Questions for all

[Guest katie]

Hi everyone

 

I am new to the board but I think it's fantastic! BTW I am 2nd year chem engineering / Pharmacology at UofT

A few questions for all.

 

I know medical school requires extensive volunteer experience but I was just wondering exactly how much the people have who get in. Also what sorts of activities are considered exceptional rather than what usual applicant has.

 

Thanks for answering my questions I'm sorry if they seem stupid and naive but i appreciate any input. Thank you

[Guest Katie]

Oh darn it, someone took my name. Guess I should have registered.

I'll have to go by my SDN name now, KatieKat.

[Guest not rex morgan]

Katie. I can tell you what I personally did. I volunteered one summer in a cancer centre, one summer in an extended care facility, served on my residence councel, volunteered for three years in emerg, two years in school and one year when I finished. I also went to a third-world country and volunteered for three months with a medical and developmental organisation. I don't know what is considered superfluous. Anything that catches their eye I guess. I think the volunteering abroad caught their eye in my case. Good luck. Best advice...do things that sincerely interest you. You'll be happier with yourself and you will be able to talk more extensively about your experiences in your interviews.

[Guest katie]

I'm really sorry about using your name, I didn't know the rules of the board and since its my first time on the board I didn't realize there was another Katie. I can use my middle name if you like.

 

 

Again I hope I didn't disturb the board by entering

 

Thank you

 

Katie

[Guest katie]

You're the best you have really given some great ideas!!!!!!

 

I really appreciate your input!

 

thanks Katie

[Guest timeithtan]

Hi Katie

 

Volunteer , Volunteer, Volunteer at anything that interests you, even create your own volunteer organization but make sure you give yourself the chance to gain exposure to people from all walks of life. I remember the faculty telling us in our first week that they were really trying hard to diversify the class with people from different socioeconomic backgrounds and experiences. As they put it" In Canada our poor recruiting practices of the past is starting to manifest itself in a group of doctors unwilling to give back to the schools, unwilling to look beyond the $ signs in their eyes. We are to blame as we took, immature kids 22 years old who have not experienced life and not had to develop sympathy , never faced hardship, had their parents sheild them and pay for everything. In turn we developed self centered, immature doctors who do not truly understand the profession. Now we seek out people with more than just perfect GPA's on mommy and daddy's bank roll. We are much more willing to accept a person with a lower GPA who worked his way through school and interacted with all types of people and really understood the meaning of commitment and sacrifice."

 

What this means to you Katie is volunteer , work anwhere you like and understand different people, how to deal with them in different situations. I unfortunatley was the bratty kid who was described to us in the first week and realized those who did have better backgrounds and experiences were much more interesting and had a lot to offer the class. I'm just glad I squeaked in withour having developed as a person but I'm working hard now volunteering extra time despite the heavy med school load

 

 

Good luck you will make it !!!!!

 

Tim

[Guest mmd]

Hey Katie

 

You seem really nice and welcome to the board, ignore the other katie who got bitchy about the name. caty is a better name for her. You will always find med/premed students who are so anal and bitchy, just don't change you seem to be very well adjusted.

 

In short ignore the bitch, keep your name and we all welcome you to the board!!!

[Guest not rex morgan]

Oh come on now, that's not very nice. I missed the so-called catty post. I suspect it has been removed? There is no need to call others names. Lets be mature folks...that is what we are looking for in our doctors isn't it. Welcome to the board "new Katie." You have been very mature in apologising for using someone else's name, so don't become bitter and mean like some of our other members who chose to use words that have just made it into acceptance by the censors. If you have any other questions just ask. Remember to contribute positively and sincerely in your volunteer endevors. Be proud of yourself and you will definitely have great things to offer the field.

[Guest strider2004]

Tim,

 

What school do you go to? One thing I've noticed about my school is that ages tend to blend together. I'm 23 now and have adjusted to having older people around me. The average age was about 25 for our class and I think that's normal across Ontario.

