Law school vs. Med school

[Laura_333]

Hey all,

 

Just curious what your nonbiased (haha) opinions are on this topic. Recently I was at a dinner party and my friend was talking about her boyfriend applying to law school in Canada and how difficult it is. She then said that it’s more difficult to get into law school than even medical school (she then awkwardly looked at me knowing I'm trying to get into med school). My initial desire was to give some remark about med being harder, but that would have only been based on pride, so I simply ignored the comment. However, I'm curious if anyone knows the process of getting into law school compared to med school? I always thought med was more competitive, but now I'm not really sure what I base that opinion on.

 

Thanks!

[srindogg@hotmail.com]

In terms of GPA and EC's, law school is MUCH easier to get in to then Med school. But.... the LSAT is wack!!! Imagine if the MCAT was only Verbal, tourturous....

[Octavius]

That is complete and utter bull****. Sure some schools are hard like UT (3.8+/high 80) but my friends that have applied everywhere said a low 80 average would do (generally) with maybe an 80%'ile LSAT. But for most law schools, all that is required is an LSAT and GPA (according to my sources), interview is usually a formality/tie breaker and is typically unusual. Med school is GPA 3.8+, 80%'ile MCAT about - and remember, MCAT requires prior science knowledge that you must study whereas LSAT does not require prior knowledge. Then you get mowed down by an interview for med school (all med schools interview in Canada). Some law schools may interview...In addition, med schools have pre-requisites in the sciences, law does not have hard pre-requisites.

 

Anyway she was just trying to pump the value of her boyfriend - does she know what the medical process is like? Someone pulled that stunt with me and my buddy today talking about her ex getting into Osgoode when my buddy said he's heading off to law school next September. Anyway correct me if I'm wrong but that's the information have gotten thusfar...I know 5 people that have gotten into law. I think I was shown a figure today from Windsor, average entrance GPA is around a 3.3. You'd be ****ed with a 3.3 for med school in every province.

[Octavius]

The LSAT has a logical reasoning section, logic games, reading comprehension (equivalent to our verbal with 5 choices) in 25 minutes (we're worse timewise), and a written section that isn't even marked. It's not all verbal. It's just logic but its fair game, there's an objective answer to it and no reading between gray lines like MCAT verbal. Their reading comprehension is comparatively hard I hear from people that have taken both. The general verdict is that the LSAT is much easier. You can mobilize for an LSAT in 1 month, and MCAT will take far longer depending on your knowledge of the sciences.

[youngdad]

Depends if you suck or not. How do you compare the two? The only way is to compare the number of applicants vs accepted for each school. Whoever has the highest app:accept ratio is harder to get into. Law and med look for different stuff and it depends on how the applicant fits with the rest of the cohort. Compare a total goof who wants to get into law with a well rounded well spoken person gunning for med and it will look like law is harder to get into.

[The Law]

Meh, what does it even matter? She was just trying to feel good about her boyfriend. I'd just ignore it.

 

Edit:

(Of course, Meds is harder. )

[FABS]

bahahahaha i have to tell this story as its the funniest thing, i apologize in advance if i come off sounding rude or mean...

 

i know a girl from highschool who got into windsor law, and I can honestly say, in the nicest way possible, that she isnt the brightest crayon in the box

 

in gr 12, we were writing a major exam worth 40% of our final mark. After the exam, we were discussing how we think we did and i asked her about section B:

 

me: "how did you find section B"

 

her: "section B? where was that...I only did Section A and C"

 

me: "ummm section B was on the back of the section A page, it was also inbetween section A and C"

 

her: "OMG, I didnt turn the page over....."

 

needless to say, we were all very surprised when she got into law school lol

 

so, those are my somewhat biased thoughts on which is harder...

[FABS]

however, counterarguement to my previous post....i think the MCAT and LSAT test two very different streams of intelligence. Many say the LSAT is based on common sense, logic, critical thinking, and it is very hard to practice/study for; while the majority of the MCAT is based on practical, quantitative problems that are manageable to practice/study for.....

 

I know ppl who have a high GPA and rock one exam and bomb the other....i would def agree that the admissions process for med is a little more intense

[Alastriss]

Ok a few things:

 

- windsor law school is a school that upon getting admitted to, people have second thoughts about going there and would contemplate reapplying. It is NOT like Meds where the schools are all good.

 

- significantly easier to get into in terms of gpa and ecs, and the lsat is DIFFERENT but I didn't find it hard when I did a practice for kicks way back. I found my research and science background made the reasoning sections a walk in the park, the VR section is slightly easier than our VR, and the logic game are tough (at least for me) but there are algorithms that make them a lot easier.

 

youngdad - not a good way to look at it. You assumed that the populations would be the same in composition (see this kinda stuff is what the lsat tests). For example. you competing with 4 harvard grads with stellar CVs for 1 spot may be more difficult than competing against 19 grads from a no-name university with mediocre CVs for 1 spot.

