Looking for some perspective on my next step

[w8kg6]

Hey guys I posted this in the general thread, but I know some of you may not check that one, and I'm also especially interested to hear your take on this, given that you're much more informed on the specifics of Dalhousie and the upcoming changes it's going through re: NB education:

 

Hey all, thanks for checking out the thread. It's not some naive first year asking about their chances... it's a naive fifth year asking about them, lol. Seriously though, I'm looking for a bit of perspective about which route is the best for me to take at this point. I've got a few options available to me, and as far as I know, there has been no prescedent for them, so I'd like to put this out there and get PM101's take.

 

First off, my stats:

 

GPA: 3.6 OMSAS overall, 3.65ish OMSAS best two years

MCAT: 28S first attempt (10-8-10), 31S second attempt (10-10-11)

 

ECs: 2 years varsity athletics, canada games athlete, 2 years hospital volunteering experience (working directly with children in peds ward), 1 year special olympics coach, 1 year vice president of engineers without borders, 6 months job shadowing with physician, regular small things (orientation committee etc.)

 

Work experience: Pulp mill summer student (not very relevant, but just for posterity's sake), summer kayaking guide, housekeeping crew at Panorama Mountain Village (basically a cleaning lady... even though I'm a guy), online tutor (25 hrs/week during the schoolyear, did this for 2.5 years).

 

Where I'm at right now:

 

I applied to Dal last year, and was rejected. I applied to MUN and Dal this year, and was rejected at MUN, waitlisted #11 at Dal (about 7 ppl get off the waitlist each year, so I'll be left until next year). That's a solid result from Dal, because it puts me in the top 30-40% of NB applicants, which is certainly encouraging. Also, Dalhousie is opening a satellite campus in Saint John, New Brunswick, meaning there will be 30 seats reserved for NB applicants instead of 20. This will open in 2010 (so, for next app cycle), and I expect there will be huge waitlist movement that year for NB (as many people will be reluctant to go there). I can see that medicine is a viability for me, and I will keep trying until I get in. My question is what I should do in the meantime.

 

So, here are my options:

 

I'm rewriting the MCAT this year. I had very limited understandings of electricity and some aspects of G-Chem, and I had no idea about o-chem (quite literally no clue at all). In the past year, I've remedied these shortcomings. I also intend to work harder on VR. Should I score higher, I'll have a reasonable shot at U of C and perhaps Manitoba (I've already done the GPA calc and looked at the U of C equation, so take my word on this one, haha). Something that will be harder to fix is my GPA, which is admittedly low.

 

I'm currently doing an undergrad in Chemical Engineering. This is my second undergrad (kin science was my first, where I graduated a year early, but at the expense of taking insane courseloads resulting in a low GPA [3.5 OMSAS overall]). I did 54 credit hours this past year (~18 courses), which was a mistake resulting in a 3.6 OMSAS GPA. Should I continue to do this undergrad, I would likely finish it in 3 years instead of the 2 I was originally intending. This will allow me to do 5 courses/sem instead of the 8 I was planning on. Also, I expect this will make me eligible for Queen's.

 

Another option that I've got is to do a master's. There is a project happening at my school in chemical engineering with biodegradable plastics, which is a distant second to medicine when it comes to my passions. There are 2 supervisor's, and it's kind of a jekyll and hyde setup (even though I get along well with them great, one is known to be extremely overdemanding, while the other is quite chill and reasonable). This master's will be 2 years, and will count as 1 year towards my Professional Engineer Status (for those of you who don't know, the P. Eng is essentially a 4 year apprenticeship that you have to do after completing an engineering degree. You have to finish this to become a real engineer. It's a lot like residency before you're an MD). The drawback of this is that I won't be able to apply to med for 1 year (at Dal, you can't quit a master's project to start an MD). Also, this won't let me 'upgrade' my undergrad GPA, since a UG GPA is looked at a bit differently by some schools, and also, one of the masters profs is a bit stingy. I may be able to muster a 3.4 OMSAS with the master's project, but I would expect a 3.8+ OMSAS doing a regular course load undergrad.