 

I haven't volunteered as much as many people. Most of my experience CV is built on research and my part-time work during undergrad. As much as I don't agree with the statement that young students make self-centred doctors(I'm supported by my parents too), I do wish I had more 'life experience' before I become responsible for peoples' needs.

There are people who have travelled to Tibet and spent time in India or have directed camps for Easter Seals. There just aren't enough summers off for me to do this.

 

Volunteering is an important part of medicine because it does allow you to see more angles of life. I suggest doing something that you've really wanted to do. If you want to backpack across Asia, then do that. Don't do anything because you think that admissions committees are looking for it, but because you think it'll enrich your life in some way.

 

In writing that, I felt like a bitter old hag. I think I'm suffering from some sort of post-exam depression. It's 2:46am on Friday night. I'm flying home in 9 hours.

[Guest jase]

i think the idea of going abroad to do volunteering is great...

 

however, imho, it really is just a thing to do to make yourself look good on CV (except the minority who really likes this stuff). it's something to talk about during interviews, etc, basically.

 

i'm very skeptical about this because these third world country trips costs a lot of $. for those who don't have the $ to participate, what then? i know a bunch of people who travelled to third world countries for "volunteer" work and got accepted to med school. don't u think there are enough opportunities for improvement in canada that they'd have to travel to some distant land to find "life experiences"?

[Guest monkey]

It does cost alot of money to go abroad for volunteering. Kinda ironic, that in our parents age, people worked hard to spend money, and now we spend money to work hard. I must say that it has had a profound affect on how I look at many things. However, I have also realized how much can really be done locally.

 

There also needs to be a great deal of development in downtown eastside and eastside vancouver. These people need just as much compassion and have much to offer in terms of life perspective.

 

One of the other things I realized was really how previledged I really am to have had the opportunity to do such volunteering. True, I worked hard to fundraise some of the money. But with the fortunate contribution of my family, friends and profs, this endeavor would have been extremely difficult....especially for someone who is working hard for their own livelihood.

 

Volunteering is important for being a physician. As it was mentioned, it gives many opportunities to gain perspective while making an important contribution. But more so, volunteering in an important part of becoming a person of society. So although there are many things that can be done to get more "points." and this may be part of the game of getting into a career....it is always important to remember what is close to your heart.

[Guest not rex morgan]

I don't know who "imho" is, so I thought I'd respond to your comments. Some people might say that Canadians are self-centred, and don't have a full understanding of what is going on in the rest of the world. Not only does the media not do the conditions justice, but often they mask situations abroad with a bias. Since we're pointing fingers, I suspect those with the you-just-went-abroad-to-get-into-med-school-and-spend-more-of-daddy's-money attitude, are a little defensive. "Methinks you dost protest too much." You can figure out what I mean by that. I'm sure with all of the time you spent in Canada, you scraped up enough time to read Hamlet. I had an undescribable experience abroad. It didn't cost me alot of money (note the cost of living in these contries is quite low). I spent my own money that I earned working in a research lab. I did it because I wanted to do something positive with the time I had. I even arranged for a medic to help me put together a first aid course to teach some people in a remote village to save lives as there were no roads into the village and it was a two hour hike. (I don't know if I'd call that "doing nothing") I did do volunteering in Canada. I would like to point out that what you can do as a volunteer in Canada is often seen as limited and volunteering in hospitals is also reserved for premed hopefuls, not sincerly wanting to "help" people. In fact, I think the downtown east side is a pretty sexy topic right now as well. I wouldn't be completely surprised to hear that in the midst of the many wonderful people doing amasing projects to sincerely help these lost individuals, there were a few people there trying to pad their CVs. I do know what you mean about some people going abroad to simply pad their CVs. I heard of a girl who went to India for 6 weeks to teach sexual education to women. Not possible that any valuable work was done. I knew of an HIV counsellor in India who had to build a rapport with the women for months before being able to talk openly. This is why I am now, and have always been, I should point out, a supporter of doing activities that you are sincerely interested in. I strongly suggest (just read like four posts up) that you do activities that you are seriously interested in and can be proud of. This will make you a more complete person and not just a spoiled brat with "Daddy's little gas card." (If you didn't get that reference, watch Reality Bites...especially if you are lacking perspective). I was asked about India in my interviews. I had a fantastic conversation with one of my interviewers. (I don't think that would have been possible with the other one :-) ) Anyways, they call you on why you do these things and I'm glad they do. My suggestion to those coming up. Pay no attention to the man/woman behind the curtain. Get ideas...etc, but do things that catch your eye, or better yet grab your heart.

