Guest Raven Posted April 27, 2002 Report Share Posted April 27, 2002 Does anyone know of any native students either in med school now or considering applying? Please respond to the list or email direct. I'm a native person considering applying and I'm 36. This may hurt. With rural areas and reserves up north being drastically underserviced by docs does any one know of any 'special consideration' given to aboriginal applicants? Raven cachagee@onlink.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tutifruiti Posted April 27, 2002 Report Share Posted April 27, 2002 Hello Raven, At U Ottawa, I believe aboriginal students are considered with the same requirements than Francophones (> 3.3/4.0). There's no other exceptions, a minimum of 3 year undergrad is still required, no MCAT. So if medicine really attracts you, then apply! good luck! (o: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest missing Manitoba Posted April 27, 2002 Report Share Posted April 27, 2002 Hi Raven, I'm non-native; however, I'm killing time until I start my summer job next week, so I did some research. From what I gather, several of the Canadian med schools offer some sort of "special consideration" for aboriginal applicants. *I think* Alberta offers "over-quota" positions specifically for native applicants. (According to the U of A stats, 3 students were accepted last year in the "overquota -- aboriginal" category.) Their site gives a contact address/email address for native people interested in applying. For aboriginal applicants to the University of Calgary, all, regardless of province of residence, are required to meet their *in-province* requirements. (best two full years GPA 3.00/4.00, plus MCATs) Queen's considers native applicants separately: meds.queensu.ca/medicine/...icies.html Toronto's MD admissions website gives a couple of phone numbers for aboriginal applicants but doesn't give any more information than that. Manitoba includes *Manitoba* natives in their "special consideration" category (info on the website). Similarly, Saskatchewan's program, which has a separate pool for aboriginal applicants, applies only to residents of Saskatchewan. The McMaster site mentions aboriginal applicants...but I got confused. :\ I think you have to be a resident of Ontario, but I'm not sure. I hope this helped, and best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dana Posted April 27, 2002 Report Share Posted April 27, 2002 Hi Raven, I am metis and 26 years old and will be applying to U of C, U of T, and Queens this fall. I know U of C encourages aboriginal students to apply and only requires an in-province GPA for OOP students. At U of T, they have a native students centre you can contact and I haven't explored the Queens website on this issue yet. My focus has been on my GPA and on studying for the MCAT this summer. I wish to be competitive with other applicants (Aboriginal and non-aboriginal) because I'm not sure what a policy of "encouraging" aboriginal students to apply, actually translates to in real terms. I don't believe your age is an issue at all, so don't worry about that. To be honest I'm not sure how being metis will effect my application. If you look on the http://www.naaf.ca website (they offer aboriginal scholarships), you will notice that a large number of the recipients are med students, so that is nice to see and a good resource to keep in mind. Also check out http://www.ccab-canada.com and click on FAAY, for more aboriginal scholarships. Good luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raven Posted April 27, 2002 Report Share Posted April 27, 2002 Missing Manitoba you've been most helpful. I have been in contact with U of Man and they only consider Man. residents as you have stated. U of T has one spot for natives assuming they have a high GPA. The MCAT is still required and autobio, refs and interview are also important. The info on Calgary and the Ontario med schools is also helpful. I'll check it out. I live in Ontario. I've had to work hard to get where I am in my career and have felt tremendous discrimination for the jobs that I've had with the gov't. I'm worried I'd be under the same gun if I were accepted in meds. I'd be worried about the feelings of my peers. But I do have look out for myself. Likely they won't want to work in the same areas as a doc that I would. My concern is my GPA isn't that hot and I graduated from my undergrad in 1990. So I'm 36 and have had an exciting career as a Conservation Officer for the past 12 years, the last 6 of which has been in the K9 unit. I have the best job in the world but its just not challenging enough for me. I'm unsure if I could handle the rigours of med school. I had to work hard for my marks at the U of Guelph etc. etc. I've felt that medicine has always been my calling and I'm just looking into its feasibility at my age and given my background. Of course, like most of you I'm absolutely terrified about preparing for and tacking the MCAT :eek . I've been going over my 1st year chem and physics texts while waiting for some MCAT prep material to arrive and its been almost giving me the dry heaves trying to learn all this stuff again. No doubt I can focus my time on the core concepts from MCAT prep exams. I also live 8 hours north of Toronto so a Kaplan prep course is out of the question, maybe online or not at all. Where are you at in your med book learnin' ? Any more insight would be helpful. Thanks again Raven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raven Posted April 27, 2002 Report Share Posted April 27, 2002 Dana, could you please email me directly. I'd like to pick your brain on the topic? Thanks cachagee@onlink.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carolyn Posted April 27, 2002 Report Share Posted April 27, 2002 You should definitely give them a call at Mac - I think there may be a new policy coming in regarding opening up more spaces for aboriginal students. Take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raven Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 Thanks Carolyn I'll do that. I visited their admissions office 3 years ago and it was a not go then. Things must have changed for a special consideration category at Mac since then. Thanks again Raven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest not rex morgan Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 Hey Raven. In our class this year, there was only one person who identified him/herself as having native heritage. From what I understand, however, UBC does encourage native applicants. I believe there is a certain standard to be met, as with every other applicant, but after that, your unique background and cultural exposure would really make you stand out amongst the rest of the applicants. I know there are students in upper years who identify as native. I can think of two right now