RN to MD it's a long road... Feedback?!?!

[NursingStudent]

Jmm29

 

Kudos to you for making such a decision and great to see your passion towards health care. Don't worry about these haters that are posting negative or non supporting comments. Trust me, these people would love to be in your shoes i.e. making decent money as a RN and trying to get into medicine...so don't worry about them.

 

I am in a similar boat as you:

A little about me.

 

I am 31 years old(male...apparently gender is an imp issue here..*sarcasm*). I have a computer technology diploma from SAIT..worked in IT as a Database Administrator for 5 years.

 

I don't work in IT anymore. I work as a Nursing Attendant at Emergency and ICU on casual hours at Foothills Hospital while doing my third year in Bachelor of Nursing at Mount Royal University in Calgary. Below is the breakdown of my gpa etc.

 

Year 1 - 2.51 (30 credits)

year 2 - 2.83 (28 credits)

Year 3 - currently sitting at 3.70 aiming for 3.75 for the year (31 credits)

 

I've posted similar posts on this forum inquiring about the number of credits and the P/F clinicals etc that we have to take as part of our program. I actually talked to someone today who was a RN before and now in his 3rd year residency in Urology. He said I'll have to do another undergrad. It's nice to do a MN/NP route but med schools don't really look into your grad marks as much as they look into your undergraduate marks. So that's the advice I got from him.

 

Hence, once I am done my 4th year which will be Sep 2011 (I am going straight through spring/summer) I will start working as a Graduate Nurse and start preparing for my RN exam for Feb 2012. During this time, I will enroll in Athabasca University's Bachelor of Arts in Psychology degree on a full time basis. I will start in Sep 2011 for this degree. This is a distance ed program so while I work I could complete my 5 courses/semester requirement and target a decent gpa. You could finish this in 2.5 years.

 

The only thing I need to find out is if Alberta and Ontario Universities would recognize my second undergraduate via distance learning through Athabasca University.

 

Why is all this important to you?

 

Well by the time I am eligible to apply for med school I am looking at the summer of 2013 which means I'll be 34 years old. My motto is, I'll be 34 regardless so why not be 34 with a letter of acceptance to med school!

 

And you thought you were too old?

 

Good Luck and stay positive. Hope this encourages you even more!

 

Cheers

 

PS btw I am married and planning to have my first child after I finish Nursing degree )

[itimebomb2]

If you're serious about this, the best advice I can give you is to go to the most UNCOMPETITIVE unversity you can access full-time --- I'm thinking like Lakehead or York, or something like that. Find a university where the entrance average was just above a pass in high school and just absolutely demolish a phony degree in communications or something (assuming your nursing degree took care of prereqs for you and the unis will accept them).

 

Your biggest problem is your debt -- there's no possible way you, at your age, will be able to compete with kids fresh out of high school in a competitive science program at a legitimate university -- while making enough even to just make the minimum payments on a debt that huge. You gotta remember that no matter how enthusiastic you are, you have no gaurantee of making it in - you don't want to be looking at 100k in debt 3 years from now with just an RN to pay it back.

 

There you have it. Good luck.

[PharMedStudy]

hi,

I am excited to join this forum today, and I have browsed through a few discussion threads and found out that I relate more to this one.

 

I am in the process of making probably one of the most important decisions in my life, and can't afford for it to not be thoroughly thought through and informed. Hence I would immensely appreciate any advice and hints, information and recommendation and...

 

So here is a summary about myself.

I am female, 33yrs old, have two kids, an undergraduate degree from Europe with a gpa that is really not worth mentioning... (well let's mention it anyway, in case it has a role to play) and now I"ve just moved to canada and want to pursue a career in medicine!

Well, eventually I can consider pharmacy too as I am passionate about both.

 

If this doesn't sound crazy thus far, then go on reading.

Anyway, I just related a little bit to "Nursingstudent" 's posting because he also seems to be in his 30s and still wanting to do a second degree before entering medicine.

 

My situation and questions:

Since my first gpa was so low, it is obvious that a second degree is in order. I was thinking of Second degree entry programs like in nursing, mainly because they are shorter in length.

 

My worries and questions here are:

1. will the 2 or 2.5 year programs be considered equal to the 4year undergrad programs?

2. I have understood from other threads that mcmaster considers ALL undergrad gpa. Would it then be wiser to just totally ignore my previous undergrad and start in canada from scratch with a new undergrad (.. u know as a mature student? ) so that the low gpa of my first undergrad plays no role in the admission?

