Do faculty in med school make jabs at other professions?

[xylem29]

POOF! There it goes...

[The_B]

From what I can tell so far, it is almost the opposite in medicine. Every doctor is quick to point the need for the nursing staff, quick consults to the pharmacy, etc.

 

What you describe isn't something I haven't heard before from some nursing friends. My guess is that you were right, and that doctors currently enjoy the top run on the health care ladder, and therefore don't feel the need to run down other professions. All of the examples where a physician took issue with another in a different field, it was never because they were in that field, it was because of who they were/the job they did. Berating happens, somewhat more than it should, but I've never heard a doctor say: nurses!! or stupid RTs, or anything like that. It was "I need this now, make it happen!!! or something more person centered.

[Wolvenstar]

From what I can tell so far, it is almost the opposite in medicine. Every doctor is quick to point the need for the nursing staff, quick consults to the pharmacy, etc.

 

What you describe isn't something I haven't heard before from some nursing friends. My guess is that you were right, and that doctors currently enjoy the top run on the health care ladder, and therefore don't feel the need to run down other professions. All of the examples where a physician took issue with another in a different field, it was never because they were in that field, it was because of who they were/the job they did. Berating happens, somewhat more than it should, but I've never heard a doctor say: nurses!! or stupid RTs, or anything like that. It was "I need this now, make it happen!!! or something more person centered.

 

 

I generally have to agree with what was said here. I have heard of Doctors being demanding and possibly sounding condescending but it was more centered on a single person and not a whole profession. However I should point out that the health science department at my university tends to liken pharmacists to corporate businessmen, who are in it to make money and don't care about the people they sell to.

 

I doubt it this is entirely true, however with the idea that was being debated about by the government about giving pharmacists the power of prescription, I just wanted to add that even if it did pass, I would not go to a pharmacist for a prescription ever.

[oulala]

I guess it's not only that, but I know that people that I know who wants to be pharmacist have almost all wanted to be physician before but don't have the grades to get in. So may be there is some jealousy in those statements, but I find this ridiculous anyway. The different healthcare specialists should work together, not say things like that.

[Dr.Cave]

Chiroquackters and Naturo(psycho)paths get the piss taken out of them by many profs.

[Julie]

I dont remember ever hearing a faculty (or anyone else at school, for that matter) bring down other professions.

 

The closest I've seen would be a joke by a cardiologist about how "lungs are just cushions for the heart" or something like that. Of course they don't mean any of it, it's just humour. They're all just trying to convince us their specialty is the best. So maybe a slight friendly rivalry amongst different medical specialists on a few occasions, but not other professionals. Everyone's quick to acknowledge how so an so other professional will have spent more time with your patient so they will know them really well or how when you get to clerkship you should always listen to nurses as they have so much to teach you.

[abcwxyz]

Inferiority complex.

 

I've interacted with quite a few nurses and doctors in a hospital and outside. I notice that nurses very often badmouth specific doctors and doctors in general whether at work or doing non-work related things. I have never heard it go the other way.

 

The only time that I've heard a non-doctor health professional being dissed was when my virology PhD prof said that all modern pharmacists do is hand out prescriptions at the drug store, and that it requires no skill... while in the old days they used to mix medicines, et cetera.

[A-Stark]

I've never heard any prof make any remarks about other professions, though of course you have all the usual (reasonably good-humoured) rivalries *within* medicine.

[Laika]

The closest I've seen would be a joke by a cardiologist about how "lungs are just cushions for the heart" or something like that.

 

... and we were told in respirology that there are only two important organs in the chest: the left lung and the right lung.

[peachy]

I've never heard a prof or tutor badmouth another profession ... it's almost at the other extreme where we spend a really significant amount of time doing interprofessional work, spending time with allied health care providers, we're always graded on our ability to work with other types of providers, etc.

[Jochi1543]

As the title suggests - I wanted to know if med school faculty constantly make jabs at other health-care professions.

