I need to switch. I just need to.

[ubcredfox]

"obamasutra" is the kind of person I see in the future getting into trouble with the college of physicians because he lacks communication skills, is self centred, feels he is beyond criticism other than from himself & is arrogant.The world would be a better place if he never becomes a practicing Doc-- ]May be OK for pathology or research but should not treat real people.

 

A real intellectual! You spit vociferous invective about a specialty of which you are clearly completely ignorant, highlighting your own arrogance in the process. Enough of your sanctimoniousness. Pathology isn't the scapegoat of medicine. There is no greater a preponderance of the maladjusted and socially inept in pathology as compared to any other specialty. I only hope that I never have to work with someone who is as quick to unsubstantiated fallacious judgment as you.

 

To the OP: Stand indefatigable in the face of Carms. You deserve to do what you want. If you can switch do. Find something that you like to do. People switch frequently, and often. The other fellow who posted the road map for switching was giving out some really good advice. Good luck!

[Melisende]

CaRMS is a black box operation that is unpredictable and can be downright cruel at times. The pressure to match to something, even if it is something that we hate, is so high that often med students would rank even things that they hate just so they can say they matched. For those of you who have not yet gone through this process, do not judge the OP and say that you understand why he failed to match 1st round. The match results are often surprising, and sometimes very competitive students do not get what they want. When that happens, the result is devastating enough. The last thing s/he needs is to be insulted by others. If you have something contructive and helpful to say, then please share your thoughts. If not, please refrain from insulting the OP.

 

Obamasutra, good luck in your pursuit of a transfer. I have known people who transferred from 2 yr residencies to competitive specialties, so it is possible. Don't give up your hope!

[loving_medicine]

Hey Obamasutra,

 

The road map seems complicated, but it really does sound worse than it really is (except for the endless waiting that you have to undergo...kind of like CaRMS all over again). But in the end, it's worth it if it works out. And if not, there are other options and at least you have done everything you could to get to do something you truly wanted to do.

 

Good luck!

 

LM

[FamilyGuy]

A real intellectual! You spit vociferous invective about a specialty of which you are clearly completely ignorant, highlighting your own arrogance in the process. Enough of your sanctimoniousness. Pathology isn't the scapegoat of medicine. There is no greater a preponderance of the maladjusted and socially inept in pathology as compared to any other specialty. I only hope that I never have to work with someone who is as quick to unsubstantiated fallacious judgment as you.

 

To the OP: Stand indefatigable in the face of Carms. You deserve to do what you want. If you can switch do. Find something that you like to do. People switch frequently, and often. The other fellow who posted the road map for switching was giving out some really good advice. Good luck!

 

Just wanted to say that I'm a fan of your command of the English language. You remind me of Data from TNG.

[lalabel]

"obamasutra" is the kind of person I see in the future getting into trouble with the college of physicians because he lacks communication skills, is self centred, feels he is beyond criticism other than from himself & is arrogant.The world would be a better place if he never becomes a practicing Doc-- May be OK for pathology or research but should not treat real people.

 

You of all people, including recycledepot and internist, should not treat real people. Wow, all the hatred and lack of empathy. I would be scared to be treated by people like you even as a surg resident.

[lalabel]

Hey, good luck with the switching process. I don't have anything really constructive to add to the advice you have already received but still, don't pay attention to horrible comments such as those from recycledbrains' and so on.

[obamasutra]

Hey, good luck with the switching process. I don't have anything really constructive to add to the advice you have already received but still, don't pay attention to horrible comments such as those from recycledbrains' and so on.

 

I'm going to do a bit of thinking about how to tackle step 1: talking to the program director in the destination program.

 

I'm afraid that if I give them my entire story, the PD will judge me like "Internist" and "Recycledepot" have. "Internist" is reportedly on the selection committee for UofT internal, and obviously views me as being deserving of harsh criticism for going unmatched, so its not a big stretch to think that the PD of the destination program might have the same opinion. Do I even have to tell them I second-round matched? Is that relevant at all? Do I only mention it if I'm asked? Or would it be better to just come-clean about the whole thing?

 

It's kind of a downer to say that the only reason I went into my current program is because it was the only thing in the second iteration that I didn't hate with a burning passion but instead only barely tolerated. I know that I could not tolerate it for the rest of my life now that I'm in residency and have done it for an extended period of time.

 

I don't have a lot of free-time in residency. I don't know how I will express interest in the destination field other than me saying that I'm interested. Doing a research project doesn't seem realistic given the time constraints(plus, I have to do a bunch of stuff like that while in my current program).

