york_biomed Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 It's not fair that lot of students with very high gpas don't get in. So shouldn't there be private med schools for these students, so if they can afford the tuition fees, they can fulfill their dreams in that way, esp since there is doctor shortage already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st8ic Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 So you don't care if your doctor was smart enough to get into med school, as long as his daddy had a trust fund that was big enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medical_schools_in_the_United_States Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madz25 Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medical_schools_in_the_United_States lol. awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnussey Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 Of course there is a problem with intelligent students not getting in (and many are deserving)...but sometimes the problem lies with the student (and not the competition or available students)...social skills & EQ are judged considerably during the interviews and most interviews are the determining factor of acceptance. While you are right, perhaps there should be more medical schools (love that list Jochi...look at all the new schools opening!), that doesn't mean these students are any more deserving of those seats than they were of the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a41 Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 So you don't care if your doctor was smart enough to get into med school, as long as his daddy had a trust fund that was big enough? Right because all of those private medical schools in the US like Harvard and Hopkins have really stupid students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Law Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 http://premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30050&highlight=private Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnussey Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 http://premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30050&highlight=private Cool. I think quality (and unrest among the profession) would be my biggest concerns with the private system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Law Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 I'm completely certain if they were to happen they could become very high-quality schools! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnussey Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 I'm completely certain if they were to happen they could become very high-quality schools! Lol...wrong end of the pendulum--I'm worried about maintaining a somewhat equal-footing across all schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a41 Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 Lol...wrong end of the pendulum--I'm worried about maintaining a somewhat equal-footing across all schools. That's what accreditation is for. In the US, the worst schools aren't worse than the worst Canadian schools. It's just that the best are so much better. There's no point in holding back potential for the sake of equality. (I'm saying that as a leftist too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 That's empty rhetoric. How is potential being "held back" and where? Anyhow, this issue was covered well enough last year - and it's not going to happen, and not just because it shouldn't. (And, yes, the worst schools in the US are not LCME accredited - certainly worse than any Canadian school, all of which do carry that accreditation.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnussey Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 I don't think anyone should be "held back"...I think that if you are going to up the game in one, then you should up the game in them all (if it's a significant advantage--better equipment and shorter degrees are not reason to complain, but competency is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnussey Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 That's what accreditation is for. In the US, the worst schools aren't worse than the worst Canadian schools. It's just that the best are so much better. There's no point in holding back potential for the sake of equality. (I'm saying that as a leftist too). Left liberalism or left conservatism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Law Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 Lol...wrong end of the pendulum--I'm worried about maintaining a somewhat equal-footing across all schools. There are a tonne of examples in the US of strong public and private institutions. The fact of the matter is, as things stand, we do not have enough physicians and while the government is increasing enrollment - it is not at a pace enough to deal with our shortage. We need more medical schools or more spaces... but it doesn't end there, because for each of these new physicians, we need to ensure there are residency spots available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnussey Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 There are a tonne of examples in the US of strong public and private institutions. The fact of the matter is, as things stand, we do not have enough physicians and while the government is increasing enrollment - it is not at a pace enough to deal with our shortage. We need more medical schools or more spaces... but it doesn't end there, because for each of these new physicians, we need to ensure there are residency spots available. That's good...and I'm not opposed to that--but when you begin instituting private practice and private schools regulations (government or amongst the schools themselves--I don't really care which) needs to be seriously thought over to ensure all the original schools are still delivering *relatively* equal educations. Among universities right now, you cannot transfer degrees (often) because the methods are different and the courses are different...but students still end up with the same degree and (supposedly) level of education. I guess I'm just being idealistic. The problem with residency spots is another thing--there are many small hospitals that should probably consider the idea of taking on residents (it would increase their responsibilities, but it would ease some of the work on the limited staff they have...maybe). For some reason, I don't think the shortage of health care professionals (globally or nationally) will be fixed in our life-time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a41 Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 That's empty rhetoric. How is potential being "held back" and