that are older than average (I won't dare to estimate), and they are both moms. I know you mentioned that you are 36, and I don't think that has been addressed. There is a 35-year-old member of our class. (of course the average age is 23, and we have an 18-year-old). I don't think age is explicitly an inhibitory factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tutor Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 I believe that Mac is introducing some reserved spots for natives. But as a whole med schools have not been very supportive of trying to get a representative demographic reflecting canada. Law schools have really excelled in this area, letting in alot of native and underprivelaged applicants who do not meet the published minimum requirements (some even wothout undergrad degrees). Med schools up until now have focused on their traditional wealthy family (>100,000 income) white suburbia applicants. Hopefully things will change so that all areas such as Regent Park and northern Aboriginal communities can finally get some docs interested in helping the ENTIRE cdn population. Lets face it, rich white kids arent going to want to touch people who are "poor" or who didn't get their injuries snowboarding or playing golf at the country club etc..... Hopefully the new reforms aren't just window dressing to ease public pressure from underserviced Canadians who cant seem to break the Med school prejudice. tutor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EB Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 From Tutor's last post: "Lets face it, rich white kids arent going to want to touch people who are "poor" or who didn't get their injuries snowboarding or playing golf at the country club etc....." Were you TRYING to be offensive when you wrote that? I can't be the only one who is a little disgusted from what you're insinuating... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tutor Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 Sorry not offensive intentions eb but the truth is someone with an upper class background is not going to open a clinic to help HIV patients in a less than savoury area. They would rather start private practice in the neighborhood from which they originate. These are not my thoughts, this is the reality of the growth of the availability of medical health professionals. Of all medical school students interveiwed two years ago regarding choice of practice area by the OMA, an astounding 90% said they would locate in an area containing a population within their own socioeconomic class. Now couple that with the fact that the majority of medical students come from families where family income exceeds $100,000 (again from the OMA and individual med school surveys) and you can see that the affluent have no problem accessing health care yet the poor are left to dry. Let me guess EB, are you from a well to do family? Are you in med school are you offended or ashamed by the thought that you may only want to work with people similar to people your family has over for dinner? I know I was! I found most of this info out in my health policy course and it kind of shocked me. I come from a upper middle class family and frankly I see the attitude my friends in med school have. They are all fighting for Opth or plastics residencies in order to fork in the bank roll obviously without a second thought about the humanitarian implications their trade can have on Canadian society. When I interviewed (for my research paper) them and several of their classmates about their views on treating the poor or natives, I got repsonses like "hell no I didn't waste all that time in school to hang out on skid row!" or "well I would rather help people who contribute the most tax dollars to the system because they ultimately pay our salary, why help those that dont even pay taxes....they are just taking from the system. My favourite response was "the natives have weird problems that we are not taught about specifically in med school." Its really sad for all of the demographic groups. I think med schools should forget about interviews hovering around years in ballet training but the background of the applicants and a promise to serve certain communities. They have tried to get these rich kids to go up north (tuition reimbursements, practice set up fees paid for etc) yet the success rate has been less than 2% accepting the offer....but ask any student about tuition fees and they will bitch for 2hrs. You see what incentive is their for someone to go up north when the family income of 100,000+ will easily aid in paying back loans etc. Again, I come from an upper class background and I have really had to rethink the way I see things thanks to my Health policy courses that dive deeply into the physician's role in society and current trends in their attitude and the contributory implications it is having on the health care crisis in Canada. Sorry about the snowboard comment. I just remember a med student saying too me, he would rather deal with patients that give him snowboarding tips rather than how to perform native ritual chants. I didnt really like the comment, again I apologize it was out of context. Tutor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TimmyMax Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 Hey Raven! You mentioned you lived 8 hours north of Toronto- just curious- where exactly is that??? Thanks. Best of luck, Timmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RAK2005 Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 Tutor, "They are all fighting for Opth or plastics residencies in order to fork in the bank roll obviously without a second thought about the humanitarian implications their trade can have on Canadian society" Those are pretty sweeping implications, and really do not reflect the MAJORITY of medical school students. I am fairly certain that there are portions of the class that consider income as the primary motivator in choosing a residency, but these students make up a realtively small number (At least here at Queen's anyway). As for wanting to live/practice in an area that is similar to where you grew up, that is a pretty natural instinct in ANY profession ! The impact of where you locate is huge and affects your spouse, family and kids. I think graduating med students that gave that little thought would regret their choices in the future. Finally, MOST physicians that will work in family or hospital based specialties will see a WIDE group of people from all over the socioeconomic board. Physicians do not pick their clients based on the size of their wallets, but rather the nature of their illness. Anyways, back to snowboarding... just kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EB Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 Tutor, Actually no. My family income (including mine, my