10 year rule under review

[kylamonkey]

here's another twist... what if that lowest year has a pre-requisite in it?

 

does the pre-req grade from that year still get used or do you have to retake the course to have a valid mark?

 

what if it's your first year and you have- 7 pre requisites... do you have to retake all of those courses?

 

it's funny when a potential rule change creates more questions than answers.

 

The old 10-yr rule created a lot of challenges too- I had to retake english, had to take 200-level chem courses, etc.

 

I just have to say- very nice sleuthing on the part of the person who found this!

 

And as a little aside, for anyone worried about my fate, if they take off my worst year (which fortunately has 30 credits and includes no prerequs) I am sitting at 75.998%.

 

We'll have to see when/if they announce it on the website.

[notmeadoc]

http://www.senate.ubc.ca/vancouver/schedule.cfm

 

****

C) Doctor of Medicine – Changes in Admission Requirements (approval)(circulated)

The Admissions Committee has reviewed and recommends to Senate for approval changes in admission requirements for applicants to the Doctor of Medicine program. The academic year with the lowest academic average (30 credits) may be excluded from the calculation of an admission average so long as the applicant still presents a minimum of 90 graded credits by the application deadline.

 

Motion: That Senate approve changes in admission requirements for applicants to the Doctor of Medicine program, effective for admission to the 2012 Winter Session and thereafter.

 

****

 

Kind of interesting...we will see if it gets approved.

 

Which month was this present in the Senate minutes? I can't seem to find it??

[iwh333]

I guess we will find out sometime late next week then if senate meeting is next wed.

[Gitbgff]

Does anyone know if senate meetings are open to the public? I think it could be interesting to hear how they argue for the change.

[notmeadoc]

kylamonkey...want to picket the senate meeting?

[kylamonkey]

kylamonkey...want to picket the senate meeting?

 

I do love me a good picketing/heckling, but I should probably attend my classes in Victoria that day.

[terminator]

Thanks, Meds400 for the post – at least we have a direction they are going in.

 

Kylamonkey, I know you were at one point organizing a list/petition of ppl affected by the change to the 10 year rule. Do you still have that? I thought it might be helpful to mail that to them, so they have a sense of who they are affecting. Overall, I can see how 10years is a long time for applicants to wait, but at the same time, what about the people who have waited that long to reapply and retaken all their pre-requisites taking the 10 year into account. Time, money and energy wasted, even with elimination of 30 credits of the lowest academic year.

 

As the website Meds400 passed on states: Material for Senate meetings should be sent to Senate & Curriculum Services by email to ginette.vallee@ubc.ca and copied to lisa.collins@ubc.ca at least two days prior to an Agenda Committee meeting.

 

I think it would be affective to get ourselves on this agenda! I am happy to help organize.

[notmeadoc]

PM me kylamonkey and terminator - I'm super happy to jump on this bandwagon.

[Chaplin]

I'm in a complicated situation. If the senate does approve this and UBC Medicine does allow applicants to remove their full time year (30 credits) with the lowest average would some one like me be able to take advantage of this rule :-

 

Sem 1 Summer 2008 (SFU) - 14 credits (3 pre reqs)

Sem 2 Fall 2008 (SFU) - 12 credits (2 pre reqs)

Sem 3 Winter 2009 (SFU) - 15 credits (2 pre reqs)

Sem 4 Summer 2009 (SFU) - 13 credits (3 pre reqs)

Sem 5 Fall 2009 (SFU) - 13 credits (1 pre reqs)

Sem 6 Winter 2010 (SFU) - 4 credits

Now at UBC and the yearly system.

 

Secondly :- Does MATH 100 at SFU count towards calculation of overall average?

Thanks in Advance

[kylamonkey]

I'm in a complicated situation. If the senate does approve this and UBC Medicine does allow applicants to remove their full time year (30 credits) with the lowest average would some one like me be able to take advantage of this rule :-

 

Sem 1 Summer 2008 (SFU) - 14 credits (3 pre reqs)

Sem 2 Fall 2008 (SFU) - 12 credits (2 pre reqs)

Sem 3 Winter 2009 (SFU) - 15 credits (2 pre reqs)

Sem 4 Summer 2009 (SFU) - 13 credits (3 pre reqs)

Sem 5 Fall 2009 (SFU) - 13 credits (1 pre reqs)

Sem 6 Winter 2010 (SFU) - 4 credits

Now at UBC and the yearly system.

 

Secondly :- Does MATH 100 at SFU count towards calculation of overall average?

Thanks in Advance

 

Chaplin

- nothing has been approved/announced yet

- we still don't know what the details are

 

All this below is only based on the limited details known, my knowledge of how the 10-yr-rule used to work, and speculation:

- you will need to have 90 credits after dropping your worst year. It does not look like that will be the case for you, as you would need to have 118 credits completed by the application deadline. (if you drop the 2008-2009 year)

- Essentially, the policy will only benefit those who are holding a degree at the application deadline.

