musya Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Since you all are so smart!!! and getting this unbelievable sky high GPA (my respect!!!) , I’m wondering WHAT MARKS YOU HAD IN HIGH SCHOOL. . I’m a mom of Grade 12 bright and dedicated student. My son wants to be an emergency doc but does not believe in his academic abilities. Not all his marks are high now and we have no idea how he’ll be doing in university… His Biology 12 is 91, English 12 & Chemistry 12 - 80, Physics 12 – A. Math 12 will be probably A. He started volunteering in adult division St. John Ambulance just after turning 16 ( it’s almost 2 years now) and he loves it. He already found a place to volunteer this summer in hospital with older people. He has weight training instructor diploma. He is also a big book worm. I think his marks are a little low now because he was smart and was OK with getting whatever grades without doing any homework and building his learning skills. Now, since he realized he wants to be a doctor (just before Grade 12), he started doing all homework but marks are not consistent and not high enough to get to UBC. For now, he applied to Univ. Victoria, UBC Kelowna & Vancouver, SFU (Surrey and Burnaby), Univ. of Fraser Valley and some college for Biochemistry. At the same time, he is afraid if he does make to medical school, he won’t have a good job with his Bachelor in Biochem…. His strongest subject is Biology; he got his 91 marks without any effort. He is having fun in Physics now. Math is tough for him since he did not have a strong foundation, so he works with an amazing tutor on it. Anyway, thank you for listening. We have a lot teenager mood swing at home: will I make it? I won’t make it, I should be a pilot or an engineer instead… and back and forth… I want to say this forum has so much info and you guys are so amazing! I wish you all the best in your life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medlor2010 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Straight A's eh? Yeah, terrible marks indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Hey there, and welcome I think the marks you get in university are very dependant on the amount of work you put into your schooling. There are tons of resources available on all campus' to help students succeed (the biggest being professor and TA office hours) and provided you put the effort in, your GPA will turn out well. So if your son is willing to put in the effort to study outside of class and seek help when he doesn't understand a topic, he will be in good shape to get the gpa he wants A lot goes into the decision process of whether or not an applicant gets an invite and your gpa is just one of many things that they consider. That being said, he can still apply to most medschools regardless of his undergrad degree provided he has the prerequisite courses. If he really wants to do engineering he should apply for that then just work towards getting the required courses in for medschool. Hope it helps and best of luck! Straight A's eh? Yeah, terrible marks indeed. Highschool marks are relative. I know a girl who had a 95% coming into first year and basically failed all of her courses. (Even if you dont put in any work a 95 to a fail makes 0 sense...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janeway Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Just an FYI, your undergrad area is pretty much irrelevant to getting into med school. As long as it's in a general biological science-y area, most med schools don't care and it will help prep you for the MCAT. Your son should feel NO PRESSURE to do a biochem degree just for medical school. As for the high school marks, the 'general rule' for correlation with uni marks is subtract 10 - 15% from your average. This was definitely true for me in first year (I went from a 90 to an 80 average), however, now that I'm older I have about an 85 (due to working harder and more strategically). The extent to which your marks drop from high school to uni (and believe me, they will probably drop) is very dependent on the amount you work and how difficult your courses are. It also depends on how difficult your university is. I go to U of T (St. George), where it is notoriously difficult to get good marks. If I had gone to an easier university, my marks would have dropped less. The bottom line is pick your school and courses well, and work hard, and you'll minimize the drop in your marks Good luck to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notjk Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Just an FYI, your undergrad area is pretty much irrelevant to getting into med school. As long as it's in a general biological science-y area, most med schools don't care and it will help prep you for the MCAT. Your son should feel NO PRESSURE to do a biochem degree just for medical school. As for the high school marks, the 'general rule' for correlation with uni marks is subtract 10 - 15% from your average. This was definitely true for me in first year (I went from a 90 to an 80 average), however, now that I'm older I have about an 85 (due to working harder and more strategically). The extent to which your marks drop from high school to uni (and believe me, they will probably drop) is very dependent on the amount you work and how difficult your courses are. It also depends on how difficult your university is. I go to U of T (St. George), where it is notoriously difficult to get good marks. If I had gone to an easier university, my marks would have dropped less. The bottom line is pick your school and courses well, and work hard, and you'll minimize the drop in your marks Good luck to him. +1 everything what she said, except the fact about a hard university, I am just wondering what University are you comparing to (and program) because they all are different, and I am just tired of hearing that, and I am not hating on you. So please tell which university you had a much easier experience with and how with UofT St.George. