Advice Please

[NeuN]

Thanks a lot guys.

[simpy]

I assume that except for year five you were carrying a full courseload? You will want to write the MCAT. If you are an Ontario resident you may have a shot at Western (who will count years 3 and 4 assuming they include 60% third year courses or above), Queen's (who will count years 6 and 7), and McMaster. You probably don't have a shot at any OOP schools (I am assuming you are in province in Ontario).

 

Without a good MCAT your options become much more limited. You could do one extra year and become eligible for Ottawa provided your GPA meets the cutoffs.

 

I don't see a second degree or master's program substantially improving your chances anywhere. Might as well do a master's, it could help at Queen's if your MCAT doesn't quite make the cut. A lot depends on that test though - with a score that makes cutoffs your chances of getting into meds are actually not that bad.

[rmorelan]

I assume that except for year five you were carrying a full courseload? You will want to write the MCAT. If you are an Ontario resident you may have a shot at Western (who will count years 3 and 4 assuming they include 60% third year courses or above), Queen's (who will count years 6 and 7), and McMaster. You probably don't have a shot at any OOP schools (I am assuming you are in province in Ontario).

 

Without a good MCAT your options become much more limited. You could do one extra year and become eligible for Ottawa provided your GPA meets the cutoffs.

 

I don't see a second degree or master's program substantially improving your chances anywhere. Might as well do a master's, it could help at Queen's if your MCAT doesn't quite make the cut. A lot depends on that test though - with a score that makes cutoffs your chances of getting into meds are actually not that bad.

 

Yeah we really need a break down of the course load each year if possible

 

For Western you need 60% of the courses each year at the corresponding grade level, so I guess we need that as well - and of course if you have done the MCAT yet You may already be high enough for Ottawa if my math is right (3.87?) but only you hit the rest of their rules about course load.

[NeuN]

hey guys thanks for your inputs. Just to clarify I am thinking of writing the MCAT after a master's or during my second degree so hopefully that will make me eligible for more schools. Also, I did full courseload until Yr 3, I did four in 4th, and 4.5 in yr 6, 5.0 in year seven. Also, in upper years (yr3 and +) 60% of my courses were at 3rd/fourth year level.

 

Simpy can you please elaborate why doing a grad/ second degree won't help much with my application?

[simpy]

hey guys thanks for your inputs. Just to clarify I am thinking of writing the MCAT after a master's or during my second degree so hopefully that will make me eligible for more schools. Also, I did full courseload until Yr 3, I did four in 4th, and 4.5 in yr 6, 5.0 in year seven. Also, in upper years (yr3 and +) 60% of my courses were at 3rd/fourth year level.

 

Simpy can you please elaborate why doing a grad/ second degree won't help much with my application?

 

So Western's out, probably Ottawa too (didn't realize they would skip years that don't count, rmorelan. In any case they would use year 7, 3, and 2 which I don't believe makes cutoffs... although they might use 4 and part of year 5, so who knows). That leaves Queen's and McMaster.

 

NeuN - the reason why a second degree or master's might not help is because of how schools look at applications. If you are in province in Ontario, with your academics you are unlikely to be competitive for any out of province schools. So that leaves the Ontario schools. Out of these, U of T is probably out because you wouldn't qualify for the GPA weighting formula. NOSM is a long shot unless you're rural. If you did a second degree or a master's not much would change at either of these schools (although a master's might help at U of T if you were very productive during it).

 

So that leaves Queen's, Western, Ottawa and McMaster. Doing a master's will not help you at Western or Ottawa, and will only slightly help at McMaster. You would need to do at least one more year of undergrad to be eligible to Ottawa. After that, the MCAT kicks in. Your GPA is not super competitive for McMaster (it's not awful either), but you would probably need to do fairly well on the MCAT VR to counteract your GPA. In either case, because you have so many years, doing a second undergrad won't substantially help at McMaster, and they don't weigh a master's very much. You would need to do a second undergrad and do well on the MCAT to get into Western. You would be eligible to apply to Queen's this year if your MCAT made cutoffs - but you would also need to pass an extracurricular/reference letter cut as well.

 

So at this point it's a bit of a tradeoff. Doing a master's might help you with Queen's and Toronto, but you will not be eligible for Western or Ottawa. Doing a second undergrad will allow you to apply to Western and Ottawa provided you met the courseload requirements, but you would not have much of a chance at Toronto.

 

I think I'd probably go for the second undergrad, to be honest - but a LOT rests on that MCAT. With a strong MCAT you may even have a chance at some state schools.

 

I should also add the caveat that your situation seems fairly complicated, and many schools have esoteric admissions criteria. So take my advice here with a grain of salt - I'm probably giving you a realistic picture of your chances, but there are people every year who get into medicine with far worse stats than yours and people who fail to get in who have far better stats. Write that MCAT though when you're ready, once you have an MCAT score you will have a much better idea of what you need to do.

[crisco7676]

Hey guys, I read the stickies on doing a graduate / second degree but I still can't make-up my mind so please bear with me.

 

I've done a whole ton of undergrad, 7 years in total. This is what happened. When I first started my undergrad I knew I wanted to become a doctor, but I didn't realize at the time how much I want to become a doctor and how difficult it is to get into med school. I basically bombed my first year, improved on my second year but didn't really do well to get into med/dent. I did okay in my third and fourth years but my GPA wasn't med school worthy.

 

Now, I have decided to pursue my true dream of becoming a physician and start all over. But I can't decide whether I should do a masters program (which I am already accepted) or do a second degree. So I am writing on the forum to listen to your advice. For my situation, what do you guys think I should do to increase my chance of acceptance into med school?