 

 

IMO the LSAT and MCAT are similar - you need to be a critical thinker. The difference is for the mcat, in addition to being a critical thinker, you need to learn specific disciplines of knowledge which are the realm in which critical thinking is exercised. It is less.."esoteric"(..or some derivative of that word at least).

[youngdad]

Ok a few things:

 

- windsor law school is a school that upon getting admitted to, people have second thoughts about going there and would contemplate reapplying. It is NOT like Meds where the schools are all good.

 

- significantly easier to get into in terms of gpa and ecs, and the lsat is DIFFERENT but I didn't find it hard when I did a practice for kicks way back. I found my research and science background made the reasoning sections a walk in the park, the VR section is slightly easier than our VR, and the logic game are tough (at least for me) but there are algorithms that make them a lot easier.

 

youngdad - not a good way to look at it. You assumed that the populations would be the same in composition (see this kinda stuff is what the lsat tests). For example. you competing with 4 harvard grads with stellar CVs for 1 spot may be more difficult than competing against 19 grads from a no-name university with mediocre CVs for 1 spot.

 

 

IMO the LSAT and MCAT are similar - you need to be a critical thinker. The difference is for the mcat, in addition to being a critical thinker, you need to learn specific disciplines of knowledge which are the realm in which critical thinking is exercised. It is less.."esoteric"(..or some derivative of that word at least).

 

I see your point. But what does any of that have to do with med apps vs law apps. You are always going to get a range of applications and by very nature of the beast some are the top and some are the bottom. Kind of like the MCAT: it doesn't matter what the raw score is, the whole group is looked at and the 50th percentile score is an 8 for that section. Basically the same for admissions.

You might be arguing about the nature of minimum criteria to apply. If there are ridiculous differences in work that students need to have accomplished than perhaps one may be easier than another. But to me, applicants are always competing against other applicants. The more there are for a given number of spots, the tougher it is to stand out in the crowd.

I see Law's point now too. Who cares?

[THX]

This should tell you pretty much all you need to know about Law school versus Medical school admissions. Osgoode is arguable the most prestigious law school in Canada and this is the profile of their entering class:

 

3.70 to 4.00 GPA: 127

3.40 to 3.69 GPA: 104

3.00 to 3.39 GPA: 32

< 3.00 GPA : 25

 

<50 Percentile LSAT: 13

50-59 Percentile LSAT: 3

60-69 Percentile LSAT: 23

70-79 Percentile LSAT: 55

80-89 Percentile LSAT: 117

90+ Percentile LSAT: 77

 

Class Size: 288 students

 

It's my impression, that if you are a good student and do decently well on the LSAT then you can get into law school - and you can also be admitted if you have something that overshadows your lesser grades (there's probably some favoritism/nepotism going on too). For medicine, you can be a great student and have done well on the MCAT and still failed to be admitted. The difference between the two programs is more of a reflection of the limitations of Canadian medical schools than the caliber of students being admitted to law.

[future_doc]

In terms of GPA and EC's, law school is MUCH easier to get in to then Med school. But.... the LSAT is wack!!!/QUOTE]

 

And then there are law schools and med schools in the Province of Quebec where you have the two tier system: the brightest of the brightest from Cegep (equivalent to a 2 year college) and those seeking an undergrad degree first (who apply just like in other provinces). No LSAT/MSAT.

 

For law applicants, at least from Cegep, McGill says one thing and does another, e.g., they claim to be interested in diversity of a student body, but this is not the reality. They like the poly sc type who attend mock UN, do debating, etc. If you happen to enjoy drama, the arts, ballet, you are more likely not to be invited for an interview as a potential law student no matter how qualified you are academically and how you excel in E.C.s. This is not the case with McGill med school. McGill Law School acts like you are seeking to join a secret society and are not fair in their approach despite being involved in "law" whereas this does not exist at the French speaking law schools that are just as good. In fact, University of Montreal, an excellent law school, will not interview you and accept you on the basis of your credentials and personal statement, but this is not the case for their med school where you have the MMI.

 

Generally speaking, med school is much harded to get into than law school anywhere in Canada.

[n00b]

I think law school is easier to get in. Partly because as a med school graduate, you are licensed to practice no matter what so there are some standards, whereas as a law school graduate you still need to prove yourself and could very well have zero business.

[astudentis]

This should tell you pretty much all you need to know about Law school versus Medical school admissions. Osgoode is arguable the most prestigious law school in Canada and this is the profile of their entering class:

 

3.70 to 4.00 GPA: 127

3.40 to 3.69 GPA: 104

3.00 to 3.39 GPA: 32

< 3.00 GPA : 25

 

<50 Percentile LSAT: 13

50-59 Percentile LSAT: 3

60-69 Percentile LSAT: 23

70-79 Percentile LSAT: 55

80-89 Percentile LSAT: 117

90+ Percentile LSAT: 77

 

Class Size: 288 students

 

It's my impression, that if you are a good student and do decently well on the LSAT then you can get into law school - and you can also be admitted if you have something that overshadows your lesser grades (there's probably some favoritism/nepotism going on too). For medicine, you can be a great student and have done well on the MCAT and still failed to be admitted. The difference between the two programs is more of a reflection of the limitations of Canadian medical schools than the caliber of students being admitted to law.

