2011-2012 Grades

[corri]

Hello

 

A friend applied to OT just today and we noticed that the 2011-2012 that we enter as year 2012 doesn't let us enter grades even though she has received marks back from fall 2011 already. Did we do something wrong? Anyone know why this is the case?

 

Thank you!

[Crane]

No, its okay. Its because the marks are still unofficial.

They'll just get it off your official transcript.

[corri]

Ohhh thanks! Phew! Had no choice but to submit.

[kin_kid]

No, its okay. Its because the marks are still unofficial.

They'll just get it off your official transcript.

 

Hey Crane are you applying too?

[Crane]

Yep.

(10 char)

[corri]

I finished the OT program at Mac in 2010. I'd be happy to comment on it or answer questions if I can, especially come interview time, if anyone would like. I really don't know much about the other OT schools.

[person14]

Hi Corri, can you comment on the job market right now for OTs (especially in Toronto and surrounding areas)

I've heard that OT grads are finding it difficult to land a job in Toronto, which worries me

[corri]

Hello

 

I had heard that too. A stat we were told was that for Toronto, it's 4 OTs to 1 job. But I was one of the first to get a job in central Toronto actually. It helped that I knew an older OT who recommended me.

 

I worked in the auto sector for a year, which is where most of the job prospects are. Hospitals are more difficult, but if you're patient to take on temporary or part-time contract positions, each puts you higher and higher on the list to being permanent. I really wouldn't worry too much about the job situation, unless you're set on something very particular. I don't know anyone from my class that didn't find a job within about 4 months after school ended. Actually one person went to Sudbury believing he'd never luck out in Toronto, but my advice would suggest otherwise and be persistent. He regrets it.

 

One problem that we're not yet sure of how it will affect us is the changes to auto insurance Sept. 1st, 2010. Less rehab benefits available = less work for OT. My company started to feel the impact only this past summer making job security quite stressful.

 

Hope that's helpful!

[person14]

Thanks a lot for your insights, Corri!! I didn't have a specific field in mind, but I was surprised when you said most jobs are in auto/insurance sector! I thought most OTs were employed at SNFs, but I guess I love the versatility of OT.

[OThopefulTX]

Hi Corri,

 

Thanks for the helpful information!

I was wondering what the salary range is in the auto/ insurance sector? I have a pretty good idea about what OTs in hospitals make, but I never can find info on the private or auto insurance companies.

Also, do you happen to know any OTs you went to school with (who are Canadian) that went to go work in the states after graduation? and how that process works?

 

Thanks

[corri]

Hello

 

I don't mind discussing salary. I started at 50 before I took the OT licensing exam, which is about a month after you graduate. Then went to 60. At 6 months or after, 65. You probably can't find any information because it varies. The OT working a year ahead of me was at about 74, only after about a year and a half there for her. My guess is that we lucked out for getting big salary increases at regular progress checks.

 

I think auto sector generally makes more. This is what we were also told in school.

 

However... I know 'of' a couple OTs who were on their own contract work. I was on salary, but most in insurance are contract. They are paid per assessment or per hour and would make more than someone on salary. Of course, you wouldn't get benefits (which I didn't have anyways), but also no job security or promise of hours week to week. I've heard these people can get a lot of money and I've heard ridiculous amounts, but especially with the insurance changes, this may hurt them. A surprising number of my clinical preceptors in the hospital full-time do the odd assessment on the side to bump up their salary.

 

As for working in the US, this is something I was sure I'd consider for some time. I don't think the process was that arduous, but I ended up not looking into it once done school. Pretty sure it just involves a test though (and probably about $1000 for the test). Google NBCOT to look for the test info. I think that different states have different requirements and some states do not even need the licensing exam. AOTA may mention something about this on their site.

We had a company called Pulse led by two Kiwis I think or just promoted by them. From what I remember, they help you with the process to bring Canadian OTs to the states. The US is desperate for Canadian OTs and apparently pay more. This company sets you up on contracts for various lengths in different states that you'd like and all accommodation is paid for... this is why I wanted to go, especially with the dismal prospects of Toronto. I wanted New York or Florida. They said these would be more difficult and less appealing states or outside of major US cities would be easy. Other than that, I don't know much, but now that you reminded me, I'll probably look back into it!

[corri]

Oh I'd definitely say more in the auto sector! I'd say that OTs are always in SNFs but there are usually few OTs handling caseload that's too big to manage in these settings... that's my impression anyways. I think that many OTs circulate nursing homes, rather than more belong to one too.

 

The versatility is great. I thought I was more physio-minded, which would have been great to work hands-on like in Neuro. I went through school thinking mental health and focused my research on Schizophrenia and then came out in the auto sector. So many areas I haven't even touched on, like hand therapy, which I think would be interesting too!

[person14]

Thanks Corri for the insights.

 

Can you speak about how your classes are and field placements? Like are there mostly group assignments, verbal-tests, presentations, and what not? And did you enjoy your field placements/ is it hard to pass them?

[corri]

Thanks Corri for the insights.

 

Can you speak about how your classes are and field placements? Like are there mostly group assignments, verbal-tests, presentations, and what not? And did you enjoy your field placements/ is it hard to pass them?