[Guest KatieKat]

mmd, I fail to see my bitchy comment. All I said was I should have registered. Calm down, k?

 

My actual name isn't Katie, but I absolutely love the name. That's why I used it. Katie, you're so lucky to have such a cool name!

[Guest Ian Wong]

Hi Tim,

 

Nice to have another med student join our bulletin board here, among the people who hopefully will be med students in the future. Which school do you attend?

 

KatieKat, I guess this is a sign that you should probably register THIS name. Registration is quite useful in that you can then flag each forum as being "read." That way, if there are any new messages since your last visit, an icon will show up, so you don't need to flip through all the dates to find the most recent threads.

 

Ian

UBC, Med 3

[Guest EB]

not rex morgan,

 

i've been exploring looking up info on overseas volunteer opportunities with different organizations, and i was wondering if you'd be willing to give me some info on the group you worked with. so far from what i've seen, a lot of organizations seem to be offering very short, expensive trips where you do a *little bit* of work (maybe this is a strange way for some people to feel as though they've contributed to the world and taken a holiday at the same time... i don't know).... but it's not what i'm looking for. also, a lot of the long term opportunities do not have a flexible schedule (ie. start in october & end in february) so i can't do them over my summer break.

 

if you don't feel comfortable putting info on the internet about what group you volunteered with, and what it was like, i totally understand and if you could find the time, i'd really appreciate it if you could e-mail me: eab2@ualberta.ca

 

Thanks,

EB

[Guest not rex morgan]

Hey. I volunteered with a group called Child Family Health International. I don't know if I would completely reccomend them, although they did have a relatively reasonable price. I think it was like a thousand, including a set up one week tour to get you used to the country, someone met me at the airport and this fee included food, and lodging for three months...actually I think the extra months (ie after the first) were another 150 dollars. To be honest, you could forage your way through India for a bit cheaper, but it saved my sanity to have the tour in the first week organised for me. After that, I got over the culture shock and found my own way around quite well. Even with paying the "volunteer fees," it still worked out way cheaper than living in Canada for a few months...keep that in mind. CFHI links you up with groups abroad, so a word of caution. The main organiser in India (they have an Equador program as well) is an eco-tourist company. They have a small village that they've set up shop in and have a huge garden of herbal medicines and employed a doctor to serve the community. When I was there, they had just recently lost their doctor. I did spend a few days in the village there. I was actually there for Diwali and I actually danced with the village members that night, along with the other volunteers that joined me that month. Amasing. Like I said, though, the medical aspect of the village was shut down, so we did other things. I was on my own for the first month in another town with another NGO, and the med students (they also run a med student elective program) were in another city. I fended for myself and made a really amasing experience out of it. You have to be willing to look for your own opportunities. There was one month that the organisers did a really poor job in linking me up with volunteering. They were busy with other things. I actually did med elective things that month. I watched a surgery. Extremely interesting, but not quite what I was there for. Like I said, you make the most out of it. So with that, I would suggest you thouroughly research your travel abroad. Sorry this message is really disjointed, I'm taking a study break and need to get back to it. I do understand your need for flexibility. It is hard to find, but it is out there. When I was looking, I actually got some great search suggestions from Canadian non-profits who didn't have enough resources to run their abroad programs at the time. Care Canada would be worth contacting. They will either have programs you can apply for, or they will probably give you some good suggestions. CIDA (Canadian International Development A...) is another great organisation. They were low on funds at the time as well, but worth a try, b/c they do pay for you to go abroad. There have been, in the past, organisations that will pay for you to go. I found one to go to Haiti, but declined because of the social strife. It wouldn't have been fair to my family and friends to make them worry, so I elected to pay my way at a resonable price. Some do really overcharge you, though. I really believe that your volunteer work is what you make of it, so don't pay beyond lodging, food, and overhead, costs of running....you should not be paying more than that. You will get the same experiences out of a high-priced organisation as you would a reasonably priced one if it's all about what you put into it. This is really getting disjointed. Sorry. I would check out http://www.idealist.org , or http://www.theidealist.org I can't remember which it is. They list something like 30, 000 organisations. It's a good way to start. Good luck. If this doesn't make sense, just tell me.

