programs/undergraduate/summer.htm

 

Ontario

Genomics - http://www.ontariogenomics.ca/education/ogi_fellowship.asp

Cardiovascular - http://www.hsf.ca/research/en/provincial-programs/ontario-john-d.-schultz-scient-student-scholarship.html

 

Canada

Canadian Blood Services - http://www.bloodservices.ca/CentreApps/Internet/UW_V502_MainEngine.nsf/page/E_SIP?OpenDocument

Canadian Language and Literacy - http://www.cllrnet.ca/index.php?fa=UGRA.show

RISE (Reactive Intermediates Student Exchange) - http://www.risecanada.ca/

 

I am sure there are countless others (sorry for those out West and East, let me know and I can add links).

 

Here are some previous threads on research:

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19240

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20414

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19971

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19849

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19847

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19732

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19495

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19404

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19342

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19243

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18611

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18646

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18639

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18593

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12421

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12320

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8354

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3441

 

 

Let me know if you'd like anything added to the FAQ.

[lostintime]

This is somewhat related, but I just wanted some advice. I couldn't do a whole summer of research for various reasons, but I'll be done everything and MCAT by July 13. Does it seem plausible to do an independent study course starting from then, working about 3-4 days a week at the lab until mid-August and get a half credit? And then continue with the same prof to do a 4th year honors project if everything worked out. If not, I wouldn't be stranded in a bad project whereas if I start in September, I wouldn't have much of a choice.

 

But is 1 month enough to get a mini-thesis done? (it's only half a credit, so I would think the expectations would be less than a honors thesis student). Thanks!

[Smurfette]

Does it seem plausible to do an independent study course starting from then, working about 3-4 days a week at the lab until mid-August and get a half credit? And then continue with the same prof to do a 4th year honors project if everything worked out. If not, I wouldn't be stranded in a bad project whereas if I start in September, I wouldn't have much of a choice.

 

But is 1 month enough to get a mini-thesis done? (it's only half a credit, so I would think the expectations would be less than a honors thesis student). Thanks!

 

I guess it depends on your lab, but from my experience, I think 1-month is too short to really get anything done, especially if you don't have any experience in that lab and that field yet. If you want to see whether the lab is a right fit for you, just ask the prof whether you can come in for a week or so to get "oriented" to the lab for your 4th year thesis.

[fletch]

If given the opportunity to do an honours research project or to get paid for summer research, which would look/sound better?

[AMmd]

get paid! well i did both... but i would prefer to be paid

[blinknoodle]

I guess it depends on your lab, but from my experience, I think 1-month is too short to really get anything done, especially if you don't have any experience in that lab and that field yet. If you want to see whether the lab is a right fit for you, just ask the prof whether you can come in for a week or so to get "oriented" to the lab for your 4th year thesis.

 

I agree with getting a head start on your thesis, if only for purely bureaucratic reasons. I started in my thesis lab a month early to learn the techniques so I could do it by myself in the school year. I also did all the animal handling and WHMIS courses which was a great help as it would've been a pain to do them once school resumed.

[bane]

If given the opportunity to do an honours research project or to get paid for summer research, which would look/sound better?

 

 

Why would you want to do an Honors Project? honestly. if you are doing it just so you can put something in the research column on the OMSAS application sketch- DONT BOTHER. i know people will disagree with me, but i think an honors project is less than its made out to be. heres why:

 

first off, its far less work to get great marks in three classes (at my school anyway) than it is to put in 20+hrs/week into an honors project. theres no point getting an A+ the hard way when you can do it the easy way. not to mention, there is absolutely no guarantee that you will fo well. you can put in the hours, but giving a mark for an honors project is very subjective. put in the work into 3 classes, and you can secure a good mark. NOT as clear cut for an honors project.

 

research is either a love it or hate it thing. its very normal to put everything youve got into an experiment, and it bites the dust. if you hate getting nothing for everything, avoid research.

 

research projects arent like a summer nserc. if your stuff doesnt work out by the end of the summer, not a problem, you were going to take the week off anyway. it was only for the summer and it doesnt have anything to do with your gpa. an Hon. project (HP) is part of your 4th year GPA (9 credits at my school). if theres one year you dont want to screw up, its your 4th because of weighting. HP's are different in that your mark is pretty much all about results and no matter how hard you try, you might not get them. if you dont get results, a lot of that work is wasted, and you can get a crap mark. yes, the avergae for projects is supposed to be an A-, but if you get an A- in a 9credit course, thats a big hit. not a good risk.

