future_doc Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 ..men should not be offended that I cross the street away from them when I'm walking alone at night. Walking alone at night presents its own problems. I don't unless its from the bus stop home, but my neighbourhood consists of families with children and there never has been a problem. Crossing the street away from a man when walking alone at night may be of emotional benefit, but if he is a predator, he will cross the street at his own timing. I am often out all night, but it is riding in an ambulance doing volunteer EMS (where there is always safety in numbers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomes Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 I feel like I have to speak to some of the postings in this thread... Framing "feminism" as a monolithic ideology is incredibly inaccurate. It is in fact an umbrella term that encompasses a vast range of ideas and attitudes, including ideas put forward by men. "Feminism" not only concerns itself with gender ideologies, but also with class, race, ability, colonialism, and so forth. For the record, I took a minor in Women's Studies at UVIC, and not once did any of my profs teach that male-bashing was appropriate, nor was it part of the curriculum. I've never heard a feminist say that they want so-called equality for men and women, as it is being framed here, that notion is a bit antiquated. However, equal opportunities are something that I think most everyone, men and women, would argue for. I would like to play devil's advocate here by suggesting that the notion that men don't make good parents is but one side of the coin. On the other, you will find the notion that women are inherently nurturing and that their primary role in society is as a mother. I think both of these notions are inaccurate and stem from some of the societal expectations of the last century. Nomes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnface Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Sorry, I haven't been following this discussion except for the first few posts, but I ran across the following article which seems relevant to the discussion: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/alberta-minister-ignites-furor-over-raising-kids-right/article1188195/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renin Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 I think I agree with that. For example, men should not be offended that I cross the street away from them when I'm walking alone at night. I don't mean anything personally by it, it is just an unfortunate fact that as a woman I am more at risk and should take steps to protect myself. I think in many cases "better safe than sorry". My heart does go out men who feel that they are always being looked at as potential rapists and child molesters. I do that during the day... I cross the street to avoid gangs of teenage girls and men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shim Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Framing "feminism" as a monolithic ideology is incredibly inaccurate. It is in fact an umbrella term that encompasses a vast range of ideas and attitudes, including ideas put forward by men. "Feminism" not only concerns itself with gender ideologies, but also with class, race, ability, colonialism, and so forth. For the record, I took a minor in Women's Studies at UVIC, and not once did any of my profs teach that male-bashing was appropriate, nor was it part of the curriculum. I've never heard a feminist say that they want so-called equality for men and women, as it is being framed here, that notion is a bit antiquated. However, equal opportunities are something that I think most everyone, men and women, would argue for. It's nice that you have a minor in Women's Studies (seriously), but I'm quite surprised to see that you by-passed any social-claiming feminists. It's a fact that today-feminists (at least, most of them) demands to be treated at the same level than boys in social relations because they do not feel respected. I know feminism can be an "umbrella term", but I can still judge the whole thing. Just as an atheist judges religion, and a conservative judges a socialist. Even if there are different religions and different types of socialism. As I said, I agree for the equal opportunities. Therefore I'm just being logical with our human rights. p.s.: Notice that we didn't link male-bashing with feminism. We were just talking about these kind of situations and how some girls abuse of this immunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomes Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 It's nice that you have a minor in Women's Studies (seriously), but I'm quite surprised to see that you by-passed any social-claiming feminists. It's a fact that today-feminists (at least, most of them) demands to be treated at the same level than boys in social relations because they do not feel respected. I know feminism can be an "umbrella term", but I can still judge the whole thing. Just as an atheist judges religion, and a conservative judges a socialist. Even if there are different religions and different types of socialism. As I said, I agree for the equal opportunities. Therefore I'm just being logical with our human rights. p.s.: Notice that we didn't link male-bashing with feminism. We were just talking about these kind of situations and how some girls abuse of this immunity. 1 - It is ridiculous to claim that you know what most feminists "demand". What I am saying is that most feminists don't even agree with each other on what the goals of the movement should be, and therefore cannot and do not present a unified front in what their societal hopes/goals are. 2 - If you make such broad judgements then your analysis will always be superficial and have little or no bearing on reality. But I agree with you, you're entitled to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shim Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 1 - Nobody said that feminists all agree to each others. 2 - A conservative can judge socialism as a whole, just as I can judge feminism as a whole. Even if there is Marxism Socialism, Libertarian Socialism, Democratic Socialism and way more. I'm not being superficial because I disagree with the concept. That was a stupid statement. Women can already achieve whatever they want. Each year, they accept more women than men in medicine. If there are less women in a domain than another, it's simply because they're not interested in it. Feminism is dangerous in the way that some women will be able to qualify for some jobs even if they do not have the qualities, all in the name of "progression of the woman". To some extent, they're right, but only because of our human rights and that we should all have the same opportunities. That was the only thing that I have in common with feminism. I disagree with all the other social aspects. Woman is woman and man is man, you can't put them in a level of equality. There's not one who's superior and the other one who's inferior, we're just totally differents. If you want to pursue, calm your hormones beforehand and post some intelligent-content this time instead of bashing me. Thanks. