Inthemaking Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Hello premed101 forums. I am a grade 12 student and will be starting my med school "process" if you can call it that...next fall 2011 at Mcmaster for science. Ok now, I understand that is is really HARD to get into medicine in Canada, but I mean is it so hard that it isn't even worth the try? Eevery university student I ask advice from laughs in my facing saying that the med school hope will disappear? WHY? ..I mean all you are applying to med school aren't you? what's with all the discouragement that I am getting from the people I asked? I understand that I have to be realistic but I mean just because something is hard doesn't mean it is impossible.... So I wanted to know the reason behind this negativity..is it because its hard to get a good GPA? I mean I was told that university is hard, but I was also told the same about elementary, middle school and high-school and in all those I adjusted just fine (at least 80s in all courses) So I just wanted to know the reality...and the story behind the negativity. Thank you in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBP Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 First day of BIO150 at UofT, Prof. Barrett asked the class who wants to go into medicine. I'd estimate about 80% raised their hands, in a 1000 person class. It's about a 1:10 chance to get into medicine in Ontario. That's where the negativity comes from. It's extremely competitive. People do get into medical school though. So don't be discouraged. Just work hard, play the game, and see what becomes of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inthemaking Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 First day of BIO150 at UofT, Prof. Barrett asked the class who wants to go into medicine. I'd estimate about 80% raised their hands, in a 1000 person class. It's about a 1:10 chance to get into medicine in Ontario. That's where the negativity comes from. It's extremely competitive. People do get into medical school though. So don't be discouraged. Just work hard, play the game, and see what becomes of it. HAHA, thats scary, but informative! I am assuming you were one of the people with a raised hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpy Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 It's really a question of numbers. Many people want to enter medical school, but there are very few places. The reality is that about 25% of people who apply get in every year, but even before this happens many people decide not to apply. The number of people who actually get into medicine out of everyone who enters university trying to become a doctor is probably more like 1/8 or 1/10. It's just very difficult is all. The odds are against the average student. But there are still thousands of students each year who enter medical school in Canada. They come from all backgrounds and with different abilities. What you should be considering throughout your time in university is whether you truly want to become a doctor. There are many downsides to medicine. Take the time to volunteer, shadow, and talk to people about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBP Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 HAHA, thats scary, but informative! I am assuming you were one of the people with a raised hand? I actually found it pointless to raise my hand (perhaps some of the naive first years thought that Barrett would pick them from the herd)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inthemaking Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 ^ I agrree, good choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatonekid Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 It is tougher to get good grades in university compared to high school for a variety of reasons, and that's part of what makes trying to get into med school difficult. Since so many people apply for so few spots, GPA is used as a cutoff for a lot of schools in Canada. As a result, this drives the need for people to want 90+/A+ in their classes to ensure that they are competitive (note: I'm not saying you need to get all A+s to get into med school). Plus, you have to balance getting good grades with doing ECs/volunteering. Best advice I can give you is to have good time management skills and to talk to your prof/TA if you don't understand something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inthemaking Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Because you are a U of T student I thought I should ask. In terms of selecting the right undergrad program, would you recommend U of T for a med school oriented student? as in the opportunities, research and so on? I am asking because I have offers from U of T, Mac and York and don't know what to choose for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBP Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 UofT is tough, don't let anyone say otherwise to you. It's not the content, but the competition you're with. This really affects the grading (and the curving). You're even competing to get a research position (if you don't make an attempt to secure a summer position before Christmas it will be tough to find a PI). McMaster is not a bad choice at all. Prestige doesn't matter, so York and Ryerson are options as well. Nobody cares where you did your undergrad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