 

also, good luck finding a supervisor who is as nice throughout the year as they are when you first met him/her. my fiends would argue that they've got dictators to deal with. i know a few keeners will post here that theyve had great profs, loved them like a parent, etc, but thats not that common. its usually your friends in the lab that make it more enjoyable.

 

a lot of people start an HP thinking that it shows youre a competent student, its perstigous, and being able to secure a project spot means youre a smart kid. but really, it doesnt matter, especially when your undergrad is worth a number out of 4.0 in the end.

 

also, i think research is counting for less. Mac doesnt care, especially since you can talk about other things in your 5 q's. uOttawa doesnt really care if you have other EC's, even sports. uofT might care the most, but even if you have many publications, you still need a solid essay and you can do that without research. UWO doesnt even need to know about it to get an interview from them. and Queens, pretty much same deal.

 

an HP is not worth it. ask around and i bet you will find more people who say that theres better ways to spend your 4th year.

[Smurfette]

LOL, a thesis isn't that bad. A few things to add:

 

(1) Depending on the school/program, you might not get a choice. At UBC, I know I have to do a thesis in order to satisfy my honours requirement.

 

(2) It's true that there are some not-so-nice supervisors. But for summer research, it's the same problem - your life will be pretty miserable working for a summer under someone you don't like. Make sure your supervisor is good before you work in his/her lab. One way to do that is to talk to other students that have worked for him (undergrads, grad students).

 

(3) Every school/program has different marking schemes for an honours project. Sometimes it is results based. Sometimes it is NOT. Often it has to do with whether your project question makes sense, did you read up on the background material, can you do presentations, etc... If you're worried about getting a bad mark because your results didn't go as planned, then find out what the marking scheme is before you decide to do it.

 

(4) I disagree that an undergrad is worth a number out of 4.0. It's also worth the experiences you had - ie. what you learned, whether you had a good time, etc. That may or may not include a thesis project - whether that's true or not is up to you to decide.

 

(5) I do agree that research is worth less and less from a med application point of view, except perhaps at Toronto.

 

(6) Time committment is an issue. How the project works depends on your supervisor and on your department/program. Some programs put a maximum limit on the amount of time that students can spend in the lab per week in order to prevent supervisors from overworking their students. But either way, I would ask around about your supervisor before making a committment.

 

Bottom line: An honours project (and the same goes for summer research) may or may not be something that's for you. What it entails is very program/supervisor specific. So make sure you know what you're getting yourself into before doing it.

 

P.S. I did an honours project this year and found it fairly rewarding. However, I have worked for my supervisor previously (summer research) and I knew beforehand that the time committment was going to be very flexible and that I would get any support for the project that I needed.

[Jochi1543]

Doesn't UWO require an Honors degree?

[JOTCH]

Doesn't UWO require an Honors degree?

 

Starting on the next application cycle.

[Smurfette]

Starting on the next application cycle.

 

Nope, starting THIS application cycle (ie. the cycle that has just completed the interviews).

 

However, "honours" degree means different things at different universities...

[bane]

LOL, a thesis isn't that bad. A few things to add:

 

(1) Depending on the school/program, you might not get a choice. At UBC, I know I have to do a thesis in order to satisfy my honours requirement.

 

(2) It's true that there are some not-so-nice supervisors. But for summer research, it's the same problem - your life will be pretty miserable working for a summer under someone you don't like. Make sure your supervisor is good before you work in his/her lab. One way to do that is to talk to other students that have worked for him (undergrads, grad students).

 

(3) Every school/program has different marking schemes for an honours project. Sometimes it is results based. Sometimes it is NOT. Often it has to do with whether your project question makes sense, did you read up on the background material, can you do presentations, etc... If you're worried about getting a bad mark because your results didn't go as planned, then find out what the marking scheme is before you decide to do it.

 

(4) I disagree that an undergrad is worth a number out of 4.0. It's also worth the experiences you had - ie. what you learned, whether you had a good time, etc. That may or may not include a thesis project - whether that's true or not is up to you to decide.

 

(5) I do agree that research is worth less and less from a med application point of view, except perhaps at Toronto.