 

And if my PD isn't receptive, how do I go about speaking to other PDs across the country? What am I supposed to say to them? I'm willing to move.

[lalabel]

I'm afraid that if I give them my entire story, the PD will judge me like "Internist" and "Recycledepot" have. "Internist" is reportedly on the selection committee for UofT internal, and obviously views me as being deserving of harsh criticism for going unmatched, so its not a big stretch to think that the PD of the destination program might have the same opinion.

 

I know, I noticed too. But he is not all PDs across Canada, though, and another reason not to go to UofT.

 

What about applying to French programs? People there would probably be more empathetic to your problem...

[Mandibular]

why would you think that french PDs would be more empathetic?

[lalabel]

why would you think that french PDs would be more empathetic?

 

I said "would" and "probably". But it obviously depends on the program.

I think this based on my personal experience as well as my background: we usually have extensive discussions with faculty about this kind of experiences before the match because a lot of people usually end up unhappy, whether immediately post-CaRMS or a few years into their residency training.

[obamasutra]

I don't know how to speak French, so I can't apply to French schools unfortunately. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

Is it hard to transfer if nobody wants to transfer to your program? Does this make going between universities and provinces more difficult? I am pretty sure that nobody will want to transfer to mine because of location and relative low-standing of my program compared to others. Is there any way I can compensate for this?

[Jochi1543]

a lot of people usually end up unhappy, whether immediately post-CaRMS or a few years into their residency training.

 

I wonder how much of it has to do with the matching process vs the personality types prevalent in medicine. I find that a lot of overachievers are never happy with what they have, hence the constant drive to succeed and improve. I sometimes wonder if 10 years from now I'll be like, "meh, medicine is boring and I'm sick of being a doc" and go into something else. Hopefully not.

[Jochi1543]

"Internist" is reportedly on the selection committee for UofT internal

 

I don't believe a word of that, but that's just me. From my experience on a selection committee (not CaRMS), I seriously doubt the rest of the committee would be cool with one of their members going online, openly saying they are on the committee, and offering people advice (whether legit or incorrect). I suspect the aforementioned committee member would be ousted promptly, because this is completely unethical for a number of reasons. Committee members, no matter what committee, act as representatives of their home institution, and when a member goes online and trashes others....well, it says a few things about the culture of the institution.

[thebouque]

"Internist" is reportedly on the selection committee for UofT internal

 

Reportedly truly is the keyword in this sentence

[hawkeye1]

As a response to a previous post - I think it is important to realise that there is no way to know how you will react to the match results regardless of how much "mental preparation" you have done (unless you get your first choice) ...

 

All that being said as a way of supporting Obamasutra's move ...

 

I think you need to say as little as possible about your path to the current situation. I wouldn't talk about the second round unless directly asked. I would focus on the positive as others have suggested. Try to keep the conversation directed towards your future in the PD's specialty. In general, I think sticking to a "need to know basis" is a smart strategy. I think it is reasonable to direct the conversation so that the PD has a clear understanding of your strengths and your desire for a new career path. Obviously, truthfully answer direct questions, but don't offer information that might be misconstrued (if possible).

 

That's just my humble opinion ... I think we all deserve to happy in our profession and hope you are successful in your switch.

[pathman]

A real intellectual! You spit vociferous invective about a specialty of which you are clearly completely ignorant, highlighting your own arrogance in the process. Enough of your sanctimoniousness. Pathology isn't the scapegoat of medicine. There is no greater a preponderance of the maladjusted and socially inept in pathology as compared to any other specialty. I only hope that I never have to work with someone who is as quick to unsubstantiated fallacious judgment as you.

 

To the OP: Stand indefatigable in the face of Carms. You deserve to do what you want. If you can switch do. Find something that you like to do. People switch frequently, and often. The other fellow who posted the road map for switching was giving out some really good advice. Good luck!

 

As a person who wanted path all along, ended up matching their first choice, AND got along famously with patients, this post is hella awesome. And to the OP, it seems you've received a lot of good advice here. It might take some time, but it's just a matter of taking the steps to try and get what you want. I hope it works out.

[obamasutra]

Should I try to ask the programs I applied to last year in the first round about why I wasn't really considered by them, or will they even remember or have the information at all? I thought that would be a good starting point in finding my deficiencies.

[Lactic Folly]

Hadn't thought of that myself, but I don't suppose it would hurt. The worst they could say is no.

[soMuchPain]

Hi Obamasutra

I have bumped into this forum and feel the urge to offer my two cents to you.

 

I understand perfectly how you feel because I am in the same situation you are (probably worse). When I first read the topic, I knew it came straight from your heart.