 

In pharmacy school, it's the in thing to do - constant jabs at MDs...

 

LOL, at my EMS school, my instructor can't get through a single day of class without cracking some joke about MDs.

[A-Stark]

Yeesh. Inferiority complex!

 

It's completely anecdotal, but reportedly the Dal nurses "hate" us.

[The_B]

Yeesh. Inferiority complex!

 

It's completely anecdotal, but reportedly the Dal nurses "hate" us.

 

In a sense though, do you blame them? I mean let's examine a nurse's exposure to medicine.

 

First we come as ignorant, and frankly, dumb clerks. Here they help us a great deal, despite the fact that at times, we "tell them what to do".... now I know it is never phrased in such a way, but when an order is made, it isn't the doc or medical student who actually caries it out, so in a sense, we have already established a power differential, despite there not being much of a knowledge one.

 

Then we are residents. Here, from what I understand, many of us become jaded. Those of us who avoid such things, are still dealing with grumpiness at 3am wake up calls from the nurses, who are simply doing their jobs. Frankly, I'd be getting a negative feeling about doctors too at this point.

 

Finally we become attendings, and although we may treat the nurses wonderfully, they still have the knowledge that they helped makes us what we are today...complete with salaries that can be 5-10x what they make. Plus, there is the knowledge that no matter your seniority, your job is, in part, to do what another tells you, no matter how fresh a face they are... and there is no hope, no matter how good you are at your job, of surpassing them in that power differential.

 

Frankly, I don't know how nurses do it sometimes. Having said that, my personality gravitated to medicine. I want the buck to stop with me, I like making decisions. My sister, who is a nurse, said she would never want the other side (that of a doctor), so really to each their own I guess.

 

But yeah, back to the point, it is no doubt partially an inferiority complex, which is inevitable when there is a power differential in a work place, but I can understand why/how bitterness could occur. Thankfully, most of the nurses I have met so far are extremely helpful and courteous people....so if they hate me, at least they hide it

[rogerroger]

Everyone needs a good dose of IPE. The administration more than anyone else... This goes for all professions btw.

[BrendanJ]

... and we were told in respirology that there are only two important organs in the chest: the left lung and the right lung.

 

Haha, we were getting a lecture on GU trauma from a Urologist and one student mentioned the possibility of referring to nephrology, to which the Urologist replied: "nephrology wouldn't know what to do with trauma, they'd probably give him steroids or something."

[ploughboy]

Haha, we were getting a lecture on GU trauma from a Urologist and one student mentioned the possibility of referring to nephrology, to which the Urologist replied: "nephrology wouldn't know what to do with trauma, they'd probably give him steroids or something."

 

What's the best thing about getting sick on an orthopaedics ward?

[monkey799]

 

MDs don't know how drugs work

 

MDs don't know how anti-biotics work (in fact, it was said that even nurses learn more about anti-biotics and their mode of action than MDs)

 

MDs do not think about side-effects of the drugs they presribe or they don't care

 

That's joke isn't it.

 

I'd welcome a challenge: MD vs pharmacists on drug knowledge.

 

Med students vs pharmacy students.

 

MDs vs pharmacists.

[Satsuma]

In med school much time is spent encouraging students to gain exposure to other health professions. In certain rotations we spend time with PTs, OTs, SLPs, RDs, pharmacists and pretty much we could spend a day in whatever we would want if we wanted to set it up, and the faculty would encourage it.

 

I have not heard any faculty at any stage of med school (classroom or clinical rotations) badmouth another profession (jabs at other specialties within medicine aside).

 

When I was training as an SLP we also spent alot of time on "the interdisciplinary team" and seeing what OT and PT did etc. But on reflexion I recall we did not spend any time talking about the role of the physician. I guess maybe everyone assumes they know what physicians do.