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Women can already achieve whatever they want. Each year, they accept more women than men in medicine. If there are less women in a domain than another, it's simply because they're not interested in it. There is a glass ceiling for women in medicine at the moment and power positions continue in men's hands. More women are accepted into medicine these days strictly on the basis of competition on a level playing field upon entry, which does not yet exist further up the food chain. Society is changing for the better, but slowly. I do not agree that where women are outnumbered in a field, it is b/c they are not interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeraJaclyn Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 If you want to pursue, calm your hormones beforehand and post some intelligent-content this time instead of bashing me. Thanks. ;-) Are you aware of how sexist this comment is? Telling a woman to "control her hormones" is unintelligent. When women feel passionately about something, they are told they are hormonal, b*tchy, PMSing, hysterical. When men feel strongly about something they are assertive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phulmayaa Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Are you aware of how sexist this comment is? Telling a woman to "control her hormones" is unintelligent. When women feel passionately about something, they are told they are hormonal, b*tchy, PMSing, hysterical. When men feel strongly about something they are assertive. Given Shim's lack of effective arguments and unintelligent comments in most, if not all, the threads to which he has "contributed", most people just ignore him. Too bad he can't attribute it to the hormones or the PMS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renin Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Given Shim's lack of effective arguments and unintelligent comments in most, if not all, the threads to which he has "contributed", most people just ignore him. Too bad he can't attribute it to the hormones or the PMS. Maybe he's having early "man"opause! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In_Valid Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Another oddity I have noticed. Woman can wear pants, but men cannot wear dresses. Not that I want to wear a dress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeraJaclyn Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Another oddity I have noticed. Woman can wear pants, but men cannot wear dresses. Not that I want to wear a dress. Yup. See when a woman wears pants or gets a job that was traditionally held by men, it is seen as a step up. When a man wheres a dress or becomes a nurse, he is taking a step down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w8kg6 Posted June 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 There is a glass ceiling for women in medicine at the moment and power positions continue in men's hands. More women are accepted into medicine these days strictly on the basis of competition on a level playing field upon entry, which does not yet exist further up the food chain. Society is changing for the better, but slowly. I do not agree that where women are outnumbered in a field, it is b/c they are not interested. This isn't true. In the military, which is likely the most phallocentric setting in Canadian society, most of the top level physicians are women. This is in spite of the fact that only 25% of the forces' physicians are female. I expect this is true in most healthcare fields, given that there are more females in the profession (downriver effect of admitting more females). Also, women are portrayed as being in positions of power frequently in the media's depiction of healthcare. Although in some fields the glass cieling is still there, I would make the contention that health care is amongst the most equal fields going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Law Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Groping is both assault and a sexual criminal offence:( - unless the groping is accepted as a welcome action by the gropee (in which case, it is neither an assault nor a sexual criminal offence) but is (inappropriate) foreplay. We return full cricle that perception is reality, in this case, it is only the preception of the gropee that matters. Do you grope the concept?. Concept groped successfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Yup. See when a woman wears pants or gets a job that was traditionally held by men, it is seen as a step up. When a man wheres a dress or becomes a nurse, he is taking a step down. hmmmm, what about kilts? Is a monk's robes really that different than a dress? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomes Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Maybe he's having early "man"opause! LOL! 10char Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Although in some fields the glass cieling is still there, I would make the contention that health care is amongst the most equal fields going. see http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/273/13/10122 re: glass ceiling of women in medical school faculty I think the military example you gave is the exception to the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeraJaclyn Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 hmmmm, what about kilts? Is a monk's robes really that different than a dress? No, they're not really any different. The only difference is that if you are in Scottland, a man and woman can wear a kilt, but only a woman can wear a dress. This is not something I agree is right, i think people should wear whatever they want. I'm just pointing out that in our society women can (and are sometimes expected) to act like men to get ahead, while men who act like women are seen as abnormal and weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renin Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Yup. See when a woman wears pants or gets a job that was traditionally held by men, it is seen as a step up. When a man wheres a dress or becomes a nurse, he is taking a step down. Any woman wants to date a doctor, and everyone says what a great catch is his. As in: 1) Wow, you're dating a doctor?! WOW! If a man dates a female doctor... People say: 1) Is she going to have children? 2) She'll be a bad mother. 3) She'll make you look stupid. 4) What are you gonna do, stay home? 5) She's smarter than you. 6) She'll never be at home. 7) Why would you want to do that? *sob* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Any woman wants to date a doctor, and everyone says what a great catch is his. As in:1) Wow, you're dating a doctor?! WOW! If a man dates a female doctor... People say: 1) Is she going to have children? 2) She'll be a bad mother. 3) She'll make you look stupid. 4) What are you gonna do, stay home? 5) She's smarter than you. 6) She'll never be at home. 7) Why would you want to do that? *sob* Got the same problem with a women in any high skilled profession. Have women in my family who are highish end lawyers with the same problem. Some guys are idiots and can't deal with smart women. Others can. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 Any woman wants to date a doctor, and everyone says what a great catch is his. As in:1) Wow, you're dating a doctor?! WOW! If a man dates a female doctor... People say: 1) Is she going to have children? 2) She'll be a bad mother. 3) She'll make you look stupid. 4) What are you gonna do, stay home? 5) She's smarter than you. 6) She'll never be at home. 7) Why would you want to do that? *sob* Yeah, it's crazy. You'd think we would've progressed a little more than this by now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 Got the same problem with a women in any high skilled profession. Have women in my family who are highish end lawyers with the same problem. Some guys are idiots and can't deal with smart women. Others can. Simple as that. Sad, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renin Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 Yeah, it's crazy. You'd think we would've progressed a little more than this by now.... I had hoped so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.