aspiring97 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 To get into U of T, I want to publish a paper in a medical journal before hand. This is to, firstly, give me an upper hand when applying, and two, as I will have some experience, I'll know how to go about writing a better and more experienced one in University. So, I really would love some help on how to write a paper that is good enough to go into a medical paper, and how to get it published in there. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuma Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 The key thing is...you need to have something to publish. That is, something novel to contribute to the field. This typically involves having done some kind of research. In addition, you will need credentials and an academic affiliation. As it seems you are not yet in a university program, all of the above are going to be challenges for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comeon Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Find a professor whose lab you can work in and does research in the field you are interested in. My personal aspiration: I would like to rassle with an alligator, tussle with a whale, handcuff lightning, and throw thunder in jail - it would make me a real bad man....but I must become Muhammad Ali first. These things take time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRolland Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 To get into U of T, I want to publish a paper in a medical journal before hand. This is to, firstly, give me an upper hand when applying, and two, as I will have some experience, I'll know how to go about writing a better and more experienced one in University.So, I really would love some help on how to write a paper that is good enough to go into a medical paper, and how to get it published in there. Thanks! Get a pHD in a scientific or medical field, get a research grant, do your research, and publish your paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 University student-run journals are a good starting place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morzan Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 University student-run journals are a good starting place. Whoa, what was that? Can you elaborate on this ambiguous concept of 'student-run journal'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Whoa, what was that? Can you elaborate on this ambiguous concept of 'student-run journal'? I don't know if you're trolling or just using awkward syntax... He's talking about something like this: http://communications.uwo.ca/com/western_news/stories/new_journal_to_publish_undergrad_research___20090924444861/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morzan Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I don't know if you're trolling or just using awkward syntax... He's talking about something like this: http://communications.uwo.ca/com/western_news/stories/new_journal_to_publish_undergrad_research___20090924444861/ Writing was never my strongest-est subject. Thanks for the link, pop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osteon Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 To get into U of T, I want to publish a paper in a medical journal before hand. This is to, firstly, give me an upper hand when applying, and two, as I will have some experience, I'll know how to go about writing a better and more experienced one in University.So, I really would love some help on how to write a paper that is good enough to go into a medical paper, and how to get it published in there. Thanks! This makes me think you are in high school. If so, then there's just no way you'll publish anything for a while. If you're in university, then the only way to publish is to have some data that's useful to the research (or in your case, medical) community. You don't get that on your own, and a volunteer position likely won't get you one either. Do a 4th year thesis and get a summer NSERC to have a real chance at getting a paper in before MD applications as an undergrad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bored Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 I don't know if you're trolling or just using awkward syntax... He's talking about something like this: http://communications.uwo.ca/com/western_news/stories/new_journal_to_publish_undergrad_research___20090924444861/ wow I had no idea such a thing existed.. bloody premeds.. just making my life a little bit harder (i guess im one of them) are there more of those things that crafty premeds have crafted....? ps: can anyone upload articles or just premeds of uwo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 are there more of those things that crafty premeds have crafted....? http://frank.mtsu.edu/~hcevents/journals.html Many such journals cater to undergraduates - not just premeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bored Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 http://frank.mtsu.edu/~hcevents/journals.html Many such journals cater to undergraduates - not just premeds. Ok I'm gonna write myself a quick review article this winter break Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehumanmacbook Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Ok I'm gonna write myself a quick review article this winter break Sure it's nice to "publish" something but they will know from your ABS that it was in a student journal...and I think they are cognizant of the difference between that and an academic journal of sorts. I would recommend trying to do both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Yeah, this really true, except for one guy I know who's in second year med and has 30+ publications (he lives in the lab and has done nothing else besides studying and lab work ever since 2nd year undergrad. I think he'll win a nobel prize