where? Anyhow, this issue was covered well enough last year - and it's not going to happen, and not just because it shouldn't. (And, yes, the worst schools in the US are not LCME accredited - certainly worse than any Canadian school, all of which do carry that accreditation.) It's well known that the top private schools are able to attract top students, for many reasons, the most of which I think is money. The endowment at Harvard puts any Canadian university to shame. That money is used to attract and hire the best faculty, build great facilities, and offer scholarships for top students. All that private money is a big advantage that Harvard has over some other school. While it might still be a good school without it, do you really think they aren't better off with that money? With regards to my US school statement. My first line mentioned accreditation - I was saying that it is used as a way of maintaing a minimum standard. So actually yes, the worst LCME accredited US schools are still LCME accredited, just like the worst LCME accredited Canadian schools. Anyways like you said, it doesn't matter. It will never happen in Canada, just like healthcare reform will never happen in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microbiodude Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 The problem with residency spots is another thing--there are many small hospitals that should probably consider the idea of taking on residents (it would increase their responsibilities, but it would ease some of the work on the limited staff they have...maybe). For some reason, I don't think the shortage of health care professionals (globally or nationally) will be fixed in our life-time. Actually, I think taking on residents increases the workload on staff. They now have an extra duty to fulfill, that of a teacher. At the end the residents are trainees, as such the hospital will have to carry extra liability insurance which means they'll require more funding to run the show. I guess that's what I see as the big problem with opening private medical schools. By pumping out more MDs you just increase competition for residency positions, assuming residency spots aren't opening at the same pace....on the other hand, you'll probably end up with more rural and FMs if that's where the "overflow" take up the unfilled spaces we have today. But, you may also just have more miserable doctors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnussey Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 Actually, I think taking on residents increases the workload on staff. They now have an extra duty to fulfill, that of a teacher. At the end the residents are trainees, as such the hospital will have to carry extra liability insurance which means they'll require more funding to run the show. I guess that's what I see as the big problem with opening private medical schools. By pumping out more MDs you just increase competition for residency positions, assuming residency spots aren't opening at the same pace....on the other hand, you'll probably end up with more rural and FMs if that's where the "overflow" take up the unfilled spaces we have today. But, you may also just have more miserable doctors. Always good and bad with every hypothetical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 One of the big problems is you cannot just open up more slots in the Canadian medical system by providing the undergraduate training - the bigger problem that is a bit hidden is that those students need residency positions at the end. Since there are no private hospitals in Canada either, there is a second layer of increases required and from what i have heard that is actually where the bottleneck ultimately lies. It is relatively cheaper to add a med student spot than the followup training down the line. Private schools won't help anything either for 15ish years or so, even if they were approved today - I think it is quicker and easier to use the system we already have. It takes it seems 5-7 years to plan, build, staff etc a school (at least based on the other schools I have seen), then you take students for four years, then they are off in resisdency (if somehow those slots can be openned up as well). To be fair we of course do have room put into the system for people trained outside of Canada - its not a 1:1 ratio of med school spots and residency positions - but the fraction of non locally trained doctors is pretty small comparatively, and can't be immediately bumped up by a large amount. That being said there is certainly good reason for all the frustration out there - people work hard, do well, and don't get in. Excellent people (with far more than high GPA) can't find positions and it sucks! On the bright side I am quite pleased with the recent push to add more spots in the schools - it's actually a big jump with more to come - all caused by the collective outcry for the government to do something. Finally seems like we are making serious progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microbiodude Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 I think UTM is opening in 2011 with 54 new spots, Mac increases next year by 9 spots, Queen's should be explanding for 2012 by adding 5 or so spots per year to a max of 25 new spots. It's pretty aggressive expansion and hopefully works out for everyone's benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnussey Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 I think UTM is opening in 2011 with 54 new spots, Mac increases next year by 9 spots, Queen's should be explanding for 2012 by adding 5 or so spots per year to a max of 25 new spots. It's pretty aggressive expansion and hopefully works out for everyone's benefit. MUN keeps adding another 5 or so each year as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 MUN keeps adding another 5 or so each year as well. Similar with Western, Toronto etc. As far as I know every schools is trying to do something now. For the first time in 7ish years it seems to be getting a bit easier to get in - slots are increasing, double cohort is now well behind us, public/government is receptive to the need. Feels like things are coming around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnussey Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 Similar with Western, Toronto etc. As far as I know every schools is trying to do something now. For the first time in 7ish years it seems to be getting a bit easier to get in - slots are increasing, double cohort is now well behind us, public/government is receptive to the need. Feels like things are coming around Maybe I'll make it in before I'm 30 then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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