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notjk Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Since you all are so smart!!! and getting this unbelievable sky high GPA (my respect!!!) , I’m wondering WHAT MARKS YOU HAD IN HIGH SCHOOL. . I’m a mom of Grade 12 bright and dedicated student. My son wants to be an emergency doc but does not believe in his academic abilities. Not all his marks are high now and we have no idea how he’ll be doing in university… His Biology 12 is 91, English 12 & Chemistry 12 - 80, Physics 12 – A. Math 12 will be probably A. He started volunteering in adult division St. John Ambulance just after turning 16 ( it’s almost 2 years now) and he loves it. He already found a place to volunteer this summer in hospital with older people. He has weight training instructor diploma. He is also a big book worm. I think his marks are a little low now because he was smart and was OK with getting whatever grades without doing any homework and building his learning skills. Now, since he realized he wants to be a doctor (just before Grade 12), he started doing all homework but marks are not consistent and not high enough to get to UBC. For now, he applied to Univ. Victoria, UBC Kelowna & Vancouver, SFU (Surrey and Burnaby), Univ. of Fraser Valley and some college for Biochemistry. At the same time, he is afraid if he does make to medical school, he won’t have a good job with his Bachelor in Biochem…. His strongest subject is Biology; he got his 91 marks without any effort. He is having fun in Physics now. Math is tough for him since he did not have a strong foundation, so he works with an amazing tutor on it. Anyway, thank you for listening. We have a lot teenager mood swing at home: will I make it? I won’t make it, I should be a pilot or an engineer instead… and back and forth… I want to say this forum has so much info and you guys are so amazing! I wish you all the best in your life! Of course as people have mentioned, you don't need biochem to get into medical school. But if he does end up doing bio chem, he will have to do calculus. ( whether it is applied or not I do would not know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedDream Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 I had quite a high average coming into university and found that my marks did drop a fair amount first semester of first year (barely scraped a 75 average). This was mainly because I studied the same way I did in high school... hardly at all. University is about making connections and really understanding the material, ON TOP of memorizing the stuff they want you to. Just take advantage of all the resources made available, and it will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
<abstract> Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 I had a decent average my last year : ~ 88-89%, that is not including calculus and vectors where I got a whopping 69% ; although i really did care about that class cause all i had to do was pass to get into the university i wanted with my scholorship. You don't have to be the smartest person in the world to aspire to be a doctor, you just have to work hard and eventually you will achieve your goal. I know plenty of my friends who had'high 80s in high school that failed courses required for their degree and others who had a mix of 70's and 80's throughout highschool who are doing really well. I found that the main change from highschool to university is that university is self directed learning. You have to find a major you truly love or you will not spend the time to learn the material. Also, you son sounds like he is well on his way: -a decent gpa, and good established e.c.'s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treejuice1 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Don't let his high school experience phase him. Nobody believed that I was academically capable in high school because I failed a few courses early on and finished grade 12 with an average under 80%. I'm finishing up my third year now with about a 90% cumulative average I just had little patience in high school for the teachers that picked favourites, which was most of them at my school, unfortunately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neuronix Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 how about you let your son make his own decisions? A startling idea, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 the reality check is that success for most people is just hard work and knowing how the "system" works in grade 10/11 i would say 60's, in grade 12, if you count the courses i was failing and dropped out of in the last couple weeks of the course to repeat i would say the same, since those courses didn't count i think i got 80 or something. i don't remember my uni gpa, it was around 3.8/4.0 most people in medicine or any field held in very high regard are intrinsically average in every way (with the exception of musical/mathematical prodigies/savants etc.). their success is based 95 percent on luck, their environment, hard work, and building a knowledge base that allows you to develop algorithms to cross interpret information efficiently. in other words, you can "learn" to be smart he can get whatever degree he want, period, even music, art history, etc., you just have to take some pre requisite basic science courses, imo, if you don't enjoy biochem, beyond introductory courses it's rather worthless in medicine, your don't think of the structure of norepinephrine protein when you prescribe a beta blocker, you just learn its properties at the most basic level, medicine is a "professional" program, you're not a scientist, youre a practitioner, just like a mechanic i did a psychology degree, it was awesome, i tell everyone, unless you're an expert (have a phd), or a professional (engineer), people prefer generalists, and biochem grads have a narrow scope of study but insufficient expertise to be useful in research etc. the only friend i know with a biochem degree that has a job is a gas line salesman i got lots of good job offers but didn't end up taking them because i got into med, presumably because my degree had all sorts of courses and employers assumed that background would allow me to learn on the job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clever Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 The most difficult thing in university is developing effective study habits. You could be a 90's student who only studies the night before an exam, but that just wont do for university. The material may