 

It's a natural reaction to feel down, rejected, less wanted, like a loser after being shafted by your first choice specialty. Med keeners like you and me are used to success and getting what we want, when we don't, we feel worse than others.

 

I see that many sympathetic people have offered some help and a few were plain rude. These people didn't go through scrambling for a residency position just to secure A JOB OF NECESSITY, working hard everyday in something you don't see yourself in, and the worst of all, doubting your own competency. But don't let these people bother you, use that anger and energy to get what you really want.

 

Don't give up your dreams so fast, go for what you really want. You may not end up in the exact same specialty or program you wanted but you can land some close. I know quite a few people who have done it after 1 yr and even 2 yrs of trying. If you try your best, explore as many means as possible, you will succeed, have faith in yourself. God has set up an extraordinary path for you to achieve an extraordinary goal.

 

I can't write about my own experience in public but if you want you can send me a private message and i can give you my email address.

 

Good luck!

[allycat0303]

I think the solution is simple: switch.

 

I know a lot of people that have switched, and it doesn't seem that difficult, it seems a matter of deciding that you want out and then going to talk to PD in your target program. This might entail discomfort/being turned down, but the end result is worth it.

 

I have met:

family medicine---> switched to Ortho

family medicine---> obs gyn

family medicine---> patho

ortho (R3!!!)----> family medicine (totally bizzare)

internal medicine--->general surgery

internal medicine---> ENT

internal medicine----> family medicine

 

Their resons for doing so are varied, and some of them, when they told me, it just blew my mind. I think it's more a matter of convincing the PD that they want you. After they've said yes, I think that getting your program to release you is reletively easy. Bottom line, I don't think anyone wants people in their program that doesn't want to be there.

 

If the program you are in does not work for you, you owe it to yourself to GET out. I've noticed that programs within the same school are easier to switch to, then a different school. Obviously, if what you really wanted is not insanely competitive, that helps a lot to.

 

It would be a terrible shame to spend your life doing something you hate.

[Mourning Cloak]

Gotta LOVE the internet.

 

Absolutely every datum on any subject you could desire to devour is available somewhere.

 

This shows the number of CaRMS trainees switching over the last five years.

 

http://www.caper.ca/docs/pdf_2008-09_CAPER_Census.pdf page 143

 

For example, in 2007-2008, 51 residents went from a specialty training program to a family med program; 31 went the other way.

 

(Doesn't get highly specific, however, as to the nature of the specialty program).

[obamasutra]

I think the solution is simple: switch.

 

I know a lot of people that have switched, and it doesn't seem that difficult, it seems a matter of deciding that you want out and then going to talk to PD in your target program. This might entail discomfort/being turned down, but the end result is worth it.

 

I have met:

family medicine---> switched to Ortho

family medicine---> obs gyn

family medicine---> patho

ortho (R3!!!)----> family medicine (totally bizzare)

internal medicine--->general surgery

internal medicine---> ENT

internal medicine----> family medicine

 

Their resons for doing so are varied, and some of them, when they told me, it just blew my mind.

 

What kind of reasons did these residents have for switching? I need inspiration.

 

If I am turned down, then what are my options - does anyone have any ideas? I can't keep going the way I am now.

 

As time goes on it seems more and more hopeless. I feel like a dog, eating the scraps from the edge of the table - a journeyman resident, who exists to do the work better men refuse to do. Competent but unable to excel.

[Lactic Folly]

Whatever the reason for switching, it comes down to being unhappy where you are and believing you would be better suited somewhere else.

 

Who have you talked to during the two months since your original post? What is the status of your conversations? You have a better shot at expanding your options if you go in expecting to work out a way, somehow, than if you are already anticipating failure.

[pathman]

What kind of reasons did these residents have for switching? I need inspiration.

 

If I am turned down, then what are my options - does anyone have any ideas? I can't keep going the way I am now.

 

As time goes on it seems more and more hopeless. I feel like a dog, eating the scraps from the edge of the table - a journeyman resident, who exists to do the work better men refuse to do. Competent but unable to excel.

 

It has been a fairly long time since your original post. Numerous excellent suggestions have been made. It sounds to me like you have not yet taken any steps to change your situation...perhaps I am dead wrong, but if not, start doing something and stop complaining! Sorry if that sounds harsh - again, if I'm wrong and you've begun making an attempt to better your situation, then I apologize.

[HBP]

Read the first pages.... damn some of you medical graduates are ****ing pricks. Either you hid that during your medical school interviews, or it came out during medical school.