- With the old 10-yr-rule, if you lost pre-requs, you needed to retake them or take higher-level courses. My situation- I retook English112 (UBC) and they used my marks from Chem 222 and 245 (UVic) to replace the 100-level Chem pre-reqs that got dropped when I used the 10-yr-rule.

[kylamonkey]

I think that if senate had to approve the 'no essay' portion of the application, then this 10 year rule will need approval as well... On another note.. I don't see why senate would shut this down though to be honest. It is looking grim from my point of view for the applicants who have been relying on the 10 year rule. I say you guys should probably speak up before they meet

 

It has been made very clear- the 10-yr rule is gone. They have not yet announced what they will replace it with, but I suspect once this gets approved this will be it.

 

Let me repeat- the 10-year rule is no longer valid. This was announced months ago. I should prob change my signature LOL.

[ryacha]

That is neat that they are looking at dropping the lowest year (although I still think 10 year rule should stand as I would feel pretty shafted if they looked 10 years back and considered those grades. I would be 12, starting highschool!) but at least it is something.

 

I wonder what effect this will have on average applicant GPA. For me it would mean a 2.5% GPA hike up after conversion between schools. I wonder if most people will see that much or even more?

 

Just for a little clarification, has it been identified, assuming it passes, what the credit load needs to be in that year or is that info still to (hopefully) come?

[LeX-]

Will be interesting to see how years with prerequisites are considered for this potential system.

 

Maybe it will be all the courses except the prerequisites in that year or maybe after the meeting, the policy will change to lowest non-prerequisite credits instead of lowest year

[MarathonRunner]

Will be interesting to see how years with prerequisites are considered for this potential system.

 

Maybe it will be all the courses except the prerequisites in that year or maybe after the meeting, the policy will change to lowest non-prerequisite credits instead of lowest year

 

Or maybe they will do something like U of A, where you need to have the pre-requisites, but if, for example, you take them in the summer, they don't count into your GPA? (I know plenty of people who took orgo and English during the summer precisely to get around this issue with U of A.) In other words, you need to have the pre-requisite, but if it is in your dropped year, then as long as you passed the course, that's all that matters?

[kylamonkey]

OK- so pre-reqs.

 

The way it worked with the 10-yr-rule, is they would take later courses you completed in lieu of the pre-reqs, OR you could redo the pre-req if it was allowed.

 

The way it worked in my case-

I took 200-leve chem courses that were my "pre-reqs" in lieu of the 100-level chem that got dropped from my 1997 record.

I re-took 100-level english to have a pre-requisite english course.

 

Other people I know-

One guy had his 100-level BIOL dropped from his GPA because of the 10-yr-rule, but since he had later gone back and done a biology degree, they actually wound up counting a 200-level and a 300-level BIOL course as prerequs. They were the first BIOL courses he took when he returned to school.

 

So what I expect will happen is that if you will be dropping a year with prerequs, you will either have to use a later-completed, higher-level course in lieu of it, or retake it, or take a higher-level course. In the past, these courses could be in-progress, so if you are going to take advantage of this and it will drop a pre-req, you will have the school year to complete a replacement.

 

This is entirely speculation, but I am writing this to let you know that it is possible to implement a system like this and have it work.

 

Oh, and to ryacha, who mentioned that 10 yrs is a long time ago, think of it this way- all my bad marks were LAST CENTURY.... lol

[ryacha]

Oh, and to ryacha, who mentioned that 10 yrs is a long time ago, think of it this way- all my bad marks were LAST CENTURY.... lol

 

Haha try last millennium! I think a millennium should warrant you getting to drop those classes

[Chaplin]

Chaplin

- nothing has been approved/announced yet

- we still don't know what the details are

 

All this below is only based on the limited details known, my knowledge of how the 10-yr-rule used to work, and speculation:

- you will need to have 90 credits after dropping your worst year. It does not look like that will be the case for you, as you would need to have 118 credits completed by the application deadline. (if you drop the 2008-2009 year)

- Essentially, the policy will only benefit those who are holding a degree at the application deadline.

- With the old 10-yr-rule, if you lost pre-requs, you needed to retake them or take higher-level courses. My situation- I retook English112 (UBC) and they used my marks from Chem 222 and 245 (UVic) to replace the 100-level Chem pre-reqs that got dropped when I used the 10-yr-rule.

 

Yes I understand that and I still have time before I apply and likely more than 120 credits due to institution change. But its because i've been taking consecutive semesters and only one of them 15 credits and all of them having one or more pre req's ( I don't mind repeating them one bit) I cant help wondering whether i'll even be eligible to drop a year of full time course work, and if i can will it be the two consecutive semesters averaging the lowest GPA and holding full time status (according to SFU).