only be slightly more difficult, but you have 5 classes which require you to learn more material in a shorter amount of time. On top of this, exams are MUCH more difficult (In my opinion). They require you to be able to do more than associate one word with another (eg. having cell division in the question and the answer being mitosis). I was a low 70's student in highschool and now (First year) my lowest mark has been 82. Some of my bio lab partners were 90's students in full IB/AP but are B/B+ university students. University life consists of 3 things: Good grades, sleep, and a social life. But you can only choose 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corie Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 For those who can "think", getting into medschool is really 100% hard work. Achieving a 4.0 isn't hard but just requires dedication and a good study habit (both of which I'm still working on). I don't particularily find high school grades correspond to university grades. I didn't do well at all in high school but things somehow changed at university. A good work habit is key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in2bat0r Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 I somewhat agree with the above statement. I had around an 80% average in high school and had no intentions of pursuing medicine or any other degree when I left high school. I went into the health care work force and became inspired to be a physician. When I started my first semester I knew what I needed to achieve and I committed myself 100%. My first semester was a 3.94. I think if your son makes that commitment and dedicates himself to pursuing medicine he will do alright, but only he can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curi0user Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Since you all are so smart!!! and getting this unbelievable sky high GPA (my respect!!!) , I’m wondering WHAT MARKS YOU HAD IN HIGH SCHOOL. . I’m a mom of Grade 12 bright and dedicated student. My son wants to be an emergency doc but does not believe in his academic abilities. Not all his marks are high now and we have no idea how he’ll be doing in university… His Biology 12 is 91, English 12 & Chemistry 12 - 80, Physics 12 – A. Math 12 will be probably A. He started volunteering in adult division St. John Ambulance just after turning 16 ( it’s almost 2 years now) and he loves it. He already found a place to volunteer this summer in hospital with older people. He has weight training instructor diploma. He is also a big book worm. I think his marks are a little low now because he was smart and was OK with getting whatever grades without doing any homework and building his learning skills. Now, since he realized he wants to be a doctor (just before Grade 12), he started doing all homework but marks are not consistent and not high enough to get to UBC. For now, he applied to Univ. Victoria, UBC Kelowna & Vancouver, SFU (Surrey and Burnaby), Univ. of Fraser Valley and some college for Biochemistry. At the same time, he is afraid if he does make to medical school, he won’t have a good job with his Bachelor in Biochem…. His strongest subject is Biology; he got his 91 marks without any effort. He is having fun in Physics now. Math is tough for him since he did not have a strong foundation, so he works with an amazing tutor on it. Anyway, thank you for listening. We have a lot teenager mood swing at home: will I make it? I won’t make it, I should be a pilot or an engineer instead… and back and forth… I want to say this forum has so much info and you guys are so amazing! I wish you all the best in your life! If this is what your son truly wants, he is doing perfectly fine and is on the right track! I think the only thing left to do is to reassure him that you believe in him, his abilities, and you support his decisions. The rest will unravel. If he wants it bad enough, and with your support, he will get there! =] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOC_Ma Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 ask him to get on this site at least. If he wants med then this little research should be done by himself. Stop being a helicopter parent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBoss Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 As many people have already said, grades generally go down when a student gets to university, but as with everything there are exceptions. Sometimes people do better in uni; my grades actually went a up a bit. I did work hard though. ...develop algorithms to cross interpret information efficiently. in other words, you can "learn" to be smart I think this is true, and I also think that the tricky part is that for different people this may come differently. For example, some people use a lot of mnemonics to memorize things, whereas I never liked mnemonics, and I like to "visualize" things as much as possible (sometimes abstract concepts as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerena Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Since you all are so smart!!! and getting this unbelievable sky high GPA (my respect!!!) , I’m wondering WHAT MARKS YOU HAD IN HIGH SCHOOL. . I’m a mom of Grade 12 bright and dedicated student. My son wants to be an emergency doc but does not believe in his academic abilities. Not all his marks are high now and we have no idea how he’ll be doing in university… His Biology 12 is 91, English 12 & Chemistry 12 - 80, Physics 12 – A. Math 12 will be probably A. He started volunteering in adult division St. John Ambulance just after turning 16 ( it’s almost 2 years now) and he loves it. He already found a place to volunteer this summer in hospital with older people. He has weight training instructor diploma. He is also a big book worm. I think his marks are a little low now because he was smart and was OK with getting whatever grades without doing any homework and building his learning skills. Now, since he realized he wants to be a doctor (just before Grade 12), he started doing all homework but marks are not consistent and not high enough to get to UBC. For now, he applied to Univ. Victoria, UBC Kelowna & Vancouver, SFU (Surrey and Burnaby), Univ. of Fraser Valley and some college for Biochemistry. At the same time, he