 

A final, small factor in all of this is the amount of EC involvement I'll be able to do. Although I've got a fair amount of Extracurrics already, one I'd like to get involved with is the reserves (for a few reasons, only loosely related to this post, except for the directly related fact that it will give me IP status at some schools [http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33838 should answer your questions]). Given time commitments, it would be much easier to do this if I was a UG student instead of a master's. On the other hand, I have no research experience, which would be remedied by a master's degree.

 

As you can see, it's a bit of a dilemma, with each possibility having distinct pros and cons. I'd like to hear your thoughts. For any other info, send me a PM.

[Futuremedstudent?]

How much do you like engineering? If you really don't want to do it then I wouldn't do the masters. I would instead work on the option that boosts your GPA the highest but if you think of engineering as a good back up career plan then the masters is a good option. It will definitely make you more employable.

[whale.of.a.time]

I completely agree with Futuremedstudent.

 

The main problem with doing a masters in something that is not leading to a potentially good/happy career is that the 2 years will drag on.

 

It's worth it if it's a building block, but it's definitely not the best way to kill a couple of years while re-applying. It can be really painful to have to do something you hate/resent for 2 years. And grad students often work 12-14 hours a day with no vacations or holidays (just me??? ), so it's not even really a relaxing thing to do before med.

 

I do think Dal likes people with grad degrees...but more because they have the chance to publish more papers, etc. etc. If it's a masters that you think might bite you in the bum (i.e. stingy guy and the whole Jekyl-Hyde phenomenon), then it sounds like a big risk to me. You can still publish papers by working on contracts, etc. without being in a degree program.

 

Anyway, you've obviously thought this out a lot. I'm sure one of those plans appeals to you more as a nice way to spend the next year. I'd go with whichever one that is.

 

Also, rewritting the mcat is a good idea, but also get some people to edit your essay, etc. and work on the ol' MMI skills. The interview is worth so much at Dal, and the essay follows you even after the interview. Those are things that can really compensate for other less-than-ideal parts (like my 27R MCAT!).

 

Good luck, you're so motivated...you'll definitely get there!

 

How much do you like engineering? If you really don't want to do it then I wouldn't do the masters. I would instead work on the option that boosts your GPA the highest but if you think of engineering as a good back up career plan then the masters is a good option. It will definitely make you more employable.

[zombiegirl1979]

I don't think you need to re-write the MCAT.

 

I know a lot of people who have gotten in with lower MCAT scores than you. I think at Dal the top MCAT score is 35 anyways, so you're not far off.

 

I think the option to consider most is the Masters as everyone else mentioned. If it's a course based masters, you could increase your GPA and get the extra points for having a graduate degree. Of course, as the above said, it's a tough choice if you don't want to do engineering.

 

Also, you probably have a very very good chance next year with the new NB school, even if you do nothing extra....

[Minderbinder]

Although I've got a fair amount of Extracurrics already, one I'd like to get involved with is the reserves (for a few reasons, only loosely related to this post, except for the directly related fact that it will give me IP status at some schools [http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33838 should answer your questions]).

 

I'm in the military myself, so I'm biased and think the reserves can be a great option. But here's my caveat: the Military Medical Training Program was only open to reservists because of the huge shortage of doctors in the CF. In the last three years, we managed to fill most of our vacant positions. There is a risk that the MMTP will once again be offered only to Regular Force personnel. In addition, getting selected for MMTP is gettting increasingly difficult.

 

As far as I know, as a reservist, you would only get IP status at Dal, Ottawa U and the French schools in Quebec. Calgary grants IP status only to Reg Force.

 

The reserves are big commitment, only join up if you're sure it's for you.

[w8kg6]

I'm in the military myself, so I'm biased and think the reserves can be a great option. But here's my caveat: the Military Medical Training Program was only open to reservists because of the huge shortage of doctors in the CF. In the last three years, we managed to fill most of our vacant positions. There is a risk that the MMTP will once again be offered only to Regular Force personnel. In addition, getting selected for MMTP is gettting increasingly difficult.

 

As far as I know, as a reservist, you would only get IP status at Dal, Ottawa U and the French schools in Quebec. Calgary grants IP status only to Reg Force.

 

The reserves are big commitment, only join up if you're sure it's for you.