 

But I bet that if allied health spent a day with a physician they may come out with a different perspective. Now there are some great nurses out there. But a few of them could benefit from doing a 30 hour call...maybe then they would think twice when calling at 4:00 am to ask for a gravol order when there is already one on the chart, or to let you know someone's BP is 90/50 without looking to see that their BP has been that since they've been admitted etc. It is those nurses that generally will get the grumpy response...because they actually aren`t doing their job. The ones that are doing their jobs, call you for good reasons. But for the majority of nurses are great. Like in every profession you get bad apples and people having bad days. It happens...it isn`t profession specific.

 

Anyway....why can't we all just get along!

[A-Stark]

I recall now that one of the histology lab instructors (an MD/PhD) remarked that we should pay attention lest we end up as physician assistants. Most of us didn't get it and, in any case, thought it was very inappropriate.

[ploughboy]

But I bet that if allied health spent a day with a physician they may come out with a different perspective. Now there are some great nurses out there. But a few of them could benefit from doing a 30 hour call...maybe then they would think twice when calling at 4:00 am to ask for a gravol order when there is already one on the chart, or to let you know someone's BP is 90/50 without looking to see that their BP has been that since they've been admitted etc. It is those nurses that generally will get the grumpy response...because they actually aren`t doing their job. The ones that are doing their jobs, call you for good reasons. But for the majority of nurses are great. Like in every profession you get bad apples and people having bad days. It happens...it isn`t profession specific.

 

Anyway....why can't we all just get along!

 

Preach it, sister.

[grobz]

I am hoping for urology and recently heard this on the OR.

 

The heart is the organ the makes sure the cipro gets to the prostate.

[Halcyon]

I recall now that one of the histology lab instructors (an MD/PhD) remarked that we should pay attention lest we end up as physician assistants. Most of us didn't get it and, in any case, thought it was very inappropriate.

 

Yes, a bit harsh. As more PA's enter the workforce, maybe the PA vs MD battle will emerge. Hopefully not...

[truffle]

MDs do not care about the irresponsible use of anti-biotics and the development of resistance (ie. physicians are irresponsible in their anti-biotic prescribing habits)

 

i think i know an explanation for this. there are some patients that believe in anti-biotics for cold/flu and are difficult to persuade. if you refuse to prescribe, you run a risk of them thinking you are incompetent, running to another physician and wasting tax payers' money. and most/many patients want the reassurance of knowing that their physician gave them something (the placebo effect can be significant, both physically and emotionally). the motivations of physicians can be to save resources (their own time, other physicians' time, tax payer's $$$), and/or make their patients happy.

 

to side-track a little, there are patients who think they have illnesses but do show any detectable underlying cause. some of these maybe have real diseases that science has not solved yet, but this is not true for all of these patients. doctors aren't allowed to tell them that everything's all in their head because they may be considered by the patients to be callous and uncaring. and they have to do 'something' for them, because the patients may run off to other doctors and waste a bunch of taxpayers' money on tests and everything. and they may even sue the doctors who refuse to treat them.

 

disclaimer: i believe that psychosomatic syndromes can have presentations that are as real as physical illnesses. and i do not claim to be an expert in the issue i discussed. if any of you med students and MDs out there see some error in what i said, please point it out.

[med.student]

I think this is a very individual thing. The majority of physicians, nurses and pharmacists I know are respectful of their colleagues in other health professions... but I know INDIVIDUALS in each field who are always trashing other health care professionals.....

 

i agree with ffp. it is what is their state of mind, they are expressing their true inner self by showing hatred or anger on some person or thing. its like a child throwing tantrums. some people do it to vent out themselves. some do it to feel important since they feel so small from within.

[webshy]

This article was sent to me today. While not directly related to the original question (and fairly one-sided), it does remind us of the importance of interprofessional relations that have been discussed by some of the above posters.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/02/health/02rage.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1&em

 

Personally, having worked as an allied health care professional before entering medical school, I got very frustrated when the medical students or residents wouldn't listen. I rarely found that the attending physicians didn't take the time to listed to what we (the paramedics) had to say about the patient though.

 

Elaine