That way, only my undergrad from here will be considered.

3. Is it a fact that I can only start taking courses in a years time (from next september since admissions are over? I hate to just hang around for a whole year.

4. Are there any distance education programs that you know about which are recognised?

4b.) Or are there any community colleges which work in colaboration with universities, where I can go take some courses? I really have one whole year from now until next september and I hope there are some steps I can already start taking to pursue this dream career.

 

Basically, I am based in Toronto, not working hence flexible to start. Someone mentioned that some universities are UNCOMPETETIVE. Anyone agreees with that? Would u also recommend that I go to York university? That sounds like a place for me. At this point, I am not bothered with uncompetetiveness.

Also, I am really ready to do whatever it takes, wherever it takes. That means that I am not limited to Toronto or Ontario.

I am ready to move to any province and start off there. e. Quebec ir Alberta or Saskatchewan. So if anybody has any information on those provinces, I'll be happy to hear it.

 

5a.) Dear Nursing student, (or anybody else) do you think that your nursing degree has been a good choice for entry to medicine?

5b.) Is there a a particular reason you got the low gpa? I read from another thread from a nursing student who said that she had a v. high gpa from subjects where she had textbooks to read for exams. However she didn't score high marks like in clinical rotations because she more or less didn't connect well with her supervisor. Is this something you can relate to)

Does any other person have a recommendation for a nursing program that would be a good foundation to get into med school?

 

6. Is it Naive to think that I would have the time to do the premed science courses during the nursing undergrad? My previous undergrad had a lot of science courses, so I hope they will just be a repeat. Besides, I am highly motivated and enthusiastic, I just want to lauch at science courses and brush them off!, so I am thinking I can handle them in addition to pursuing a Nursing degree.

 

Also, is it a better option to start an undergrad degree (like in healthScience or general science) and focus on taking the science prereqs and calling off the undergrad after two years to seek adm. in my med of pharm school?

 

I think this has turned out really long.

I will end here and hope somebody has some information forme.

 

Thanks and Good luck to all those like me, starting out on this journey for medschool.

 

 

 

Jmm29

 

Kudos to you for making such a decision and great to see your passion towards health care. Don't worry about these haters that are posting negative or non supporting comments. Trust me, these people would love to be in your shoes i.e. making decent money as a RN and trying to get into medicine...so don't worry about them.

 

I am in a similar boat as you:

A little about me.

 

I am 31 years old(male...apparently gender is an imp issue here..*sarcasm*). I have a computer technology diploma from SAIT..worked in IT as a Database Administrator for 5 years.

 

I don't work in IT anymore. I work as a Nursing Attendant at Emergency and ICU on casual hours at Foothills Hospital while doing my third year in Bachelor of Nursing at Mount Royal University in Calgary. Below is the breakdown of my gpa etc.

 

Year 1 - 2.51 (30 credits)

year 2 - 2.83 (28 credits)

Year 3 - currently sitting at 3.70 aiming for 3.75 for the year (31 credits)

 

I've posted similar posts on this forum inquiring about the number of credits and the P/F clinicals etc that we have to take as part of our program. I actually talked to someone today who was a RN before and now in his 3rd year residency in Urology. He said I'll have to do another undergrad. It's nice to do a MN/NP route but med schools don't really look into your grad marks as much as they look into your undergraduate marks. So that's the advice I got from him.

 

 

 

 

The only thing I need to find out is if Alberta and Ontario Universities would recognize my second undergraduate via distance learning through Athabasca University.

 

Why is all this important to you?

 

Well by the time I am eligible to apply for med school I am looking at the summer of 2013 which means I'll be 34 years old. My motto is, I'll be 34 regardless so why not be 34 with a letter of acceptance to med school!

 

And you thought you were too old?

 

Good Luck and stay positive. Hope this encourages you even more!

 

Cheers

 

PS btw I am married and planning to have my first child after I finish Nursing degree )

[Scotty]

Yes, Yes, Yes and Yes... we have another old fart who is willing to drop everything half way through his thirties and start a new career in medicine.

 

I don't have a lot of questions to ask however I do want to let the other readers here know that being 34 and looking at an another bachelor's degree prior to medical school will most likely be a crazy a$$ thing anyone ever done.