[Guest BennyG]

Hi Everyone,

 

What an interesting discussion this is! I am truly impressed with the diverse and challenging experiences that have been described in these posts. However, I am concerned that overseas volunteering will be regarded as more valuable to med school admissions than other forms of volunteering. It would certainly be a shame if, at some point in the future, it became some sort of unspoken, de facto prerequisite. Overseas volunteering can be exciting and change one's perspective on life. But, as discussed in the previous posts, it is not suitable for everyone. Most people seem to cite money as a concern. I understand this, especially if one doesn't live with mom+dad and/or is not financially well-off. Others do not want to go to a country with an unstable political or military situation. Finally, some people truly enjoy working at a community level.

 

Let's be honest about one thing. CV padding goes on everywhere in the med school admissions game, from hospital corridors in Toronto to makeshift clinics in India. On the one hand, it is dishonest, shameful, and insulting to those with good intentions. On the other hand, the intentions of the "do-er" are irrelevant to the "do-ee"; what matters is that he/she doesn't starve, or get malaria, or be victim to some other awful fate. Someone has been helped, and ultimately that matters most. There is, also, a middle ground. I think there are many good and honest applicants who enjoy their volunteer activities, and the belief that it will help their admission chances is simply one of several motivating factors. I call these people HONEST and see no reason to condemn them.

 

As for overseas volunteering being "sexier" than other activities viz. admissions, I will paraphrase an anthropologist who was discussing stereotypes. He said of stereotypes: "rational people don't believe in them, but only someone very naive will deny that they are widely held." I think a similar situation applies here. Rationally, the volunteer experience should be evaluated for the effect it had on shaping the individual's character and the significance/impact of the activity. However, working in a clinic in Zimbabwe with starving orphans sure looks impressive when you read it on an application! (That is, of course, until one finds out that all the applicant did was sort blood samples, for example. An applicant can do that here in Canada as well.)

 

I certainly hope that people don't start rushing out to find things to do in far-away places; there is already way too much insanity associated with med school admissions and, as another author noted, there is plenty to do right here at home. As I wrote in my subject line, what's next? Space missions?

 

I never had the funds available to do much travelling either when I lived with mom+dad or on my own. However, I became involved in a number of meaningful local volunteering activities (schools, shelters, etc.) that I enjoyed tremendously. In terms of 1) helping me understand others and those in need who are different than me, 2) developing my empathy and maturity, and 3) changing my perspective on life, these experiences exceeded my expectations.

 

see ya,

 

BG

[Guest monkey]

Hi Not rex morgon,

 

I did not mean that going abroad is not a good idea. I think it is an excellent experience. It has certainly changed my life in many ways. I was merely pointing out that there is also valuable experiences at home. In response to the question of what constitutes a good volunteering opportunity? I just wanted to respond by saying....."something you believe in."

