Publishing In A Journal

[obi]

I don't agree with what you're saying here. If the only thing you're doing is imputing data into a spreadsheet, then yes, it is monkey work and not very valuable. However, you can do this type of research and get a lot out of it if you design the study, choose the statistical tests that have to be done, write the paper etc. It's not because it's not wet lab work that it doesn't require any thinking.

 

Also, wet lab work can also be "monkey work" if someone just gives you a list of things to do. I've seen that also.

 

What you described is basically having your own project or at least having a significant role within someone elses. I do, however, agree with your opinion of monkey-work being valuable. If you're driven enough you can do the background reading on the project you're working on, and if you understand the analysis and the aims etc.. actually sitting down and writing the paper is meaningless in terms of what you've "gained".

 

Even if someone else does the actual problem solving, if you interact with your prof and talk to them about the problems in the project you can learn a great deal by analyzing their solution and working backwards to see why that was a good idea. <-- Big learning experience and you're still only crunching numbers.

[leap87]

I don't see a point in doing research just for the sake of doing it or putting it on your CV. Every student I've supervised has come out of the project loving research because I try my best to show both sides of the research world, the good and the bad, but I also want to ignite that "fire" and passion. Honestly, I piss off most of my students... I make them angry about the topic or research we're doing. I make them question every aspect of it. So even though they became volunteers or took on a paid research position for the sake of just doing it, they end up with brilliant ideas which some of them end up testing... Or they end up with publications, conference posters/presentations. In fact, I don't remember one student of mine that did not end up getting something out of their research position, whether it be paid or volunteer. Or to say it differently: if I see that one of my students is putting in a lot of time, work and effort into the project, I reward them. It's very simple (or so I think). BUT I do know labs where volunteers get under appreciated and that's a shame.

 

I think I look at volunteer work and paid work as the exact same thing, except to be paid, you have to do slightly more research than a volunteer.

[apache]

you obviously haven't met psychology researchers, we know half our **** is bs, half the profs are stoners, some skateboard to work, others bring their pets, there's always a fridge full of beer in one lab, one plays drums in the lab... the guys in palaeontology though... they take themselves a bit too seriously... i guess i would too if i was a 40 year old virgin with a skullet...

 

Most research is garbage. All case reports are garbage. The academic establishment is full of chest-pounding narcissists whose senses of self worth are dictated by how many pages are in their CVs.

 

Needless to say, once i'm done of this sweatshop that is residency, I'm staying far far far far far far far away from research and research types. It takes a special kind of antisocial personality to thrive in research.

[apache]

this is really true, in labs with a first or second year assistant prof you might get a bunch of cool stuff to do since they haven't assembled an army of grad students yet

 

In my undergrad BMSc days I found a good place to look for these opportunities was in young labs. You want to look for the new prof with little lab staff. He will be looking to publish stuff readily and there will be less competition around for opportunities.

[moo]

I would advise all premeds to get involved in epidemiological research and clinical research if you can.

 

Research in a lab is NOT medical research. It is important work, for sure, but unless you are gunning for MD/PhD (MSTP) it will not be useful for you as a clinician.

[aaronjw]

I would advise all premeds to get involved in epidemiological research and clinical research if you can.

 

Research in a lab is NOT medical research. It is important work, for sure, but unless you are gunning for MD/PhD (MSTP) it will not be useful for you as a clinician.

 

This. Epidemiology is incredibly interesting and offers a great deal of value!

[thehumanmacbook]

I would advise all premeds to get involved in epidemiological research and clinical research if you can.

 

Research in a lab is NOT medical research. It is important work, for sure, but unless you are gunning for MD/PhD (MSTP) it will not be useful for you as a clinician.

 

MD/PhD - although the majority are in some sort of basic science research, is there a possibility that you can get a PhD in perhaps education? Or is that very unlikely/not allowed.

[moo]

MD/PhD - although the majority are in some sort of basic science research, is there a possibility that you can get a PhD in perhaps education? Or is that very unlikely/not allowed.

 

Most MD/PhD programs are quite flexible. Several at UBC I think are doing their PhD in epidemiology. When I was in the US, some did their PhD in ethics (philosophy), and other humanities type fields too. It doesn't have to be basic science. In fact, I think, unless you're doing path or med micro, a PhD in a basic science isn't all too useful, unless you really really want to straddle the clinical and basic science world. In the end, being a clinician is not the same as being a basic scientist. I try to drill this into the premeds that I meet, but they always feel knowing biochem, physiology, etc. down cold is essential to being a good doctor which is not the case for the majority of fields in medicine.

[thehumanmacbook]

Most MD/PhD programs are quite flexible. Several at UBC I think are doing their PhD in epidemiology. When I was in the US, some did their PhD in ethics (philosophy), and other humanities type fields too. It doesn't have to be basic science. In fact, I think, unless you're doing path or med micro, a PhD in a basic science isn't all too useful, unless you really really want to straddle the clinical and basic science world. In the end, being a clinician is not the same as being a basic scientist. I try to drill this into the premeds that I meet, but they always feel knowing biochem, physiology, etc. down cold is essential to being a good doctor which is not the case for the majority of fields in medicine.

 

Thanks for the advice Moo. I like to read up on the MD/PhD candidate profiles, and it's interesting how everyone at U of T is doing basic science research and sometimes I wonder about applicability to their field of practice...

 

Perhaps running a research lab and being in practice as well is the best of both worlds. And as osteon has pointed out before, it's how much time they allocate for each one has its own sort of flexibility. But it's nice to know that there is hope for a non-basic science PhD applicant

[Lactic Folly]

MD/PhD - although the majority are in some sort of basic science research, is there a possibility that you can get a PhD in perhaps education? Or is that very unlikely/not allowed.

 

I've seen this. Check out the Wilson Centre in Toronto.

[rogerroger]

I try to drill this into the premeds that I meet, but they always feel knowing biochem, physiology, etc. down cold is essential to being a good doctor which is not the case for the majority of fields in medicine.

 

Yup, I was surprisingly uncomfortable coming to terms will how little practicality the physiology/biochem held in day to day clinical work. Embarrassingly, it was actually a shocker for me as I have progressed through medical school. Especially in the first two years.

 

Now with only a few more months left and looking back at the past eight years I must admit I find it kinda depressing that so much time was spent on physiology type minutia and detail at the possible expense of the larger picture. Not saying the other stuff is useless, but I gave grown to get the sense that the big picture is medicine. Seeing that big picture requires just as much if not more intellectual effort IMHO. I think I would have divided my time up differently in hindsight.