Grad students are encouraged to look into MD/PhD???

[dreamformed]

Hi everyone,

 

I am a graduate student and I have been looking through the graduate applicant policies etc for the various med schools. I noticed that a lot of schools state that "Students currently enrolled in a masters program are encouraged to make inquires about MD/PhD program". What if one does not want to continue doing a PhD? Is it likely for them to ask (maybe during the interview) why you chose to only apply to the MD program and not to the MD/PhD program? I notice that a lot of graduate students have been admitted into various med schools in Canada but is there any issue of having to justify your choice of not continuing with a PhD? I would like to hear from graduate students who have done a masters degree and have gone through the process.

 

Thanks!

[Diceroll2011]

There's no need to feel obligated to MD/PhD.

 

Graduate students make good candidates (which is what they are referring to) as they have been through a research degree.

[RiceWine]

Hi everyone,

 

I am a graduate student and I have been looking through the graduate applicant policies etc for the various med schools. I noticed that a lot of schools state that "Students currently enrolled in a masters program are encouraged to make inquires about MD/PhD program". What if one does not want to continue doing a PhD? Is it likely for them to ask (maybe during the interview) why you chose to only apply to the MD program and not to the MD/PhD program? I notice that a lot of graduate students have been admitted into various med schools in Canada but is there any issue of having to justify your choice of not continuing with a PhD? I would like to hear from graduate students who have done a masters degree and have gone through the process.

 

Thanks!

 

I think as a graduate student applying for med school, you are very flexible in terms of what you want to do. Maybe by the end, you decided research is no longer of your interest. Maybe you want to continue your PhD during residency. These are just some of the paths you may want to take.

[dreamformed]

Thank you for the input.

 

I understand that having a masters can lead to a lot of flexibility down the road and such applicants are good candidates for many things (this was actually one of the reasons I decided to do a masters). I was just wondering what if the question comes up on why do you want to make a switch to medicine (clinical) after having done a masters in basic sciences? Why not continue on with PhD or even MD/PhD, the normal route that most people take when in graduate school?

[anxious_101]

I can tell you that MDs are highly encouraged to pursue PhDs, at least at U of T. They even encourage 1st year MD students to re-class into MD/PhD program.

[leap87]

Thank you for the input.

 

I understand that having a masters can lead to a lot of flexibility down the road and such applicants are good candidates for many things (this was actually one of the reasons I decided to do a masters). I was just wondering what if the question comes up on why do you want to make a switch to medicine (clinical) after having done a masters in basic sciences? Why not continue on with PhD or even MD/PhD, the normal route that most people take when in graduate school?

 

I don't know why you're asking us for the answer to your question (or maybe I don't understand the question). You should know WHY you didn't apply to MD/PhD or apply to continue in Ph.D.

[Real Beef]

I don't know why you're asking us for the answer to your question (or maybe I don't understand the question). You should know WHY you didn't apply to MD/PhD or apply to continue in Ph.D.

 

He or she just wants to know an answer to 'fabricate' that sounds good to the ears of a Med admission committee member. You are right dreamformed knows that answer already (i.e. I dont feel like it, I like medicine better, a PhD doesnt make enough money) but likely thinks it would not 'sound like a good answer'

 

Leap87 is right ... you know the answer, just be truthful. Back it up with your reasoning and it cant be a 'wrong answer' as it is how you feel and your choice .... you dont have to have some amazing revelation to impress the med school adcom.

 

In my undergrad I switched undergrad degrees because the job market was not favorable to my first degree. If you choose to not pursue research obviously research does not ignite your passions ... no big deal.

 

Beef

[leap87]

He or she just wants to know an answer to 'fabricate' that sounds good to the ears of a Med admission committee member. You are right dreamformed knows that answer already (i.e. I dont feel like it, I like medicine better, a PhD doesnt make enough money) but likely thinks it would not 'sound like a good answer'

 

Leap87 is right ... you know the answer, just be truthful. Back it up with your reasoning and it cant be a 'wrong answer' as it is how you feel and your choice .... you dont have to have some amazing revelation to impress the med school adcom.

 

In my undergrad I switched undergrad degrees because the job market was not favorable to my first degree. If you choose to not pursue research obviously research does not ignite your passions ... no big deal.