 

(6) Time committment is an issue. How the project works depends on your supervisor and on your department/program. Some programs put a maximum limit on the amount of time that students can spend in the lab per week in order to prevent supervisors from overworking their students. But either way, I would ask around about your supervisor before making a committment.

 

Bottom line: An honours project (and the same goes for summer research) may or may not be something that's for you. What it entails is very program/supervisor specific. So make sure you know what you're getting yourself into before doing it.

 

P.S. I did an honours project this year and found it fairly rewarding. However, I have worked for my supervisor previously (summer research) and I knew beforehand that the time committment was going to be very flexible and that I would get any support for the project that I needed.

 

@Smurfette,

 

thats the key. you need to know your supervisor will give you a great mark BEFORE you even start, you need to be able to work flexible hours and be able to say no when you dont want to put in time, and you need someone who wont get pissed if you ask too many questions.

 

finding all these parts in a research lab is a challenge, and i think without all three, its not worth the pain in the behind.

[Jochi1543]

Nope, starting THIS application cycle (ie. the cycle that has just completed the interviews).

 

However, "honours" degree means different things at different universities...

I remember being so confused about this. I DID write a semester-long research thesis for my US degree, but everyone was required to either do an independent project or a 4th-year seminar.....A few of my friends did "Honors" projects, which were year-long endeavours that required them to defend their theses in front of a group of faculty (as well as any willing student attendees). My research was just between me and my project supervisor - no one else was involved in evaluating it. But when I e-mailed Western to ask about it, their answer was "what we mean is the kind of degree that would allow you to get straight into a master's program." And yes, I can totally get into a Master's program with my degree.....so yeah, scratch that, I don't just remember being confused, I still AM confused.

[a41]

@Smurfette,

 

thats the key. you need to know your supervisor will give you a great mark BEFORE you even start, you need to be able to work flexible hours and be able to say no when you dont want to put in time, and you need someone who wont get pissed if you ask too many questions.

 

finding all these parts in a research lab is a challenge, and i think without all three, its not worth the pain in the behind.

 

Absolutely. I am preparing my final oral presentation right now for my thesis project, and looking back, I feel really sorry for people who just chose whatever prof was available because they had to (thesis is a requirement for my program).

[ffp]

I think that whether or not you will enjoy an honours lab project depends on your personality and learning style. I liked it for several reasons:

 

1. Flexible hours. We were told that we would need to spend ~12hr/wk in the lab, but honestly, this depended on the individual project requirements. Sometimes this involved 12hr days, and sometimes I could go 2-3 weeks without setting foot in the lab. Once I got used to performing the experiments on my own, I could come and go at will. If I wanted to go to the lab at midnight on a Thursday, I could be there blaring my music and playing computer games while waiting for my cells to incubate. These flexible hours were in tune with my diurnal sleeping habits, my social life, and my full-time job. Big bonus there!!

 

2. Credit for a full-year course with no need to purchase a textbook or course materials = $$$ saved.

 

3. I enjoyed the fact that I was actually DOING something practical, rather than sitting in the classroom. I had learned the theory behind protein synthesis, cell adhesion, chromatography, etc... well, now I was seeing it in real-time and doing it with my own hands. For a "hands-on" learner like me, this was very significant. I was essentially doing asthma research on a cellular level. I could actually extrapolate my results to explain clinical findings in patients with asthma. I found this very cool. I also enjoyed the fact that instead of being bored to tears in lecture and memorizing dry facts to pass a stupid exam, I was really using my brain - analyzing my results and trying to fit my findings into the context of our hypothesis, and the research others had done before me. I really enjoyed this.

 

I'm hardly a basic-science research keener. In fact, this project pretty much solidified in my mind that I DIDN'T want to do grad school, or work as a lab tech. It was a worthwhile experience for me, though.

 

I do agree that you have to carefully choose your preceptor. I went through the catalogue of supervisors and met with 4 or 5 who were doing interesting research. Most of them were like job interviews - they were interrogating ME! I met some of them in their offices and didn't even see the inside of their labs. I chose my preceptor because she was young, enthusiastic, and actually trying to SELL the project to me! She took me to the lab, showed me movies about cellular adhesion, and took me for lunch with her grad students. It was still a cr@pshoot, but I ended up lucking out. She was a supportive, easygoing preceptor, and I really enjoyed working with her grad students, lab tech, and the 3rd year biochem major in the lab. I also met lots of people from the adjacent labs, including some med students doing projects there. My preceptor was always taking us out for lunch, for drinks after work, and she invited us all to her house for American Thanksgiving (she was from the US).