 

 

How many of those do you think are pre-meds

[LawDoc79]

Just wanted to offer my opinion. Having been through the application process for both law school and med school I have to say that the process for med school seems much more difficult and involved. I've practiced law for the last 3 years and am now awaiting the decision of my med school application - fingers crossed.

[Alastriss]

I see your point. But what does any of that have to do with med apps vs law apps. You are always going to get a range of applications and by very nature of the beast some are the top and some are the bottom. Kind of like the MCAT: it doesn't matter what the raw score is, the whole group is looked at and the 50th percentile score is an 8 for that section. Basically the same for admissions.

You might be arguing about the nature of minimum criteria to apply. If there are ridiculous differences in work that students need to have accomplished than perhaps one may be easier than another. But to me, applicants are always competing against other applicants. The more there are for a given number of spots, the tougher it is to stand out in the crowd.

I see Law's point now too. Who cares?

 

I just said it to point out that the ratio isn't everything so we can't really use that to compare, although you will probably have stellar applicants in both pools so it shouldn't really matter. I get the percentile thing but like THX posted it isn't ALL about percentile:

If you have 10 seats and 10,000 applicants applying and take the standardized test, even top 1% may not be enough (100 people - still tough to go for 10 spots). This is a gross exaggeration but you see my point.

 

It comes down to limitations of med schools. As a result, it is easier to get into law schools because there are less negative externalities clouding the direct fruits of your labors in the academic sense.

 

Who cares? well no one really does. Obviously this thread is just us debating semantics for entertainment. No purpose really.

[Alastriss]

I think law school is easier to get in. Partly because as a med school graduate, you are licensed to practice no matter what so there are some standards, whereas as a law school graduate you still need to prove yourself and could very well have zero business.

 

Well both have to still put effort after they graduate. However as a lawyer if you want to make partner you have to really sell yourself and prove yourself. If you don't you can still make good money and live very comfortably - you will just make more if you do make partner..a lot more. So it isn't all or nothing.

[elemenoepe]

I know a couple people who applied to med 2 or 3 times with no success and then applied to law as a back up and got in on their first attempt. Maybe I am biased, but I think there is no question that med is harder to get into, IMHO.

[Jochi1543]

How many of those do you think are pre-meds

 

LOL LOL LOL.

[Talon01]

How can you possibly have a ginuwine interesting in both becoming a lawyer or a doctor? Unless you want to work in some aspect of health care related law?

[n00b]

Well both have to still put effort after they graduate. However as a lawyer if you want to make partner you have to really sell yourself and prove yourself. If you don't you can still make good money and live very comfortably - you will just make more if you do make partner..a lot more. So it isn't all or nothing.

 

Yeah it's just relative

[Jamer]

It depends a lot on the school. I have a friend who got into U of C with a 75th percentile LSAT and a modest GPA/ECs. But getting into some of the tougher schools is just as hard as getting into med. Because there's a few joke schools (Windsor, to a lesser degree U of C, etc), unlike med, law school is easier to get into on average

[flamesfan]

the difficulty is relative. for law school there is such a high emphasis on LSAT/GPA and almost no evaluation of extra curriculars. there is also no interview.

 

for med, not only do you have to have at least a strong GPA/MCAT but your extra currics and interview are just as important. there is clearly more work involved to apply to med and the schools are on par with each other, increasing the competitiveness.

 

as jamer pointed out, there is a ranking of law schools and some schools are quite lax in standards in relation to another. BUT the fundamental difference is how one finally practices. law school is the easy part since you have to pass the bar and then work your way up the chain. in med school, getting in is the hardest part and although it never gets easier, once you are in, you are good to go

 

on a whole, law school (not the profession) is definitely easier if you consider a) all of the schools one can apply to you still have to pass the bar c) you still arent guaranteed to make partner/crown prosecutor etc.

[future_doc]

the difficulty is relative. for law school there is such a high emphasis on LSAT/GPA and almost no evaluation of extra curriculars. there is also no interview.

 

This is not totally true. McGill Law School very definitely looks at and evaluates all E.C.s. There is an Interview process and not all top candidates are invivted. And for cegep applicants, there is no LSAT (I don't know if they use LSAT for undergrad students).

 

However, relatively speaking, it is a walk in the park getting into law school compared to med school.

[Wut?]

My opinion is that that going to medical school affords relatively better job stability and 'less variable' income than law school, but you give up other 'pros' afforded by a career in law.

 

However, I'd say the two are otherwise incomparable. Two completely different skill sets - I'd make a terrible lawyer, and would not enjoy the line of work.