 

Beef

+1

 

I also want to add that it is NOT a normal route for graduate students to continue onto a Ph.D. I know a whole ton of people who just did their Master's and went on to either meds or physio or entered into the workforce. In fact, the number of people that actually decide to do a Ph.D. is very low in numbers in comparison to the number of people who do their Master's. Some people end up hating grad school for whatever reason during their Master's and would never even consider (unless that's the only option) going into a Ph.D.

 

So like Beef said, be honest. Don't try to think of an answer that you think will make you look good. It's very easy to spot "fakeness" or "dishonesty" unless you're a truly remarkable liar.

[anxious_101]

+1

 

I also want to add that it is NOT a normal route for graduate students to continue onto a Ph.D. I know a whole ton of people who just did their Master's and went on to either meds or physio or entered into the workforce. In fact, the number of people that actually decide to do a Ph.D. is very low in numbers in comparison to the number of people who do their Master's. Some people end up hating grad school for whatever reason during their Master's and would never even consider (unless that's the only option) going into a Ph.D.

 

So like Beef said, be honest. Don't try to think of an answer that you think will make you look good. It's very easy to spot "fakeness" or "dishonesty" unless you're a truly remarkable liar.

 

Many people are avoiding the PhD degree now as getting jobs is very hard. And if you do get a job, it's very low paying relative to your investment. The students in the summer lab I was in were all quite negative about their careers.

 

But I think if you're really interested in lab work and research, it makes sense to do a PhD provided you have a mapped out career path. I will be doing a PhD because I like research and not because I am using it as a means to get into something else - like medicine.

 

This is a very interesting read on the topic: http://www.economist.com/node/17723223

[thehumanmacbook]

Many people are avoiding the PhD degree now as getting jobs is very hard. And if you do get a job, it's very low paying relative to your investment. The students in the summer lab I was in were all quite negative about their careers.

 

But I think if you're really interested in lab work and research, it makes sense to do a PhD provided you have a mapped out career path. I will be doing a PhD because I like research and not because I am using it as a means to get into something else - like medicine.

 

This is a very interesting read on the topic: http://www.economist.com/node/17723223

 

Love it! Very true points about PhD candidacy.

[dreamformed]

Thanks for the input everyone. I was not asking for an answer for why not go into PhD, that's something I need to find the answer to myself (i.e. Is it really something I want to do?). Personally, I don't feel that it is right for to commit to a PhD right after my masters.....I might end up changing my mind down the road. I love research but the kind of research I am currently involved with does not provide many opportunities outside of academia (like most research)...so I need to be sure before committing that kind of time to PhD.

 

Anyhow, I was just wondering if most graduate students actually end up applying to the joint program (MD/PhD) since they are encouraged to do so by the med school or because it is expected from them (at least that's what I found from the admissions websites of many schools). Sorry if I didn't word my question properly.

[leap87]

Many people are avoiding the PhD degree now as getting jobs is very hard. And if you do get a job, it's very low paying relative to your investment. The students in the summer lab I was in were all quite negative about their careers.

 

But I think if you're really interested in lab work and research, it makes sense to do a PhD provided you have a mapped out career path. I will be doing a PhD because I like research and not because I am using it as a means to get into something else - like medicine.

 

This is a very interesting read on the topic: http://www.economist.com/node/17723223

 

Yeah, I've read that article when it came out. It might be true that the chances of getting a job in academia are slim, but if you play it smart, your prospects increase. I'm in the field that is growing and it's going to continue to grow in the future. I don't necessarily have to get a job in academia, as it is flexible. I could get a job working at a hospital (private or public) or for a company like Adidas, Nike (for those who get lucky).

 

It is also about how you carry yourself, what you do as a grad student and whom you meet. Ultimately, it boils down to connections. I know a lot of grad students from my department that graduated with a Ph.D. and landed a very nice position at either a university, hospital or even one of the guys ended up working for forensics. I truly believe that succeeding in academia is all about being smart and paving your way in your 4 years of Ph.D.

 

However, I DO know a lot of grad students that are just wasting time, replicating studies that have already been proven, etc. Many of them propose and defend and I'm left with one question "So what? You've done all of this research... how does this contribute to the betterment of our society?" and usually it might contribute 0.00000001%. The point is to design a study, bring an idea into it that will make an impact on the society. Then you become a lot happier. In all honesty, as soon as students realize it is not about just doing some research or what your supervisor wants you to do, but doing something that makes you passionate about the topic and genuinely interested, they will be a lot happier. You really need to find a topic that makes you angry and makes you ask the big question ("WHY?").