 

Sure.

There are 6 terms over the 2 yrs (includes regular semester time plus a summer term). There is a placement in each term which gets longer. This is for Mac. Toronto, at least, was definitely on a different schedule than us.

 

So first term had only a 4 week placement (may be 3 now). Then it went to 5 full weeks, maybe two placements were 6 weeks long and the last was 8 weeks long. The 5th term is dedicated to the research project, spent with your supervisor and collecting data.

 

Class is probably quite different at Mac than other schools. We had a couple courses, but honestly, they seemed less separate from each other since there are the same people in your class and because of the varying content. Like, for example, one class was prep, which included practical skills. So it covered a variety of topics. In class, it was generally lectured, but the profs, everyday, engaged our whole group in discussion and it became quite reflective and people brought up topics for debate. Little structure.

 

There was PBT-problem based tutorial where we were in small groups and discussed a particular case. You get to choose what you're interested in and decide to go research it and share with the group the next week.

 

I'll tell you what I liked and didn't like... I came into the program being fairly exhausted from undergrad, probably could have taken a break. (Ps I noticed that most people in my class were mature students who had some work experience, so I was younger). I wanted to be a more passive member in the class and I actually learn a lot from the didactic style of undergrad. So letting the discussion and flow of class determine what we learned seemed a little "fluffy" to me.

 

The class changes a lot with the topic and various presentations so there are opportunities to gain more structured and direct skills, but you are definitely responsible for what you learn. Generally, out of the program, I learned how to problem-solve a situation, be a critical thinker, be adaptive to new situations and find information I needed. All great skills, but I don't feel like I actually know what to DO. Both are important for finding jobs. Hope you're following me. I think that is the difference between maybe a Mac and Toronto grad.

 

PBT was fun, but I was pretty tired of the concentration on feedback by the end. It is an incredibly valuable skill that I learned from the program and continually use, but it was somewhat exhausting in that I felt I could not get better... like there comes a time when I don't want people to dissect everything I did and be evaluated.

 

Placements were absolutely great. Just when you get tired of class, is when class ends and placement starts too so the timing of it is refreshing.

How your placements go is ALL dependent on your preceptor. Whether you enjoy it depends on how selective you are when requesting your location and area. And these make your learning very different from every other person in the class.

Sometimes I found placement difficult because every move is evaluated. You're thrown into situations you obviously don't have experience in and have the added pressure of being evaluated by how you perform. My favourite preceptors let me learn my way- which was watching them first, trying something in parts, then the whole, then be on my own. Mixing that order really was challenging for me.

I think the biggest problem in the preceptor type is that some OTs have this complex where they really enjoy the superiority position of having a student. They feel they have responsibility over your learning and sort of stress you because of that. So, like class, at least for me... I found that at the end of placement, it was nice to go back to class.

Placement is really how you make it though. If you are charismatic and even force this positive attitude on days that you're tired, get along with not only the preceptor but other staff and be very open about your own progress and evaluation, you will enjoy it.

 

I think that most people in the class can talk about a placement where they felt their preceptor wasn't going to pass them. I had this on my last placement. There is a lot more expected of you in the last one and I found that I was working non-stop when I got home to prove myself. This preceptor told me she may have been hard on me because the previous year's student she had, failed, meaning they didn't graduate the program. There were a few people that I know if that didn't pass a placement. If it's not your last one, it involves a remediation. I think it's some extra work. The people that I knew were under remediation were ones that spoke about it. Otherwise, it seems that the program helps you manage this on time outside of class.

 

We started at about 68 people and ended with about 60. I think maybe 2 didn't graduate with us because they had to do an extra placement, a few had difficulty with class assignments and weren't completing things well or getting overwhelmed. For example, someone in PBT wasn't bringing in enough material consistently over terms and it was clear that there wasn't an effort. I don't know the other reasons. I would say that it's difficult to fail considering these people have managed to get good enough marks to get in the program. Like I said, I was burnt out which made it very challenging, but I managed well. If you're going through a life stressor at any time in the program, it WILL be noticed. It's a very tight-knit program that looks for your strengths and weaknesses. They're very open to help you with such matters though, and I believe every year, there is someone that needs a break and comes back the following year. This is on an individual basis. I guess I want to stress that it can be intensive but I wouldn't want to see that stop anyone from entering. Considering the varied ways they test you... presentation, research, didactic style, critical analysis, practical... you will quickly learn where your weaknesses are.

 

Wow. Sorry that's so long and may not have addressed what you wanted. If you want more specific info, just ask!

[person14]

Wow, thanks Corri for the info!! I am excited that the OT program doesn't merely consist of exams, and that there are other ways to be tested. I am definitely not going to McMaster though because I am not a fan of Hamilton!

Ideally, I want to go to UofT. I am a little worried reading about people failing their field work placements! This is a little (very) scary

I was under the impression that passing was quite easy, but I did not know they carefully evaluate your competencies and what not. I was wondering if you can expand more on the placements? What kinds of tasks did you perform; is it difficult to pass? I just can't fathom a preceptor failing students unless they've done something terribly wrong... it just seems a bit extreme to me, since we're just here to learn and improve, and failing students who demonstrate effort kind of ruins their lives lol.