[iwh333]

hmm, i don't see them making you do those pre reqs again. i can see most people dropping their first or second year which have the majority of pre reqs. it will still be counted for in the pre req average anyways. is U of A like this?

[medprospect981]

Yes I understand that and I still have time before I apply and likely more than 120 credits due to institution change. But its because i've been taking consecutive semesters and only one of them 15 credits and all of them having one or more pre req's ( I don't mind repeating them one bit) I cant help wondering whether i'll even be eligible to drop a year of full time course work, and if i can will it be the two consecutive semesters averaging the lowest GPA and holding full time status (according to SFU).

 

I don't see why they wouldn't drop your lowest year regardless of how many credits you took.

 

For example if you asked them to drop a year with 25 credits instead of 30, you would really just be allowing them to look at more overall credits then someone who asks for their lowest year with 30 credits.

[MarathonRunner]

hmm, i don't see them making you do those pre reqs again. i can see most people dropping their first or second year which have the majority of pre reqs. it will still be counted for in the pre req average anyways. is U of A like this?

 

This is what U of A says:

For applicants who have completed 4 or more years of post-secondary transferable course work, the admissions cumulative (academic) average is calculated with the deletion of the lowest year GPA, provided it is not the most recent completed year, nor the one and only year where 30 transferable units of course weight (5 full course equivalents) have been completed.

 

And then:

Courses that are failed are considered to be deficient. A minimum grade of C- (or equivalent) is required in any transfer course used to meet a prerequisite requirement.

 

Basically, for the pre-reqs, if they happen to be in your lowest year (the year that U of A drops), then you simply need to have completed them, with a grade of C- or better. They don't count in your GPA if they are in your dropped year.

 

Maybe UBC will do something similar, or maybe they'll handle things they way they have with the 10-year rule, that you need to have a higher-level course in the same discipline, if the pre-req is in your dropped year.

 

But who knows? It is all speculation at this point.

[Guest BluePin]

Thanks to whoever started this thread, although it is bad news for me.

 

I'm currently in the process of completing some extra courses, solely for UBC (as they are repeats of courses that would be omitted under the 10 year rule), with the goal of excluding an additional year of old coursework.

 

I undertook this based on a specific discussion with the admissions office over the summer. Bummer to find out now, after spending $$ in tuition.

 

HOWEVER, better to find out now (10 days before the drop date) than be stuck completing some classes that are of absolutely no use.

 

I will post if I find out anything of interest from the admissions office.

[ubc_earnestw]

So, looks like tomorrow is the big day. Anyone planning on going to watch the proposal or raise issues with it? (I'm not 100% if senate meetings are open to the public).

 

The 10 year rule isn't the most essential to me, as the new rule would essentially have the same affect on my application since it was only my first year that was poor...but I think all the complaints that have been raised here is something the senate should at least be aware of before making their decision.

[garret9]

So, looks like tomorrow is the big day. Anyone planning on going to watch the proposal or raise issues with it? (I'm not 100% if senate meetings are open to the public).

 

The 10 year rule isn't the most essential to me, as the new rule would essentially have the same affect on my application since it was only my first year that was poor...but I think all the complaints that have been raised here is something the senate should at least be aware of before making their decision.

 

Print out the conversation and drop it off

[notmeadoc]

This sounds like what's likely to go through...

 

THE UNIVERSITY OF BRITISH COLUMBIA

UBC Undergraduate Admissions Proposal Form Change to Admission Requirements

Faculty: Medicine Department: MD Undergraduate

Admissions Faculty Approval Date: December 21, 2010 Effective Session: 2012 Winter Session Term 1 Year for Change: 2011

Date: January 19, 2011 Contact Person: Joan Munro Phone: 604-875-4111, ext 68933 Email: jmunro@medd.med.ubc.ca

URL: http://www.calendar.ubc.ca/vancouver/i ndex.cfm?tree=12,209,374,340

Proposed Calendar Entry:

Required Academic Standards

Applications for admission will be considered from candidates who will have completed all prerequisite courses prior to April 30 of the year for which admission is sought, have taken the MCAT, and who have attained a minimum overall academic average of 70% based on all university- level courses attempted.

There is an overall threshold academic average below which full file review will not be performed.

All supporting documentation (including transcripts, citizenship documentation, AP/IB transcripts, high school transcripts, foreign transcripts, exchange program or study abroad transcripts, etc.) that arrive in the Admissions Office after the posted application deadline will not be accepted and will result in the application being rendered ineligible.