 

You should find out in advance whether your mark will be results-based. I was lucky enough to get good results, but some people I know weren't so lucky. One guy got an A in the course, because he talked about the background to his project, his hypothesis and project design. he then explained his results and gave a nice, detailed discussion as to why his experiments might not have worked. On the other hand, I know someone else whose whole project was a bust. Some piece of equipment that she needed was not available, but her preceptor kept telling her it would be coming. When it finally came, it was too late. Her preceptor actually wanted her to present "fake" data... not for publication, of course, but just so she would have something to present at research day. The whole year was basically wasted for her, and I think she got a mediocre grade... so you don't wanna get caught up in something like that.

[lostintime]

Thanks for the advice everyone! I kind of forgot about posting here lol. I guess a month is really too short to do anything =( I guess I'll go to interviews w/ potential supervisors to see what is expected of me. I've found though that some are awesome during the interview, but everything changes when you start actually working for them.

[lostintime]

Oh I have another question, is there a big difference b/w "honours 4th year thesis" vs. another research project, i.e. in 2nd or third year? What is considered a "thesis project"? Like I didn't do one for 4th year, but I had to write a looong paper which my PI said had to be in the form of a manuscript, plus a presentation. It was essentially the same as a 4th year course, but not given the 4th year code. Would this still be a "thesis course"?

[lll]

have a quick qn....if the research position that you are in is about administrative work like faxing, filing, labeling, shredding, collating mail-out packages and study binders as well updating a research and literature databases with new information.....will it be still considered as that student has worked in a research...like will it be considered to be the same as what NSERC students do?

[lostintime]

How much work do you have to contribute to get your name on a paper/abstract? What if you started a project, did all the grunt work for it, got data that helped people see what the "Expected results" were, and then someone takes over and finishes the project. Do you think person 1 deserves credit on the paper/abstract? Or is it only people who directly helped to contribute to getting the data and writing the paper?

[ducky]

http://www.icmje.org/#author

 

ICMJE guidelines

 

generally, you have to have made an intellectual contribution to the research, i.e. protocol design, data analysis, or writing of the paper. Data collection is not grounds for authorship, though some PIs may put you on the paper for that. Journals right now are quite stingy about authors on author lists and its now commonplace for them to ask for a specific description of what each of them did to justify their name being included.

[lostintime]

Well it was protocol design as well, considering the person who took over followed my protocol exactly and got similar results. Plus a lot of the other stuff you mentioned, i.e. data analysis and interpretation. What if it's interpretation of YOUR data that wasn't included in the paper, but other people just did more runs to get better data?

 

I guess it's a grey area, and PIs will vary on what they think about this.

[ducky]

It doesn't matter if they're analyzing data you collected, its still just data collection. You're right, it does depend heavily on the PI. The best way is to ask when you're going to start working on a project with someone. I know my PI always gives credit where credit is due, and I am also very aware of when I'll be doing something that I know I won't get credit for (i.e. publication). He is good at letting me know that kind of thing. I'd advise you to keep checking in with the lab on the project, just to keep yourself visible and then you can subtly make sure you get your name on the project.

[lostintime]

No, what I mean was that I interpreted my data, and they're basing their interpretations on my previous interpretations. The thing is that the PI promised that my name would be on the paper/abstract, but now it looks like it's not going to be. But PI's break promises all the time, eh? Yeah, I probably should've done that, but at the same time, I'm not the summer student anymore, so I guess I felt like I was intruding a bit if I kept trying to stay visible. I did mention I could help whenever, but I don't think they needed it.

[blinknoodle]

Edited original post to include link to CMAJ article on tips for (medical) student publishing:

http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/176/12/1719

[lostintime]

Is it a really bad thing if you wrote in your admissions essay about a potential publication (this was in October when I submitted essay) because that's what my PI said, but now it's STILL in the progress? I understand this is normal for research....but will the adcom think I was exaggerating back then? I specifically asked my PI and he said it was ok to put that, but now we keep getting delayed =(