father's and my mother's) was under $30, 000 this year... and has been for a long time... I was really offended by that comment because I work with native youth and I hear things like that all the time from them... It astounds me that they seem to dislike me based on my skin color, yet they're willing to take all the time I can give them when it comes to helping with homework and giving them opportunities like seeing the local museum, zoo, etc... Like any other race, I don't like to hear unflattering stereotypes about my own culture. No, I'm not in medicine yet... And when I do get in, I will most likely practice in the area I grew up. It just so happens that I live in a very ethnicly diverse area of Edmonton and if I stayed here most of my patients would NOT be caucasian... I just wanted to point out that your stereotype is not 100% correct... although I'm not planning to be a doctor on a reserve, I certainly am not planning to exclude aboriginal people (or anyone else) from my services in the future... ... and don't assume that all native physicians plan on working in underserviced areas... a good friend of mine is metis, and when she gets into med she's not planning on starting a practice in remote areas... like most people, she dreams of living in a nice home in an urban city! Although her family expects her to work on reserves, she has her own plans about where her life will take her.... So, I really think that making assumptions about how a person will practice medicine based on their heritage isn't a good idea... No hard feelings, EB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raven526 Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 Timmy I live in Timmins. Raven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 Just wanted to point out that I know of at least one native med student here at Western, and UWO has reserved 3 spots this year for deserving native applicants (for the record, if those spots aren't filled they will revert back to the overall pool.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raven526 Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 Would it be possible for you to either pass on my email address or get their's for me? Raven cachagee@onlink.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tutor Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 Hey EB No hard feelings, Sorry I didn't mean to implicate stereotypes, just get some people thinking as my prof had for our class that was largely (including myself) from a upper middle class white background. Sometimes if you bring out a few dicey facts its pushes thoughts on issues that perhaps are not explored fully (ie will increasing med school spots really help the health care crisis or just saturate urban areas with more doctors?) Eb I hope the best for you in your career persuits, BTW did you apply this year, if so how are things going? Good Luck once again Tutor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 I think it should be okay. . . I'll have to talk about it with them first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 I'll try passing your e-mail address along. . . I'd rather not post her e-mail address online. It could take some time though, the student I'm thinking of is in the year ahead of me so I don't see her often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raven526 Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 I completely understand not posting anyone's emial address. Thanks Raven cachagee@onlink.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest missing Manitoba Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 Hi Raven, No problem! I haven't actually done any med book learnin' -- I just finished my undergrad degree on Friday. As far as marks go, a couple of schools will look at your best 2 or 3 years (as long as they involved a full courseload), rather than your whole academic record. If, under these conditions, your GPA still falls below the cutoffs, it might be possible to do a second degree to present a higher GPA. Some of the other applicants could undoubtedly provide you with some useful information about this. For the MCATs, I would suggest doing a practice test right away to see how you find it. Some people seem to struggle with the format of the test itself, even if they have studied the material, while others just need to learn the relevant material through self-study and apply it at test time. Doing a practice test should give you an indication of which category you fit into. If you're struggling with questions on material you're familiar with, a course might be a good idea since it might teach you how to approach the questions. (I've never taken one, so I'm not sure.) If, however, you're comfortable with the way the questions are asked and confident that you can make yourself sit down and review/learn the necessary material, the course might not be needed. Have you taken organic chemistry? This might be a difficult subject to self-teach, particularly several years after taking general chem. There are a couple of older applicants floating around this board and Delphi who might be able to provide you with the pros/cons of taking/not taking an MCAT course after being out of school for a number of years. As someone mentioned, you should definitely check out Mac and see if it's within the realm of possibility. They seem to like "non-traditional" applicants, particularly those who've gained the skills inherent in being part of the workforce for a number of years. I believe Calgary students might tend to be slightly older on average, as well. Again, I wish you the best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raven526 Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 Dear missing, First off congrats on completing your undergrad. Where and what did you study? What a load off eh? You're half way there I'm in a tough spot. I do have 1 semester of organic chem but in my 2nd year I dropped a pre-vet chem that I couldn't handle. So my 1st year was a full load but I have 5 semesters where I only had 4 courses rather than 5. Mac may be my only option. Although my marks climbed every year they weren't too hot. thanks Raven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest missing Manitoba Posted April 28, 2002 Report Share Posted April 28, 2002 Hi Raven, Thanks! I just finished an honours degree in chem with a subject of specialization in biomolecular chemistry at Queen's -- which is a fancy way of saying I took a lot of boring classes. It feels VERY good to be finished. As far as your courseload/marks go, try contacting each school and asking for suggestions. Many of the schools seem to be VERY interested in having aboriginal applicants, so they'll probably be willing to provide advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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