Persons who have been required to withdraw from another medical school for

URL: http://www.calendar.ubc.ca/vancouver/i ndex.cfm?tree=12,209,374,340

Present Calendar Entry:

Required Academic Standards

Applications for admission will be considered from candidates who will have completed all prerequisite courses prior to April 30 of the year for which admission is sought, have taken the MCAT, and who have attained a minimum overall academic average of 70% based on all university- level courses attempted.

There is an overall threshold academic average below which full file review might not be performed.

All supporting documentation (including transcripts, citizenship documentation, AP/IB transcripts, high school transcripts, foreign transcripts, exchange program or study abroad transcripts, etc.) that arrive in the Admissions Office after the posted application deadline will not be accepted and will result in the application being rendered ineligible.

Persons who have been required to withdraw from another medical school for

THE UNIVERSITY OF BRITISH COLUMBIA

academic reasons are not eligible to apply.

Selection Process

The entering class for this coming September is limited to 288 full-time students. The number of qualified applicants significantly exceeds the number of available positions. Therefore, not every qualified applicant will be offered admission. Admission is based on a selection process which strives to enroll the most highly qualified applicants who will be evaluated on the following criteria:

1. Two academic evaluations are calculated:

(a) overall academic average, based on all university-level courses attempted (including summer courses and graduate courses with grades). The academic year (September-August) with the lowest academic average will be

academic reasons are not eligible to apply.

Applicants who have completed university- level courses ten years or more prior to the date of application may apply in writing to have these grades excluded from the calculation of their overall average. If grades are waived, all coursework of that year and prior would be excluded from consideration (e.g., prerequisite courses taken during the excluded period will not be considered). Applicants must still have completed at least 90 credits after exclusion of early coursework has been applied, and ensure the required prerequisite courses have been fulfilled.

Persons who have been required to withdraw from another medical school for academic reasons are not eligible to apply.

Selection Process

The entering class for this coming September is limited to 288 full-time students. The number of qualified applicants significantly exceeds the number of available positions. Therefore, not every qualified applicant will be offered admission. Admission is based on a selection process which strives to enroll the most highly qualified applicants who will be evaluated on the following criteria:

1.

Three academic evaluations are calculated:

a. overall academic average, based on all university-level courses attempted (including summer courses and graduate courses with grades, if applicable)

THE UNIVERSITY OF BRITISH COLUMBIA

dropped (if applicable). At most, 30 credits can be dropped. If more than 30 credits are presented in one academic year, the 30 credits with the lowest grades will be removed. In order to have the academic year with the lowest academic average dropped, applicants must have 90 credits with grades remaining by the application deadline.

( prerequisite average

2. MCAT scores

3. The evaluation of non-academic criteria based on the following:

a. a list of extracurricular activities prepared by the applicant

b. a report of non-academic experiences and a rural interest statement

c. interview, if granted d. three references, when

requested e. rural/remote suitability (if

applicable) f. essay by Aboriginal (First

Nations, Métis, or Inuit) candidates who are applying to the Aboriginal stream

Please refer to M.D. Undergraduate Admissions Evaluation Criteria for additional information.

2.

b. most recent 60 credits average (note: the number of credits used may vary for some applicants)

c. prerequisite average

The evaluation of non-academic criteria is based on the following:

a. a list of extracurricular activities prepared by the applicant

b. a report of non-academic experiences and a rural interest statement

c. interview, if granted d. three references, when

requested e. rural/remote suitability (if

applicable) f. essay by Aboriginal (First

Nations, Métis, or Inuit) candidates who are applying to the Aboriginal stream

Please refer to M.D. Undergraduate Admissions Evaluation Criteria for additional information.

________________________________

Type of Action:

Replace “might” with “will”; Delete paragraph on exclusion of grades from ten or more years prior to application deadline; Removal of most recent 60 credits calculation; Selection process: added” MCAT scores”

Rationale:

Files with overall academic averages below stated thresholds [75% for BC

THE UNIVERSITY OF BRITISH COLUMBIA

residents, 80% for out of province applicants] will not be reviewed – to provide more realistic information for applicants with low averages, so they do not waste their time & money on an application which will not succeed given the very competitive application process; Only benefitted a relatively few applicants – now replaced with the elimination of the lowest academic year for all applicants meeting the criteria;

The “most recent/Last 60 credits” calculation was intended to help those applicants who did less well academically in their early years – no longer applicable with the elimination of grades from the lowest academic year;

MCAT scores were included as part of Academic criteria in 2008-09 Calendar, but taken out in 2009-10 when we required minimum MCAT scores. However, the scores received are still a factor in the selection process, so put back in.

[K-Doc]

Wtf? Is it just me or is that a lot of changes?? I wish it was formatted so it was clearer-everything is so scrambled! Oh and both those links didn't work for me!