<abstract> Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 It is all about the odds. Statistically, for the average applicant they have about a 10% chance if you apply to a single school in ontario. HOWEVER, those are statistics. Plenty of people apply who have absolutely no chance to get in (ie: premeds who meet the minimum requirements to APPLY but not the cutoffs or those who have absolutely no ec's/volunteer hours). Taking this into account, the odds increase. If you make it to the interview stage, your odds are even greater (about 1/2 to 1/4 depending on the school). The trick is to make the system work for you: maintain at least a 3.70 gpa (minimum), get a decent mcat score, have some good ec's /volunteer experiences with leadership, maybe shadow a doctor or 2, and throw in a summer of research and presto come application time apply as many schools you can see yourself in and hope for the best. I would rather get rejected than wondering my whole life if I could have been a doctor. good luck out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattg Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Hello premed101 forums. I am a grade 12 student and will be starting my med school "process" if you can call it that...next fall 2011 at Mcmaster for science. Ok now, I understand that is is really HARD to get into medicine in Canada, but I mean is it so hard that it isn't even worth the try? Eevery university student I ask advice from laughs in my facing saying that the med school hope will disappear? WHY? ..I mean all you are applying to med school aren't you? what's with all the discouragement that I am getting from the people I asked? I understand that I have to be realistic but I mean just because something is hard doesn't mean it is impossible.... So I wanted to know the reason behind this negativity..is it because its hard to get a good GPA? I mean I was told that university is hard, but I was also told the same about elementary, middle school and high-school and in all those I adjusted just fine (at least 80s in all courses) So I just wanted to know the reality...and the story behind the negativity. Thank you in advance Who cares what people say and who cares if it's hard... reality is, it is difficult to get in, but far from impossible the reason for the negativity (i.e. the difficulty to get in) is because there are thousands of people applying for a few hundred spots, and a lot of qualified people are rejected... that is the reality... so, just make sure you're one of the few hundred.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehumanmacbook Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 I think it's a bit tougher than 1/10...especially given that there are allocated spots for people from specific areas and backgrounds (unless of course, you are from Southwestern Ontario, Northern Ontario, Francophone, and/or Aboriginal) and a growing number of applicants every year. So my question to continue the thread is that why don't most people get in then? Is the GPA, ECs, or some other factor? What does the "average" applicant look like that make the 9/10 spots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inthemaking Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 It is all about the odds. Statistically' date=' for the average applicant they have about a 10% chance if you apply to a single school in ontario. HOWEVER, those are statistics. Plenty of people apply who have absolutely no chance to get in (ie: premeds who meet the minimum requirements to APPLY but not the cutoffs or those who have absolutely no ec's/volunteer hours). Taking this into account, the odds increase. If you make it to the interview stage, your odds are even greater (about 1/2 to 1/4 depending on the school). The trick is to make the system work for you: maintain at least a 3.70 gpa (minimum), get a decent mcat score, have some good ec's /volunteer experiences with leadership, maybe shadow a doctor or 2, and throw in a summer of research and presto come application time apply as many schools you can see yourself in and hope for the best. I would rather get rejected than wondering my whole life if I could have been a doctor. good luck out there.[/quote'] Thins was my logic. Foe example Mcmaster med interviews aboyt 550 people (i think) and around 200 get in... So that means that at the interview stage you have 1/2 chance of getting in. If you apply to many med school wouldnt the chances increase? I mean it is likely to get 5+ interview and still get rejected.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBP Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 It's quite unlikely to have that many interviews and still get rejected. It's also quite rare to have that many interviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 It's stupid to ask any kid straight out of high school what they wanna be. 80% of them will say either doctor or lawyer. Very few actually do either by the time they are done 4 years of university. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inthemaking Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Who cares what people say and who cares if it's hard... reality is, it is difficult to get in, but far from impossible the reason for the negativity (i.e. the difficulty to get in) is because there are thousands of people applying for a few hundred spots, and a lot of qualified people are rejected... that is the reality... so, just make sure you're one of the few hundred.. Thanks so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattg Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 I think it's a bit tougher than 1/10...especially given that there are allocated spots for people from specific areas and backgrounds (unless of course, you are from Southwestern Ontario, Northern Ontario, Francophone, and/or Aboriginal) and a growing number of applicants every year. So my question to continue the thread is that why don't most people get in then? Is the GPA, ECs, or some other factor? What does the "average" applicant look like that make the 9/10 spots? it's not 1/10... it's closer to 1/6... in Ontario alone, in 2010 there were 5400 applicants applying for a bit over 900 spots... the odds are a bit better when you factor in OOP Canadian schools as well... also, my guess would be there is at least 1000 completely delusional applicants with zero shot... so it's not as bad, odds-wise, as people portray it to be... the only problem is that of the remaining 4000 or so competitive applicants, the majority are very impressive applicants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