 

So my point is, when you're going into a Ph.D. choose your studies wisely; weigh the cons and the pros; look up who your supervisor truly is and with whom they have connections; see how much money they have to help you put yourself out there... It's not just "hey look someone gave me an offer and I'll go for it because I've got nothing better to do". If you do that, in all honesty, it's a waste of time and resources.

 

Edit: I just wanted to add: yes, grad studies are A LOT of work. BUT, tell me which job isn't?! Graduate studies (especially when you're doing a Ph.D.) is work. It's not school. It is your job. However, it is flexible. It is up to YOU how you divide your work. If you waste time, the week will be long and you'll be in the lab for hours. And yes, sometimes things fail and sometimes you're required to stay long hours no matter how you manage time, but tell me which job isn't like that?! I look at my mom... she works on the weekends... she works long hours during the week (from 8am until 7:30pm)... Yes, for a higher salary, but it took a long time for her to get to where she is today. You can't expect to be paid $100,000 a year right away. Rome was not built in one day.

[Gunner10]

Yeah, I've read that article when it came out. It might be true that the chances of getting a job in academia are slim, but if you play it smart, your prospects increase. I'm in the field that is growing and it's going to continue to grow in the future. I don't necessarily have to get a job in academia, as it is flexible. I could get a job working at a hospital (private or public) or for a company like Adidas, Nike (for those who get lucky).

 

It is also about how you carry yourself, what you do as a grad student and whom you meet. Ultimately, it boils down to connections. I know a lot of grad students from my department that graduated with a Ph.D. and landed a very nice position at either a university, hospital or even one of the guys ended up working for forensics. I truly believe that succeeding in academia is all about being smart and paving your way in your 4 years of Ph.D.

 

However, I DO know a lot of grad students that are just wasting time, replicating studies that have already been proven, etc. Many of them propose and defend and I'm left with one question "So what? You've done all of this research... how does this contribute to the betterment of our society?" and usually it might contribute 0.00000001%. The point is to design a study, bring an idea into it that will make an impact on the society. Then you become a lot happier. In all honesty, as soon as students realize it is not about just doing some research or what your supervisor wants you to do, but doing something that makes you passionate about the topic and genuinely interested, they will be a lot happier. You really need to find a topic that makes you angry and makes you ask the big question ("WHY?").

 

So my point is, when you're going into a Ph.D. choose your studies wisely; weigh the cons and the pros; look up who your supervisor truly is and with whom they have connections; see how much money they have to help you put yourself out there... It's not just "hey look someone gave me an offer and I'll go for it because I've got nothing better to do". If you do that, in all honesty, it's a waste of time and resources.

 

Edit: I just wanted to add: yes, grad studies are A LOT of work. BUT, tell me which job isn't?! Graduate studies (especially when you're doing a Ph.D.) is work. It's not school. It is your job. However, it is flexible. It is up to YOU how you divide your work. If you waste time, the week will be long and you'll be in the lab for hours. And yes, sometimes things fail and sometimes you're required to stay long hours no matter how you manage time, but tell me which job isn't like that?! I look at my mom... she works on the weekends... she works long hours during the week (from 8am until 7:30pm)... Yes, for a higher salary, but it took a long time for her to get to where she is today. You can't expect to be paid $100,000 a year right away. Rome was not built in one day.

 

+1 Grad school places responsibility on the individual to make things happen. Take on a project that has the potential to make an impact in the field. Network, network, network. There are some people that struggle, but there are also some that do really well. It's the same in any profession.

[lost__in__space]

 

However, I DO know a lot of grad students that are just wasting time, replicating studies that have already been proven, etc. Many of them propose and defend and I'm left with one question "So what? You've done all of this research... how does this contribute to the betterment of our society?" and usually it might contribute 0.00000001%. The point is to design a study, bring an idea into it that will make an impact on the society. Then you become a lot happier. In all honesty, as soon as students realize it is not about just doing some research or what your supervisor wants you to do, but doing something that makes you passionate about the topic and genuinely interested, they will be a lot happier. You really need to find a topic that makes you angry and makes you ask the big question ("WHY?").

 

 

+10

 

I was miserable in grad school until I designed a secondary project for myself where I built something I wanted to build, not something my supervisor wanted. I loved it and now want to do a PhD building more medical devices :-)