 

I have a wonderful supportive girlfriend soon to be wife, possible kids, mortgage and nagging parents who wants grandchildren.

 

I don't regret anything that I did in my twenties as I have a post-secondary IT degree from SAIT (Alberta) and have lived and worked in Asia for 4 years. I know that I have built a strong core of non-academic groundwork however I know that my adversities that I have to overcome will be age/family and academics.

 

I just hope that these non-academics, work experience and most importantly the maturity will bring us "old farts" at the top of the selection criteria.

 

If the competition here is too difficult, then I am also considering Australia as a first world country medical training.

[MTtoMD]

Nother old fart here too. I'm married with 3 boys; the youngest is 3. I've got 2 years at UBC about a billion years ago and am thinking I'll have to go back and retake it all if they'll let me. Like I remember my o-chem class, ptthhh.

 

Been a pharm tech for 5 years and now work as a medical transcriptionist from home. I love the medicine, but feel like I should be doing more for that patient's care.

 

Here's to starting on this long endeavor and all the debt and hard work it entails. I think at our ages we have a better idea of what all that means!!

[itimebomb2]

Work experience and maturity will factor in minimally in your applications. Don't forget that young people can feign maturity in an interview.

 

Stay focused on your goal - Australia, Ireland and the Carribean are great options.

[WKim101]

Work Experience and Maturity probably matter more in the USA - where the can do a more holistic evaluation (which in the end is more subject to bias as well). Itimebomb2 is entirely correct - the young can pretend to be mature very easily - with practice, the MMI is easily to master, especially with old station questions from previous years floating around that help alot! In fact, if you didn't have access to old questions and help - you would probably be SOL on the actual interview! And in anything, it's young people with connections with tons of other premeds that have access to those resources.

 

Our class at MAC is probably the youngest medical school in English Canada (or among the youngest) - and we purport to be a med school looking for very mature applicants. Most of the people in our class on paper seem like superstars - but really, are not that much more different than any other group of young people when you meet us. Some are mature, some are immature, some are greedy, some are selfless, some are altruistic, some are honest, some are liars, some believe in justice, some are mecurial, some are elitist, some are fair. Don't think there is anything magical about who the admission process picks - despite our adcom people stating otherwise.

[NursingStudent]

PharMedstudy, Scotty, MTtoMd and other older applicants:

 

Great to see other people close to my age having the same passion, excitement and the goto attitude towards getting into med school.

 

First things first:

 

My BN degree's third and 4th year have too many clinical courses that are not considered for the 2 year gpa calculations by Dalhousie, Queens or UWO....the three Universities I am interested in since they're are my best chance of getting in.

 

Mind you this clinical experience and my future job as a RN goes long long way in gaining valuable experience in a health care field which works in very close conjunction with MDs in an Acute care environment. The patient-nurse relationship, meds, patient care, processing MD's orders etc all go long ways in having a strong foundation when it comes to the EC's aspect of the applications.

 

Now having said that this is what we all need to remember...age, EC's etc are all irrelevant. Unless you have a great gpa with good Mcat...none of these matter. These are all garbage or irrelevant. Hence, here is what my research has shown and this is what I'll be doing:

 

I complete my BN degree August 2011. I will be registering in Bachelor of Arts(Psychology) via distance learning at Mount St.Vincent University. I'll be taking two semesters(Sep-Dec & Jan-Apr) with 10 half credit courses. While I'll work as a RN 3 days a week. Some income better than none esp with family. I'll have my summer's off for working full time and travelling with the family etc. Then I'll come back again in Sep 2012 and register in 10 half credit courses and complete my BA in Psych in April 2013. Now mind you with my nursing degree and IT diploma I would've already gained Transfer Credits or Previous learning credits i.e. 60 credits. And with 2 years of 20 half credits gives me the remaining 60 credits. So 120 credits and I got myself a second undergrad degree with a very good gpa. Now sometime during next couple years I'll be writing my MCAT's as well. Then in 2013 I'll apply to the above listed 3 universities and go from there. At least at that point I'll feel somewhat eligible to apply and if I don;t get it, at least I'll have an answer of what I need to work on for the next year's application cycle. As long as it's not my gpa and mcat, since I should've taken care of it during my second undergraduate degree.

 

I would recommend this distance learning route since hopefully we're all mature enough to juggle our busy lives with full time coursework..something that we need to get used to if/when we do get into med school. Time management as a busy doctor's life and still having a lifestyle is something most med schools seek in their applicants.