[corri]

Wow, thanks Corri for the info!! I am excited that the OT program doesn't merely consist of exams, and that there are other ways to be tested. I am definitely not going to McMaster though because I am not a fan of Hamilton!

Ideally, I want to go to UofT. I am a little worried reading about people failing their field work placements! This is a little (very) scary

I was under the impression that passing was quite easy, but I did not know they carefully evaluate your competencies and what not. I was wondering if you can expand more on the placements? What kinds of tasks did you perform; is it difficult to pass? I just can't fathom a preceptor failing students unless they've done something terribly wrong... it just seems a bit extreme to me, since we're just here to learn and improve, and failing students who demonstrate effort kind of ruins their lives lol.

 

No problem!

Well, Hamilton could surprise you. It's not all bad!

The placement is graded on a learning contract, it's called. My most dreaded task. But there were specific skills that we had to accomplish and we had to decide how we would accomplish that for our specific placement. Like for example, one may be to determine treatment goals and I would demonstrate this by conducting initial interviews each day and figuring out the client's goals or one may be demonstrate professionalism and I may show this by following procedural guidelines if a client had a fall or by effective inter-professional communication. It could be to research and present to people preparing for hip replacements on what to expect and how to use assistive devices to avoid certain movements that aren't allowed following surgery (one I remember doing).

 

So for us, we sit down with our preceptor and go through broad skills and decide how we'd like to demonstrate this. Then we decide on when we want to sit down next for feedback and the preceptor will say you're doing good, you haven't done this yet, you did this, but not well enough... that sort of thing. I absolutely don't think you should be worried about not passing placements. Take each placement as though this could be your potential workplace. And I think some preceptors keep that in mind of you, looking at you as a potential coworker... How would they feel having you on their team? Do they trust your judgment, your reasoning, do you have a strong voice to advocate for your client during rounds, can you perform tasks independently, are your clinical notes recording what you've done and what is relevant so that if a lawsuit were to happen, you have clear documentation.

 

Of course there is a learning curve. Those are the things you work towards. It is not merely shadowing, although the first placement mainly is, so they want you to work to pass. As you move further and further, you should assume more responsibility and the expectations also rise. If you aren't getting the independence, it's not beneficial to you and you'd want your preceptor to know that.

 

It did seem extreme to me as well that people have failed and also that I even struggled myself, but it is no longer a multiple choice test, so you will find things you have to work on and you'll grow to feel comfortable with them. The fact that you're on this forum and asking me these questions assures me that you're likely going to be fine moving through the placements and if you have one weakness, which I'd be surprised if you didn't, you will work at it. Also... in the event that someone isn't fine, there would be much warning and it'd be clear how to stay in the clear. They're quite supportive. It may mean another placement or working harder to show you can do something if such warnings weren't enough, but you would even want that for yourself so you can feel confident in being on your own once you graduate. I think some of those people that didn't graduate with the class had opportunities to come back later.

 

But I don't believe we were ever thrown something we couldn't manage or without resources. Even showing effort accounts for a lot. This is speaking ahead though. Clearest in my mind is the last placement which was a difficult one for me, I had a preceptor with high expectations, and a challenging placement itself. I had to learn how to bounce back and do better after receiving negative feedback. That was definitely taxing on me, but there is plenty of opportunity to show you can do something well. It will never be sprung on someone that they are going to fail! Overall, it is hard to fail. It will be easy for your weaknesses to surface, but it will be unlikely that with practice and determination, you won't improve on them. It is only intense in that way. We were all fairly confident we would get through the program. If some life-changing event occurred or you became ill, I think the best advice I could give is to take the break rather than push through. Speaking for myself (and maybe this is why my messages aren't as uplifting as you'd like), I should have used the break feeling 'done' with school before entering OT, but I was too persistent to get through it or get it over with because I thought it'd be harder to return after a break. One of my friends in the Toronto physio program did take a break and she couldn't imagine not doing so.

 

However, you shouldn't worry. They will start with baby steps and it will be a natural progression.

 

As you can tell, its' hard for me to say simply what you're evaluated on, because it's decided between you and your preceptor, and some subset of skills your program wants. Likely what will give you your 'good' vs 'excellent' (because the majority WILL do very well), is your preceptor's overall impression of you. So befriend them, be professional and willing to learn, and you'll excel!

 

Oh.. and I'm pretty sure that Toronto's learning contract is much more simpler than Mac's. Mac likely changed the way they do it now, but it was a long and tedious contract, where Toronto stayed more broad in what they wanted students to learn.

 

I will be interested to hear when the offers are sent out!

[person14]

Thanks Corri!!!!! You definitely made me feel better about the placements!! I am excited and simply cannot wait until May!!!

[corri]

Happy to help! Keep me updated in May!

[OThopefulTX]

Wow. thank you so much corri for taking the time to thoroughly answer our questions. You've provided me with so much information and given me a better sense of the OT program (particularly at MAC). Thanks again!