 

My stats OMSAS GPA

 

Yr 1) 2.58 (fooled around)

Yr 2) 3.56

Yr 3) 3.78

Yr 4) 3.89

Yr 5) 3.52 (2 credits and personal problems)

Yr 6) 3.87 (Non-degree)

Yr 7) 4.00 (Non-degree)

 

Should I go for a Grad or a second degree?

 

Sorry for this long post, but I've been stressing over this matter for the past three weeks and I think I'm about to go insane. Please give me sincere advice and please...... no trolling. Thanks!!!

 

Don't go to grad school unless you really want to do research. I don't think it's worth pursuing a masters or a phd if you want to use it as a mean to get into med school. Besides, if you get in before the end of your program, it won't be faire to your supervisor and ultimately yourself to have spent that time and energy towards nothing in the end. I don't know about the details of your situation, but why didn't you do a master during those last two years?

[NeuN]

Thanks for your advice guys.

 

Simpy, after you completed your undergrad what made you to pursue a second degree? With your first undergrad gpa, did you know that you would have chance at OOP schools and Ip schools if you pursue a second degree? Also, would my chances of getting acceptance still be very slim even if I do well (near 4.0) on a second degree? Is it because I have so many udergrad years?

[simpy]

Thanks for your advice guys.

 

Simpy, after you completed your undergrad what made you to pursue a second degree? With your first undergrad gpa, did you know that you would have chance at OOP schools and Ip schools if you pursue a second degree? Also, would my chances of getting acceptance still be very slim even if I do well (near 4.0) on a second degree? Is it because I have so many udergrad years?

 

After my first degree I worked for four years. Deciding to leave that career for medicine was based off of some personal experiences as well as some volunteering experiences I had.

 

To be honest, before starting my second degree I didn't know much about admissions in Canada. I figured that schools would be willing to look past poor marks in my first undergrad and focus instead on my unique path to medicine, my strong performance in my second degree, and what I viewed to be strong extracurriculars. By and large I was mistaken in this belief. Undergrad GPA reigns supreme in applying to Canadian schools and very few will look beyond past mistakes.

 

You are in a similar situation to what I was in even though my GPA was far worse than yours. From my calculations, your cGPA is a 3.6. With your worst year dropped it's a 3.8. Realistically, that is a little too low for many schools in Canada (because you are IP in Ontario - if you were IP in almost any other province you would actually be in better shape).

 

A second degree wouldn't help you at many schools (i.e. UBC, U of T) because it wouldn't boost your marks that much - getting a 4.0 in two years of a second degree would take your cGPA from a 3.6 to a 3.7. This is still too low for many schools. It would help you at McMaster, but not by a whole lot.

 

Where it would help you is at Western and Ottawa. Realistically, your best chances to get into medicine are Queen's, Western, Ottawa, and McMaster (you should certainly apply more broadly, but your best chances are at the four schools I just mentioned). I would focus on those schools. The MCAT is important because it will essentially determine your eligibility for Queen's, Western, and to a lesser degree McMaster.

 

I wouldn't say your chances of getting into medicine are slim. If you have strong ECs and score well on the MCAT, I think you actually have quite a good chance of getting in.

[rmorelan]

Thanks for your advice guys.

 

Simpy, after you completed your undergrad what made you to pursue a second degree? With your first undergrad gpa, did you know that you would have chance at OOP schools and Ip schools if you pursue a second degree? Also, would my chances of getting acceptance still be very slim even if I do well (near 4.0) on a second degree? Is it because I have so many udergrad years?

 

any problems you have is simply because your cumulative GPA would be low or you don't have the structure of your courses such that the set up works for schools. You just aren't hitting 5.0 credits per year for the schools that need it right now, for some key schools (a quick 2 year new degree which is often quite possible with someone with a lot of credits) could fix that. Clearly you have the ability GPA wise!

[lala.lahori]

How about spending a year in alberta and work. prepare for your mcat and give it next summer. Once you have a year there u will be considered IP and then can do a one year masters that will help you at queens? what do you guys think?

Also do all schools consider non degre courses (except western which has special year)

[NeuN]

Thanks so much for all your inputs guys- i really appreciate it.

 

I did some searching in non-tradit forum and noticed that some people think being an IP in Alberta would improve their chances. Why is that? Is there a whole lot advantage given to IP and if so what is it?

 

I know University of Calgary has initial review of OP applicants but I couldn't really find the formula that the adcoms use to rank OP applicants. I'm not sure if UA has similar thing going as well.

 

Thanks for the feedback guys!!

[rmorelan]

Thanks so much for all your inputs guys- i really appreciate it.

 

I did some searching in non-tradit forum and noticed that some people think being an IP in Alberta would improve their chances. Why is that? Is there a whole lot advantage given to IP and if so what is it?

 

I know University of Calgary has initial review of OP applicants but I couldn't really find the formula that the adcoms use to rank OP applicants. I'm not sure if UA has similar thing going as well.

 

Thanks for the feedback guys!!

 

applicant acceptance rate for IP in Alberta is 40% comapred to 20% in Ontario. That kind of difference makes people take notice

[Elaina Walker]

Actually an IP Learning Pathway better prepares health science students for an ever changing health care system where IP collaboration and teamwork is required to address:

· Workforce demands for workforce-ready graduates with the skills to meet increasingly complex patient needs, changing practice technology, diverse practice settings and increased professional specialization

· The need for a more efficient health care system to meet increasing patient needs, economic and human resource pressures

 

These are the reasons why people prefers the graduates from IP pathways.

[future_doc]

^ nonsense

[mr.o]

Please excuse my ignorance but what does IP stand for?

[covarubious]

Please excuse my ignorance but what does IP stand for?

 

In Province. Every province except Ontario reserves a majority of the seats in their school for people from their own province. In these schools you are competeing with people from your province, smaller number of people = better chances and usually somewhat lower requirements.