 

Hey, thanks a lot for your info. It's sincerely appreciated. I spoke with the head of medical recruiting in eastern canada yesterday, and he basically mirrored what you said about MMTP. Although this was a back-road into Canadian med schools I thought would be viable, when I posted this, I knew that that was not the case. I was told, however, that the reserves would give me a huge jump on the competition when it comes to MOTP applications, which is my main reason for wanting to get into it (it will also give me IP status at U of C, as well as the others that you've listed, at least according to the lady I spoke with in their admissions office).

 

Yeah, I'm really leaning towards doing another year of undergrad. If I can get my 3.85 or something like that this coming year (which I should really be able to do if I take a reasonable course load), it'll bring my 2 year OMSAS GPA to about a 3.85 overall, meaning that I'll be quite competitive to Dal, as well as eligible for Queen's. Also, the 2 years away from med apps is a real drawback.

 

Thanks for your guys' take on the scene. I appreciate it.

[AdamP]

wow the waitlist only moves 7 eh...well 4 extra spots could still be doable, we'll see you in dal meds 13'.

 

I know hope isin't a plan but hey.

[asteur]

yeah, some ppl could withdraw from waitlist... say 4 withdraw from waitlist, then if it moves 7 you're in... right?

 

i'm very slightly further down the list than you are, w8kg6 (and i'm holding a tiny shred of hope still, ha ha)

[Madz25]

I don't think you need to re-write the MCAT.

 

I know a lot of people who have gotten in with lower MCAT scores than you. I think at Dal the top MCAT score is 35 anyways, so you're not far off.

 

I think the option to consider most is the Masters as everyone else mentioned. If it's a course based masters, you could increase your GPA and get the extra points for having a graduate degree. Of course, as the above said, it's a tough choice if you don't want to do engineering.

 

Also, you probably have a very very good chance next year with the new NB school, even if you do nothing extra....

 

no....top score is usually 40 or 41.

 

regardless, i dont think you need to rewrite the mcat. i agree with others, boost your gpa.

[sjcisme]

Im sort of agreeing with zombiegirl on this one, I dont really think focusing on your marks is the way to go. I have about the same GPA as you but lower MCAT. If I were you I'd spend the next year really working on your resume. Increase the volunteer work, broaden what you participate in. For me these went a long way I think. Also the MMI itself, I dont know how nerves played in for you, but I did some practice MMI's and I think that helped me a lot come MMI day.

Not that I am much closer than you to being accepted, but given your stats, I wouldn't think your marks are your major downfall

[rrt23]

I would be careful about counting on the NB school.... the positions there are going to be the positions from the Halifax site plus 10 more.... not 30 new positions. As far as I know, NB students will not be able to go to the Halifax site after this coming year..... so there is a gain of 10 seats, but not 30.

I would agree with the others, work on increasing GPA/ECs and practice, practice, practice for the MMI (I hear the interview is going to count for even more in the next few years, although this is a rumor)

 

Dal Med 2012

[A-Stark]

I think the interview was bumped up to 40% of the score this year. It's still up in the air as far as I know how the seats will be distributed in 2010. At the very least, I can say that NB applicants will have to go to the SJ campus.

[w8kg6]

Hey guys, thanks for all of your input. It weighed in on my decision for sure.

 

I've decided to stick with my undergrad. Although I realize it's not a safe bet to bank on the SJ school working out for me next year, I feel pretty confident that if I can get a top 15 waitlist position there, there is a really solid chance I'll get in (again, just because of the waitlist movement, which I expect to be substantial). To get this placement, I could actually FALL 14 positions (come in at position 45 instead of 31), so I'm confident that it should work out.

 

I'm putting a lot of work into broadening my medical background this summer. In fact, today I had my first shift as an autism specialist, and I'm working with a youth living with severe autism (complete with restraints and 24/7 care). I act as primary care provider, and have a job that entails not only teaching and caring for, but also administering meds and some of the less glamorous parts of medicine (cleaning up after wet beds and bowel movements). I realize that on a ward floor, these jobs are done more often by nurses than MDs, but I feel that this experience will be able to prove that I realize medicine isn't all unicorns and rainbows.

 

Anyways, I just wanted to revisit this thread and type up my decision and where I'm at now, just in case someone stumbles upon it down the line while in a similar situation. Maybe in the coming years I'll return and post what parts of this summer's experience got me in after all .