or something, but he's not the norm. I know another guy who joined a neuropsych lab in first year undergrad (the professor was brand new and a bit out there), and he's doing a phd now in the same lab, it took him 3 years in the lab to start consistently putting out publications. These guys are huge outliers, Osteon has a much more accurate perspective for the average person, plus, scientific writing isn't necessarily good writing, it's just a style of writing, that's rather insipid imo, but it's standardized in some disciplines to facilitate the exchange of ideas in a better and more clear fashion. If you want a publication quick (as in maybe between your second and third year at the earliest), apply for summer research and offer to volunteer in a lab beforehand, plus the thesis and you'll have a solid shot. Behavioural sciences is the easiest to publish in, especially review articles and research in social/cultural psychology, maybe psychology/qualitative research related to medicine about outcomes, opinions etc... it's way less dependent on the physical process of the results (your pcr screwing up, wasting a bunch of time), if you can get subjects, you have results, period. there's also no lag in learning all the lab skills you need for data, although you have to learn your stats and research methods in and out (this can be done on your own time, before you start lab work). plus, no matter what results you get, you can come to a conclusion that seems plausible, especially if you're good with your stats and SPSS (my best friend, I can make anything seem true statistically, hehe). Don't expect to publish anything until between 3rd and 4th year though, if you're a keener! Also, lots of profs will let you write a review mostly for them and take first authorship, and give you second... you get your stuff published, and they get a free publication, a win win, you just have to find the less morally scrupulous professors. This makes me think you are in high school. If so, then there's just no way you'll publish anything for a while. If you're in university, then the only way to publish is to have some data that's useful to the research (or in your case, medical) community. You don't get that on your own, and a volunteer position likely won't get you one either. Do a 4th year thesis and get a summer NSERC to have a real chance at getting a paper in before MD applications as an undergrad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 writing a good review article takes awhile (depending on the topic), and you'll have it sent back to you with revisions, the process isn't quick and actually requires a lot of patiences... also unless you're in a lab, it's hard to get your paper in the door. i use to do all the writing for one of the labs i worked in (and very little of actual hands on research) and it's far more difficult than you think, and that's just the writing, forget the concussions you come up with, or research you may have missed, oi. plus, the papers would have never been read if my p.i. didn't send it, there is a barrier, unfortunately. edit: nvm, i didn't see that you meant undergrad-catering journals, that may be a different story. Ok I'm gonna write myself a quick review article this winter break Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charmer08 Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 writing a good review article takes awhile (depending on the topic), and you'll have it sent back to you with revisions, the process isn't quick and actually requires a lot of patiences... also unless you're in a lab, it's hard to get your paper in the door. i use to do all the writing for one of the labs i worked in (and very little of actual hands on research) and it's far more difficult than you think, and that's just the writing, forget the concussions you come up with, or research you may have missed, oi. plus, the papers would have never been read if my p.i. didn't send it, there is a barrier, unfortunately. edit: nvm, i didn't see that you meant undergrad-catering journals, that may be a different story. lol you type a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 it seems like it, but i think as fast as i speak almost (and often an idea has a thought cluster with algorithmized speech patterns so often i can speak faster than i can think, with little cognitive resources, giving me thinking time as a type or speak, and the resulting snowball effect of rapid synthesis, so it doesn't take very long to rattle a few hundred words of bs off... lol you type a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aspiring97 Posted December 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Aha, so I guess I won't be publishing in a real journal for a few years, but I can try looking for student-run journals. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewfieMike Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 case reports are such a farce. 23 year old male presented with sneezing, runny nose, and headache. Prescribed nighttime tablets, recommended sleep and chicken noodle soup. Funny that some people think # of publications = greater publications. This tends to be the general consensus in medicine, as I have observed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leap87 Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 Most research is garbage. All case reports are garbage. The academic establishment is full of chest-pounding narcissists whose senses of self worth are dictated by how many pages are in their CVs. Needless to say, once i'm done of this sweatshop that is residency, I'm staying far far far far far far far away from research and research types. It takes a special kind of antisocial personality to thrive in research. Hmmmm... I'd be careful not to generalize. Edit: I would say that some reviews out there are such a farce (ex. Like the ones most recently published on low back pain in epidemiology journals...