western verbal cutoff

[newmeddude]

Do you think verbal 11 is the new verbal, or might it go back to 10 next year?

 

I know it changes year to year, but if they increased verbal because of the studies that correlate verbal with success as a doctor, and they are able to meet their quota with it (plus they've demonstrated they don't mind lowering everything else to accommodate it), what is there telling us that they are going to switch back?... if they are working with the notion that verbal-->good docs that is...

thoughts?

[nemesis]

I wouldn't read too much into the rationale behind the implementation of a VR=11 cutoff for this cycle.

 

At the same time, I wouldn't feel comfortable applying with VR<11 in the future, knowing that it was higher for 2010 entry.

[newmeddude]

is that to say that you would rewrite a BS12 VR10 PS11 WS-T mcat though?

[UTPEOPLE]

is that to say that you would rewrite a BS12 VR10 PS11 WS-T mcat though?

 

I probably would... its not fun worrying that I might not make the cutoff... Great writing sample though! I'm jealous!

[track_star_x]

is that to say that you would rewrite a BS12 VR10 PS11 WS-T mcat though?

 

That is a tough choice! Your score is AMAZING and you should be proud of it and it will probably be competitive at most schools. However, there obviously is that chance that verbal will stay at 11 for western and maybe for queens. Also, VR is all that matters for mac so a higher score could definitely help. I think it all comes down to how confident you are about rewriting. If you feel that you can improve your VR and maintain or improve the other sections, go for it! However, if you felt 'lucky' to get those scores (as I did for my MCAT) and think there is a good chance your overall score will go down, I would not rewrite...perhaps my advice seems obvious, but I thought I might share it anyways. Best of luck to you!

[rmorelan]

Do you think verbal 11 is the new verbal, or might it go back to 10 next year?

 

I know it changes year to year, but if they increased verbal because of the studies that correlate verbal with success as a doctor

 

Side issue but you are assuming they put VR at 11 because they think it makes "better doctors". At Western there are three objectives of the cut offs. The first is the ensure interviewees can handle the rigours of medical school education. The second is to simply elminate large numbers of applicants from consideration to get it down to a managable number for interviews. The third is to provide an advantage to people they believe will practice is the region Western is responsible for, ie SWOMEN.

 

This year we lowered the GPA, PS, BS, and WS cut off (does that sound like something that would make interviewees better doctors?)

[nemesis]

Side issue but you are assuming they put VR at 11 because they think it makes "better doctors". At Western there are three objectives of the cut offs. The first is the ensure interviewees can handle the rigours of medical school education. The second is to simply elminate large numbers of applicants from consideration to get it down to a managable number for interviews. The third is to provide an advantage to people they believe will practice is the region Western is responsible for, ie SWOMEN.

 

This year we lowered the GPA, PS, BS, and WS cut off (does that sound like something that would make interviewees better doctors?)

 

The PS section remained the same for 2010 entry, compared to last cycle (i.e. PS=09).

 

However, as you mentioned, the GPA and MCAT cutoffs at Western, are set based on the quality of the applicant pool and chosen so that approximately 400-450 candidates will advance to the interview stage.

 

Furthermore, it is important to distinguish between Western's use of the MCAT compared to McMaster. At McMaster, the VR section of the MCAT was implemented because the admissions committee was convinced by data which demonstrated that this section of the exam was a strong predictor of the future success of matriculants (specifically, on the MCCQE Part II).

 

So while McMaster had specifically instituted the MCAT VR in the selection process because they believe it will select for stronger candidates, Western simply uses the entire MCAT as a method to trim down the applicant pool to a manageable size. This is the important distinction.

[rmorelan]

The PS section remained the same for 2010 entry, compared to last cycle (i.e. PS=09).

 

However, as you mentioned, the GPA and MCAT cutoffs at Western, are set based on the quality of the applicant pool and chosen so that approximately 400-450 candidates will advance to the interview stage.

 

yeah, you are of course right! Guess my point was overall everything BUT VR stayed the same or dropped, and I am pretty sure we don't think VR is that good an indicator of future performance The fact that no one saw the VR increase coming was exactly why it was so effective at reducing applicants.

[nemesis]

yeah, you are of course right! Guess my point was overall everything BUT VR stayed the same or dropped, and I am pretty sure we don't think VR is that good an indicator of future performance The fact that no one saw the VR increase coming was exactly why it was so effective at reducing applicants.

 

You were quick on the reply...see my edit (that was the important information).

[rmorelan]

You were quick on the reply...see my edit (that was the important information).

 

heheh, I have my tracking system working that notifies me when a post is made in the western forum. Can give me "supernatural" response speeds sometimes!

 

You have to love technology

[HBP]

It would be interesting to see UWO have so much waitlist movement this year that they regret the day they chose the 11 VR.

[rmorelan]

It would be interesting to see UWO have so much waitlist movement this year that they regret the day they chose the 11 VR.

 

little reason to suspect that will happen I guess - the point of the cut offs was to get the same number of applicants we always do and at thost levels we have never been at risk before. The VR change was not a vandictive act - I think it was just mostly a response to people targeting the old cut off values, hitting them and therefore making them useless. Annoying, repeated mcat offerings has created an effective mcat inflation to go along with everything else. There is a kind of academic warfare going on here.

[rmorelan]

With that said, there is nothing telling us that they will switch it back. There is also nothing telling us that they will keep these cutoffs for next year. I suggest you not look into it as much as you are right now.

 

Premeds stop overthinking things? We all were/are guilty of that

 

Alastriss has a point, there are no safe values for sure. Do your best in all sections, and hope for the best after that. Not a very satisifying answer I know, but I am afraid we cannot offer much more.

[sfinch]

little reason to suspect that will happen I guess - the point of the cut offs was to get the same number of applicants we always do and at thost levels we have never been at risk before. The VR change was not a vandictive act - I think it was just mostly a response to people targeting the old cut off values, hitting them and therefore making them useless. Annoying, repeated mcat offerings has created an effective mcat inflation to go along with everything else. There is a kind of academic warfare going on here.

 

I agree.

 

The MCAT inflation from repeat MCAT offerings is one of the things that has made admissions so difficult - plus the fact that individual mcat settings have more variability in their scoring because of significantly less questions per section than the written MCAT. So while the year round distribution of scores is only a bit higher than 10 yrs ago - more applicants have at least one awesome score eventually. In fact, including sessions that were cancelled after the test, I know people that have written the MCAT 6+ times until they eventually got the 'cutoffs'.

 

This coupled with GPA inflation (especially in some programs), the new OMSAS scoring system that increases most GPAs compared to the old days (and incentivizes people to argue their 79s to 80s which gives an old OMSAS value equivalent to an 83), and increased ability to travel/do ECs compared to previous generations has created tons of paper super applicants.

 

UBC uses percentages instead of GPA to overcome the problems with GPAs today. So does the local dental school here in london, and saskatchewans medical school