 

So a great practice and a great response to when faced with a question of "Why do you think you're suitable for Medicine" in an interview.

 

So here is my plan in a nutshell.

 

Any other questions please feel free to contact me.

 

Cheers

Good Luck

 

Ps having a strong support at home front is the key to success for a mature student pursuing medicine. The only thing stopping you from this is yourself.

[NursingStudent]

In regards to an accelerated Nursing program. I'd recommend doing a second undergraduate in an area you have interest in. BSc in something or BA in something. Do it via distance learning. Not Athabasca or TRU or anyone that gives you 6 months to complete a course. But Laurentian, Mt.St.Vincent, Memorial etc that follow the conventional Sep-Apr academic terms. Take your 5 half course/term courseload. Work maybe a shift or two less than full time per week and enjoy your time with your loved ones. You don't want to miss the important things in life. Pursuing medicine shouldn't be a chore, it should be a lifestyle. Make it a second nature now and you wont' struggle in med school or as a doctor in future.

 

Nothing wrong with the accelerated nursing program but you'll have to goto classes full time and might not be able to work as much. The amount of time clinicals take surpasses any other traditional lecture hours. Nursing or non nursing doesn't matter to med schools. At this age EC's should not be an issue. Do your MCAT's when you can. You dont' have to take sciences to succeed in MCAT. Buy some materail, start preparing with about 5-10 hrs/week. give yourself a year and then write your MCAT.

 

If you have an acceptable good MCAT, great gpa and you still don't get in well then speak up and ask for the actual reasons for not getting in. And if one of the reasons or the only reason is your lack of science courses then do them and apply the following year, until then no need to worry about it. If a certain school has specific pre req's listed then just take those but don't take all of them at the same time. The three schools I've mentioned: Dalhousie - no specific pre reqs, Queens - maybe 2-3 coures, UWO - maybe 2-3 courses.don't know...anyhow not a big priority right now.

 

Hope this answers some questions. Mind you whatever I've said here is from people I know and what my plans are. Just telling you my plan..successful or not we wont know but at least I am giving it an honest try.

[RN2MD]

I emailed a number of Cdn med schools, to see how they would like at my gpas. I did a BA (2000) and put as little amount of work into it as possible. Took a few years off, then went did my BScN (I'm finishing my final year). My nursing degree is from a collaborative program, so I was also curious to know which schools would look at the 1st 2 yrs of it (at a college) or just the final 2 (@ university). I also didn't take a full courseload each year, as I was working as an RPN almost full-tim. Anyway, here's what they told me:

BTW - 1st degree= B.A (Queen's), 2nd degre=BScN (collab York U/Seneca College)

 

Queen's: Best 2 full-time years from any degree; full-time = 4 full courses, 8 half courses, or 24 credits sep-april

 

UWO: BScN only - all years; GPA calculated from 2 full-time years of study (Sep-Apr) - 5 full courses/only 1 pass-fail course per year

 

MAC: Queen’s + York cumulative GPA; all years; no requirement for full-time status

 

NOSM: Mature status; 1st & 2nd degree GPA calculated, as long as 1 full-time year in 2nd degree exists & take higher GPA of the 2 ; Seneca grades not included in GPA

 

Dalhousie: 2 most recent full-time years; full-time = 5 full credits

 

UCalgary:Best 2 full-time years (from either degree); full-time = 4 full courses/8 half credits/ 24 credits total (Sep-Apr); email re: Seneca years

 

Memorial: GPA calculated from all years of university/college ever taken; full-time status not required but considered

 

Hope this helps!

[railmd]

I have the same concern. I am finishing my BScN in Spring 2011 but lack science prerequisites. I have two options:

1. Take those science prerequisites through Ryerson's Chang School to have a good foundation of science (Chemistry and Physics, since I have already have a good foundation for Bio from my undergrad) in order to help me score good in MCAT and meet most of the requirements of medical schools.

or

2. start over again and do another degree (Life Science) from Mc, UfT, Ryerson.

With Option 1, I will have the chance to work for a PT job as an RN, once I get my designation in June 2011. With Option 2, I can still work but it will be limited because I'm going to need to study full-time form my second degree.

 

What do you guys think?

Your feedback will really be helpful and motivating. Thanks!

