Blitz2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 After you get called for IV, what does ranking depend on? I'm an IMG, but I hear that its 100% interview at that stage (particularly for Gen Surg, which is what I'm applying for) Is this true? Or does stuff like Personal Statement/Ref Letters/Electives/CV still count even after the interview when they are ranking? I thought that stuff is what gets you the interview... Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 I think this varies a lot depending on the program! Check out the program descriptions on the CaRMS website - all of them have some kind of info about the selection criteria and what they expect during the interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man_2ba Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 After you get called for IV, what does ranking depend on? I'm an IMG, but I hear that its 100% interview at that stage (particularly for Gen Surg, which is what I'm applying for) Is this true? Or does stuff like Personal Statement/Ref Letters/Electives/CV still count even after the interview when they are ranking? I thought that stuff is what gets you the interview... Thanks! I am CMG, I asked this question from a program director, and I figured out is all about the Interview at this stage of the game [once your have the Interview], doesn't matter, CMG or IMG/CSA. Just rank your surgery high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostintime Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 That kinda doesn't make a lot of sense. So they're going to judge someone they'll be working with for 5 years based on a 15-20 min interaction rather than evidence from paper that is a compilation of stuff someone's done for their whole life. Sure, some places might place more emphasis on interview, esp competitive programs, but 100% interview seems kinda messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 That kinda doesn't make a lot of sense. So they're going to judge someone they'll be working with for 5 years based on a 15-20 min interaction rather than evidence from paper that is a compilation of stuff someone's done for their whole life. Sure, some places might place more emphasis on interview, esp competitive programs, but 100% interview seems kinda messed up. Competitive programs are based on elective exposure mostly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man_2ba Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 That kinda doesn't make a lot of sense. So they're going to judge someone they'll be working with for 5 years based on a 15-20 min interaction rather than evidence from paper that is a compilation of stuff someone's done for their whole life. Sure, some places might place more emphasis on interview, esp competitive programs, but 100% interview seems kinda messed up. They have invited us to an interview because we are excellent candidates, the Interview is to kick the wheel, check under the hood and see if they can last the next couple of years looking at our face. Although, the paper application plays an important role in selection criteria, it is important to understand, when a Program invites you on the 29th-31st and my interview is 40 minutes. they will ask questions to understand me and how I will act. I speak of Manitoba, I am sure IM has already given its rank and the interview will move you up 5 spots or down 5 spots. Surgery as I understand is all about letters of reference to get selected, and Interview. Family Medicine is all Interview. Dermatology, Optho for sure they will look at paper application like research, abstracts but again thats for selection, the Interview gets you ranked. They inviting us because they want to work with us. They interview us to rank us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justletmein Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 All of this "information" is based on a med student's interaction with "an advisor" Take it with a grain of salt. Your application will be evaluated differently at every program. Bottom line= The interview is important. Prepare adequately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man_2ba Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 All of this "information" is based on a med student's interaction with "an advisor" Take it with a grain of salt. Your application will be evaluated differently at every program. Bottom line= The interview is important. Prepare adequately. Thank you for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Hey, thanks for all the replies guys, quite informative. I agree, I figured that paper application is what gets you interview. After that its all interview...and maybe some CV stuff....(at least for gen surg) So with IMGs having on average 2-3 interviews, do I still have a chance of matching (with my 3 interviews in Gen Surg). I'm talking to my medical school friends in Toronto, and these guys are lining up 9-10 Gen Surg Interviews across the country... So I'm already disheartened.... They have invited us to an interview because we are excellent candidates, the Interview is to kick the wheel, check under the hood and see if they can last the next couple of years looking at our face. Although, the paper application plays an important role in selection criteria, it is important to understand, when a Program invites you on the 29th-31st and my interview is 40 minutes. they will ask questions to understand me and how I will act. I speak of Manitoba, I am sure IM has already given its rank and the interview will move you up 5 spots or down 5 spots. Surgery as I understand is all about letters of reference to get selected, and Interview. Family Medicine is all Interview. Dermatology, Optho for sure they will look at paper application like research, abstracts but again thats for selection, the Interview gets you ranked. They inviting us because they want to work with us. They interview us to rank us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostintime Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 It's a lot easier to lie/fake in a 30-40 min or even less interview versus being on elective for a couple of weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 It's a lot easier to lie/fake in a 30-40 min or even less interview versus being on elective for a couple of weeks. I agree 100%...but thats why reference letters are key...especially since LORs are blinded from the applicant (well, at least mine were).. I spent 1 month of elective with each of my ref letter writers, so they knew me quite well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostintime Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Yeah so wouldn't it make more sense for LOR's to valued more than interviews? This 100% interview thing still sounds like it has no logical basis whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Second Daniel Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Yeah so wouldn't it make more sense for LOR's to valued more than interviews? This 100% interview thing still sounds like it has no logical basis whatsoever. LORs are not game breakers because students (diligent ones) will ensure that they will be getting letters from trusted individuals who will 99% write something positive about said person. If you've taken some of the psych classes, they will teach you this-LORs are not super important because all of them are positive. The interview, however, is extremely important because you can't lie or try and manipulate the committee to your own benefit. This is why it lasts close to an hour and many times with psychologists/psychiatrists in the room evaluating you unknowingly. The interview is where the committee learns who you are as a person, not a piece of paper, and whether or not you're sane enough to be a medical professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostintime Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 That's why it's not just ANY LOR but LOR from people they know/trust who may be on the committee or work closely with people on the committee. It's actually not that hard to train to perform really well on an interview. It's a lot harder to perform well in a couple of weeks time. Feedback from