is afraid if he does make to medical school, he won’t have a good job with his Bachelor in Biochem…. His strongest subject is Biology; he got his 91 marks without any effort. He is having fun in Physics now. Math is tough for him since he did not have a strong foundation, so he works with an amazing tutor on it. Anyway, thank you for listening. We have a lot teenager mood swing at home: will I make it? I won’t make it, I should be a pilot or an engineer instead… and back and forth… I want to say this forum has so much info and you guys are so amazing! I wish you all the best in your life! If your son wants a little bit of advice about biochemistry, you should send a PM my way. I am two finals, 1 paper, and 1 presentation away from a biochemistry degree. If he is going into biochemistry because he feels like he needs to do biochem to get into med school, and has no interest in biochem, I would STRONGLY advise him to see what types of degrees are out there and then decide. You don't have to be set on a major in your first year and you do NOT have to do biochemistry. You do, however, need to have an awesome GPA. I started off in a degree I loved (biomed) but switched into biochemistry because I was told it was the only way I could become a doctor. Now, my marks in high school were really nice (97% average taking all the "hard" classes except Calc and Phys 12). My average in biochem is significantly lower. And it's because I cannot stand biochemistry. And I've done 4+ years in it!! Also, as some others have said, in biochemistry your son will have to take calculus. I rocked math in high school (97-100% from grade 8 to grade 12 - no tutor) but university calculus is NOT easy, especially Calculus 2. If he does decide to do biochemistry, there are a few things you can do with that kind of degree. You can try law school, dentistry, medicine, library science. You could do a masters degree and become a professor, researcher, or PhD candidate. My boyfriend is going to apply to law school There are lots of options out there. Not just "scientist" like most would think. I am not trying to discourage your son's ambitions to become a doctor at all. I think it's great! But as applicants we have to see what our strengths are and let those shine. Choosing a degree that your son enjoys will do just that. And it will hopefully help pave the way to having time to do extracurriculars he enjoys, studying for the MCAT and getting a great score, and enjoying his degree. 4+ years can be a long time and you don't want to get burned out doing something you don't enjoy:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixFlare500 Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 I would STRONGLY advise him to see what types of degrees are out there and then decide I'd just like to add that this could be any university degree. I have a classmate who did a degree in music (and is now an amazing pianist) and apparently there's someone with a philosophy degree in the year above me. Your son should do a degree that he's interested in, not one that he feels will be a better path into medicine. ask him to get on this site at least. If he wants med then this little research should be done by himself. I'd also like to politely re-iterate this point. There's a lot of good information that you can get off of this site (Mind you with any online forum there will be incorrect information too, you just have to do research on it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOC_Ma Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 I'd just like to add that this could be any university degree. I have a classmate who did a degree in music (and is now an amazing pianist) and apparently there's someone with a philosophy degree in the year above me. Your son should do a degree that he's interested in, not one that he feels will be a better path into medicine. I'd also like to politely re-iterate this point. There's a lot of good information that you can get off of this site (Mind you with any online forum there will be incorrect information too, you just have to do research on it). This is not my point. My point is get her son to do the research himself. I mean this is like one of the major decisions one has to make and getting your mom to do it for u is NOT a good idea. I am saying this for his own good really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixFlare500 Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 I know but I decided not to say that part 'cause I thought it sounded harsh and I figured they'd figure that out on their own eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musya Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Thank you so much for your very wise and inspiring answers!!! I think they will help many confused souls for years. I just want to say that ALL that my son wants to do is medicine and BioChem (he thought) would be the shortest road to the aspiration…. After spending a great deal of time in hospitals, he was influenced by the physicians’ intellect, wisdom and compassion. He is desired to help people in suffering… I wish there would be a Premed program somewhere in Canada…. Where else can he go with his excellent Biology and like to Physics? Calculus is Ok with him; he is taking it now. Also, I do not think he’ll ask here for help since he’s a teenager learning life on his own… sorry guys… maybe later, in one year : ))) Thank you again for your help, time and input!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattg Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 The closest thing Ontario/Canada has to 'pre-med' is the McMaster Health Science program Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 The closest thing Ontario/Canada has to 'pre-med' is the McMaster Health Science program he can't get in, 90 hard cut-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattg Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 yea i know, i was just saying btw, in terms of liking bio and physics, there are plenty of programs other than biochem that incorporate the two subjects... biophysics, biomechanical engineering, biomedical engineering, systems biology, neuroscience, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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