[RN2MD]

So long as your GPA is good from your BScN, I wouldn't bother doing another degree. Just get your pre-reqs, study for your MCAT, work & enjoy life

I'm planning on taking one full-year lifesci course once I'm done my BScN in August, then self-study for the MCAT. I learn better on my own, so I can't picture myself sitting through hours of lectures & labs for orgo, etc. But, that's just me. Personal preference I guess.

Also, if you went full-time to school, although you'd be able to get another academic reference, you'd be missing out on getting a good employment reference from working as an RN. If you went with option 1, you could also spend some of your time doing some research, and maybe get a publication or two down....and still be making money.

[railmd]

So long as your GPA is good from your BScN, I wouldn't bother doing another degree. Just get your pre-reqs, study for your MCAT, work & enjoy life

I'm planning on taking one full-year lifesci course once I'm done my BScN in August, then self-study for the MCAT. I learn better on my own, so I can't picture myself sitting through hours of lectures & labs for orgo, etc. But, that's just me. Personal preference I guess.

Also, if you went full-time to school, although you'd be able to get another academic reference, you'd be missing out on getting a good employment reference from working as an RN. If you went with option 1, you could also spend some of your time doing some research, and maybe get a publication or two down....and still be making money.

 

Thanks! I was actually leaning more with option 2 since I would have decent GPA by the time I graduate. Btw, where are you planning to take your science prereqs?

[RN2MD]

Thanks! I was actually leaning more with option 2 since I would have decent GPA by the time I graduate. Btw, where are you planning to take your science prereqs?

 

I just PMd you.

[hastin11]

Work Experience and Maturity probably matter more in the USA - where the can do a more holistic evaluation (which in the end is more subject to bias as well). Itimebomb2 is entirely correct - the young can pretend to be mature very easily - with practice, the MMI is easily to master, especially with old station questions from previous years floating around that help alot! In fact, if you didn't have access to old questions and help - you would probably be SOL on the actual interview! And in anything, it's young people with connections with tons of other premeds that have access to those resources.

 

Our class at MAC is probably the youngest medical school in English Canada (or among the youngest) - and we purport to be a med school looking for very mature applicants. Most of the people in our class on paper seem like superstars - but really, are not that much more different than any other group of young people when you meet us. Some are mature, some are immature, some are greedy, some are selfless, some are altruistic, some are honest, some are liars, some believe in justice, some are mecurial, some are elitist, some are fair. Don't think there is anything magical about who the admission process picks - despite our adcom people stating otherwise.

 

This is very, very true. I started med school this year and found the same thing--and I think my class are great people.

 

Its just anyone can act mature for 2 hours in an interview. The thought by some older applicants that they will have an advantage by dazzling the interviewers with their life experience is naive and rediculous. Older applicants--do not count on this.

 

In terms of the "is it worth applying"--my answer would probably be "no", but I cant really answer that for you. Im 21, and in 1st year meds, and I personally find it depressing that I could be not finish my residency until almost age 30. The thought of starting meds at that point? I couldnt do it, although I do applaud your passion. I will say that I hope at your age that your are sure you want this, and dont just think being a doctor sounds cool compared to your current jobs.

[kylamonkey]

 

Queen's: Best 2 full-time years from any degree; full-time = 4 full courses, 8 half courses, or 24 credits sep-april

 

I think this might be a little incorrect- it should be 3 full courses (8 half courses)

 

From here:http://meds.queensu.ca/undergraduate/prospective_students/application_procedures/frequently_asked_questions

 

Also note the MCAT requirements are the hardest part (for some) for Queen's.

 

UWO requires the degree be an honours or equivalent- which I think many nursing degrees are not.

 

Just some FYI.

[RN2MD]

I think this might be a little incorrect- it should be 3 full courses (8 half courses)

 

From here:http://meds.queensu.ca/undergraduate/prospective_students/application_procedures/frequently_asked_questions

 

Also note the MCAT requirements are the hardest part (for some) for Queen's.

 

UWO requires the degree be an honours or equivalent- which I think many nursing degrees are not.

 

Just some FYI.

 

Really? Only 3 courses = full-courseload? They must have revised it since they sent me that email. Good to know though. And that's even better for me...since I haven't carried a full-courseload every year.

Btw - all nursing degrees in Ontario are honours degrees. I think this is likely the same for most provinces. Never heard of a 3-yr nursing degree.