residents/people in the program probably weighs more than the interview. The only time the interview is 100% is if you mess up big time and there are red flags. Otherwise, mediocre/amazing interviews probably just subtract/add to the entire picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234 Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 LORs are not game breakers because students (diligent ones) will ensure that they will be getting letters from trusted individuals who will 99% write something positive about said person. If you've taken some of the psych classes, they will teach you this-LORs are not super important because all of them are positive. The interview, however, is extremely important because you can't lie or try and manipulate the committee to your own benefit. This is why it lasts close to an hour and many times with psychologists/psychiatrists in the room evaluating you unknowingly. The interview is where the committee learns who you are as a person, not a piece of paper, and whether or not you're sane enough to be a medical professional. Interviews don't last an hour. Psychologists/psychiatrists? AHAHAHAHA. The interview is a flag, not a primary determinant. Your body of work (application) is much more valuable than a short high pressure interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234 Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 That's why it's not just ANY LOR but LOR from people they know/trust who may be on the committee or work closely with people on the committee. It's actually not that hard to train to perform really well on an interview. It's a lot harder to perform well in a couple of weeks time. Feedback from residents/people in the program probably weighs more than the interview. The only time the interview is 100% is if you mess up big time and there are red flags. Otherwise, mediocre/amazing interviews probably just subtract/add to the entire picture. +1. Most programs have rank lists completed prior to the interviews. Post interview deliberation is much quicker than pre-interview discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostintime Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 And furthermore, even if positive, LOR's still say a lot imo. If you only had 2-3 weeks to do an elective at some school, and you only put in LOR's from other schools, then it's a red flag you weren't able to impress/get to know a staff to write a letter for you. So sometimes NOT having certain letters also says things as well, despite you having all positive letters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234 Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 LORs are not game breakers because students (diligent ones) will ensure that they will be getting letters from trusted individuals who will 99% write something positive about said person. If you've taken some of the psych classes, they will teach you this-LORs are not super important because all of them are positive. The interview, however, is extremely important because you can't lie or try and manipulate the committee to your own benefit. This is why it lasts close to an hour and many times with psychologists/psychiatrists in the room evaluating you unknowingly. The interview is where the committee learns who you are as a person, not a piece of paper, and whether or not you're sane enough to be a medical professional. This is the biggest LOL post. The refereee is the most important part of a letter and whether they are known and trusted by the committee. Second is what they write. But if the committee doesn't really know them, what they write is largely unimportant. The references, provided they are blinded to the applicant, are the only real objective source of information they have. They don't really care about personal statements. Clinical evaluations are meaningless provided you don't have any flags. This is not a job for the FBI or CSIS. They don't have psychiatrists analyzing your body language. The interviews are to determine fit and to verify that they can tolerate you for the length of the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 I will repeat myself, how you perform on elective at a program is the KEY factor as to how you are ranked by that program. Everything else is a distant second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Remember that the interviewers are not blinded to your application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 So am I screwed to match at the places I did not do an elective at for Gen Surg (Western/Ottawa)? Is it necessary, especially for myself (IMG), to do an elective at that site? I hope the residency programs understand how hard it is for IMGs to get Canadian electives... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostintime Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Well the fact that you got an interview as an IMG without doing an elective is quite impressive. In surgical programs as far, they seem to value electives quite a lot. So you must have something really good on your application for them to give you an interview. How far that will carry you to the next stage will be hard to say, but I mean, there's not much you can do now, just try your best at the interview, good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man_2ba Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Interview is 99%-100% determinant factor of Family Residency Ranking. I dont know about IM, Surgery or anything else. But for Family Medicine, they invite us because they have read all of our applications, for IM is true I have heard they have a rank list, you go up or down. This could be for any specialty, but again for Family Medicine in Manitoba, which is 40 minutes long interview, and 3 days of resident meeting, program director meeting, faculty meeting, is all about the Interview. They read your application that why they give you the Interview. If your super applicant, and screw up on an interview you still can be matched. Regarding IMG situation in Manitoba, I am 100% they are not inviting everyone. they invited 80 people for 53 positions this year, including IMG's. last year was 75 people for 45 FM positions. so I dont know. I just hope I am ranked number 1. But again I must say Interview is deal maker. You ace the interview you get the residency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man_2ba Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 LORs are not game breakers because students (diligent ones) will ensure that they will be getting letters from trusted individuals who will 99% write something positive about said person. If you've taken some of the psych classes, they will teach you this-LORs are not super important because all of them are positive. The interview, however, is extremely important because you can't lie or try and manipulate the committee to your own benefit. This is why it lasts close to an hour and many times with psychologists/psychiatrists in the room evaluating you unknowingly. The interview is where the committee learns who you are as a person, not a piece of paper, and whether or not you're sane enough to be a medical professional. So you see, you must of talked to the same person. Or we are getting our info from the same place. Are you going for FM in Manitoba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooty Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 I will repeat myself, how you perform on elective at a program is the KEY factor as to how you are ranked by that program. Everything else is a distant second. So am I screwed to match at the places I did not do an elective at for Gen Surg (Western/Ottawa)? PDs don't want to see students doing all their electives in one discipline. I gathered that the max we should do in any one discipline is 3-4. Would it be appropriate to approach the PD in your program of interest while you're completing an elective in another department? I imagine I would introduce myself and express my interest in the specialty. Would this be good bad or neutral for my application? And is 4 electives in your discipline of interest too many? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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