<abstract> Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 http://www.afmc.ca/pdf/2011AdBk.pdf The exact statistics are in that document. As for the average applicant if we knew that i think we would all be a little more assured to see what we are up against... , It is also important to note that the statistics might be a bit skewed cause of the double cohort in 2003/2004 those students graduated university in 2008 so many of them were probably still applying until recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repede Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Thins was my logic. Foe example Mcmaster med interviews aboyt 550 people (i think) and around 200 get in... So that means that at the interview stage you have 1/2 chance of getting in. If you apply to many med school wouldnt the chances increase? I mean it is likely to get 5+ interview and still get rejected.? Yes, but that would be assuming success is based on random chance. As an analogy, in any class you can pass or fail. Although there are two outcomes, whether you pass or fail is not 50:50 - there are other factors that contribute to the result. So whether you get 1 interview or 5, it really comes down to your interview skills. And, getting more than 2-3 interviews is pretty rare! I will second the advice of being careful with choosing UofT. I'm not assuming that it's harder than other schools out there because I haven't attended any school than UofT, but I am pretty darn sure it's not the wisest choice for most people that come through the school... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curi0user Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Hello premed101 forums. I am a grade 12 student and will be starting my med school "process" if you can call it that...next fall 2011 at Mcmaster for science. Ok now, I understand that is is really HARD to get into medicine in Canada, but I mean is it so hard that it isn't even worth the try? Eevery university student I ask advice from laughs in my facing saying that the med school hope will disappear? WHY? ..I mean all you are applying to med school aren't you? what's with all the discouragement that I am getting from the people I asked? I understand that I have to be realistic but I mean just because something is hard doesn't mean it is impossible.... So I wanted to know the reason behind this negativity..is it because its hard to get a good GPA? I mean I was told that university is hard, but I was also told the same about elementary, middle school and high-school and in all those I adjusted just fine (at least 80s in all courses) So I just wanted to know the reality...and the story behind the negativity. Thank you in advance We had a med school seminar and I think it was like 3% of med school applicants actually make it in? so yeah that's why people laugh.. but clearly it's not IMPOSSIBLE just extremely hard. if this is your dream then go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattg Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 where does this 3% myth come from... it's 15-20%... unless the 3% is referring to the % of people entering undergrad with hopes of medicine who actually get in, in the end... in the case though, it just sounds like a random number (but would probably be more or less accurate)... but in terms of an Ontario applicant's statistical chance of getting into Ontario, it is 1/6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
<abstract> Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 http://www.afmc.ca/pdf/2011AdBk.pdf The exact statistics broken down for each school are in here. LOOK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inthemaking Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 where does this 3% myth come from... it's 15-20%... unless the 3% is referring to the % of people entering undergrad with hopes of medicine who actually get in, in the end... in the case though, it just sounds like a random number (but would probably be more or less accurate)... but in terms of an Ontario applicant's statistical chance of getting into Ontario, it is 1/6 Thanks for clarifying, 3% seems to be too low. 15-20% isn't that bad, considering not all applicants are stellar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehumanmacbook Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 It's stupid to ask any kid straight out of high school what they wanna be. 80% of them will say either doctor or lawyer. Very few actually do either by the time they are done 4 years of university. I agree it's quite stupid...but many of the people I know who got in and are successful are really coached about the process straight out of high school by friends or family. Those who learn about the game earlier and continue on the path, they stand the strongest chance. I personally felt lost and horrified at my GPA when I started thinking about medicine at the end of second year because there are so many rules to this "game" and I felt really late compared to some of my friends. If you don't start thinking about it earlier, the more difficult it becomes to get in later. But if you take your time, I definitely believe that you can still have a strong application! Keeping a high GPA is essential though, as well as MCAT no matter what stage you're thinking about medicine though. Remember - Victory loves Preparation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curi0user Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 where does this 3% myth come from... it's 15-20%... unless the 3% is referring to the % of people entering undergrad with hopes of medicine who actually get in, in the end... in the case though, it just sounds like a random number (but would probably be more or less accurate)... but in terms of an Ontario applicant's statistical chance of getting into Ontario, it is 1/6 i'm too lazy to find the data but I have the slide posted from the seminar, it's all ranging from 3%-10% (mcmaster = 4,733 applicants vs. 176 acceptances = 3.7% ) Makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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