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 I don't know about that, I've been volunteering in the same lab for over 2 years now, and expect that I'll have a couple of papers from there by the end of the summer. It depends on the lab though, you can't get publication credit for doing scut work. I actually think it would be harder to publish as a summer student. And I don't think it's realistic to publish your thesis before applications are due, especially in the social sciences. Maybe by spring of the following year. Come interview time you'll probably have a good idea of whether or not its going to get published. Then you just mention that you have a paper in the process of publication. I think as a summer student you have a MUCH better chance getting published. Chances are the prof will keep you throughout the academic year as well so you're getting paid. If you're getting paid, you're probably not doing scut. 2 years of paid lab work is a hell of a lot better than 2 years volunteering. You're comparing apples and oranges if you count being a summer student as simply a 4 month stint and then trying to compare it with 2 years of volunteering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerroger Posted December 16, 2011 Report Share Posted December 16, 2011 As someone with publications prior to med school and now going into CaRMS interviews with a research focus I have had to think about publications in the context of placing it on a CV. My two cents is this... Research where you don't do much "research", such has database entry or other excel spread sheet monkey work is pretty limited in value. I have done this type of research. Even if it gets your name on a paper you won't have much to say about it when you are asked questions within an interview setting. Sure it is better than nothing, but it is not super high yield. I remember interviewing med school applicants who clearly did this type of research... Sure it is research, but the valuable critical thinking aspect can be pretty much absent and it is obvious. In some ways one can be better off doing research where you got to develop methodology, carry it out, collect results and so on. Even if this research is not published you will have much more to say about it. You probably will be more passionate about it as well. The highest yield is getting this type of research published. In more ways you will own it and be able to show it. Much better for your own development and for chatting about in an interview setting. Win-win situation really. In my undergrad BMSc days I found a good place to look for these opportunities was in young labs. You want to look for the new prof with little lab staff. He will be looking to publish stuff readily and there will be less competition around for opportunities. Once in medical school it is just a matter of shopping around and finding a good mentor. There are opportunities everywhere for those who are proactive and looking around. But try if you can to avoid the easy "lab monkey" publication if alternatively you can spend a bit more time and generate something more meaningful to you and hopefully others. In doing so it will serve you and others better over the long term both within and outside your CV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 EDIT: I should probably ask what area you are in? In psych, they will hire people and literally just have them run participants and enter data. I'm doing my 4th year Phys (Hons) at Western. It might just be the center i'm at (centre for brain and mind) it seems like a lot of the paid UG students get a substantial amount of responsibility as far as projects go. The center itself is heavily dedicated to psych/neuroscience research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedPen Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 Research where you don't do much "research", such has database entry or other excel spread sheet monkey work is pretty limited in value. I have done this type of research. Even if it gets your name on a paper you won't have much to say about it when you are asked questions within an interview setting. Sure it is better than nothing, but it is not super high yield. I remember interviewing med school applicants who clearly did this type of research... Sure it is research, but the valuable critical thinking aspect can be pretty much absent and it is obvious. I don't agree with what you're saying here. If the only thing you're doing is imputing data into a spreadsheet, then yes, it is monkey work and not very valuable. However, you can do this type of research and get a lot out of it if you design the study, choose the statistical tests that have to be done, write the paper etc. It's not because it's not wet lab work that it doesn't require any thinking. Also, wet lab work can also be "monkey work" if someone just gives you a list of things to do. I've seen that also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehumanmacbook Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 I don't agree with what you're saying here. If the only thing you're doing is imputing data into a spreadsheet, then yes, it is monkey work and not very valuable. However, you can do this type of research and get a lot out of it if you design the study, choose the statistical tests that have to be done, write the paper etc. It's not because it's not wet lab work that it doesn't require any thinking. Also, wet lab work can also be "monkey work" if someone just gives you a list of things to do. I've seen that also. I'm not sure... I think RogerRoger included these thoughts in his sentiments. It's never monkey work if it's your project...it is though if you're running basic tests for someone else's paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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