 

I think that it is wonderful that you did such a fullfilling project in India. And I hope that others can learn from your path. I also agree that there are many issues that we don't realise as westerners when we do work in a foriegn country. One of the projects I worked on was teen pregnancy and HIV awareness. The scientific information was clear, but it was quite challenging to figure out how to convey messages in a culturally sensitive way. We were very fortunate to have the help of local physicians and nurses to actually speak and local students who facilitated workshops.

 

I hope I did not offend you with my post. If I did, I really did not mean it. I guess in a way I am just reflecting on my own experience. One night I was talking until dawn with one of the local community members. He had told me of his hardships of survival both for him and his family. I remember thinking about it then how lucky in fact I was to be there and also the fact that while living conditions were very basic there.... this is how they live every day.....while I would return home after 3 months.

 

So...in the end I agree that going on an international community project can be really rewarding and life changing even. In addition, there is also much rewarding work that can be done in Canada. They are both valuable....and just different sides of the same cause....to do something positive for our communities.

[Guest not rex morgan]

Monkey. I think we're on the same page here. You didn't offend me at all. I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that you had. I'm a big believer in exactly what you said "doing something you believe in." Being honest with yourself transmits to others. Sincerity is something that would do alot of people some good.

 

I think there is a little resentment in the forum about "the bar" for admissions. I only reflected some of the things I have done, but the class is very diverse. Some have PhDs, some were varsity athletes, some have travelled much more extensively than me, some had a 95 average in their undergrads, some even have kids. (of course there is the few that you can't figure out why they got in, and that's what makes this invisible bar so stinging). That does not mean that all applicants should run out and get PhDs, start taking roids, buy a ticket to somewhere, anywhere, pay someone off at the registrar to change their transcripts, and procreate...or hop on the next shuttle to the moon. It is true that admissions standards have increased in the last I don't know how many years. A few of our profs have joked saying that they never would have gotten into med school with the fierce competition out there. As someone who didn't get in the first or second time I applied, I understand the overwhelming feeling of "I need to do this to get in." Make sure it's only a temporary feeling. I was considering grad school. I'm so happy that was fleeting. I had a way better experience with what I did. I'm also proud I didn't just stay and do the same old thing I'd been doing. I used my time to pack the most into life that I could. That's what it's all about. Do things that make you content.

[Guest monkey]

If anyone is interested, there is a forum called "empowering communities" on January 31st in the main library (Learning Commons) from 5:30pm-7:30pm. Previous participants (students and alumni) of various community projects..campus, local and global will share their personal stories and pictures.

 

It should be a very interesting and inspiring discussion I'm sure.

[Guest KatieKat]

Which school are you talking about? UBC?

[Guest monkey]

Hi Katie,

 

Yes, it is at UBC. It is put on by a group, I'm part of called Students Interconnected which does forums on experiential learning. It will take place during Science Week as one of the programs offered. It will consist of a half an hour presentation period (5:30-6:00pm'ish) followed by a hour to hour and a half discussion (with a ten minute intermission period)

 

The objective is to raise awareness about different possibilities in terms of community involvement, introduce some of the issues related with community work, explore the meaning of community development, and hopefully inspire students to get out there and make a difference. It will be a time of sharing and learning.

 

The focus is broad and wide. The guests include science students who have contributed to campus, local and global communities. And topics include health, the environmental or socioeconomic issues. It will be very interactive. The attendees play a big role in shaping the direction of the forum as they are encouraged to ask questions throughout the discussion.

 

So far presentations will include a slide show by Youth Challenge International (International Development Youth Projects), as well as presentations from the Learning Exchange (UBC Dowtown Eastside Program) and Youth Millenium Project ( UBC initiated Highschool environmental outreach program).

We are still in the process of garnering all the speakers but so far we have:

 

1) one 4th year biochem student who is involved in Pride UBC and was the previous director of a peer Counselling Service (Speak Easy)

 

2) one UBC 3rd year medical student who did who participated in a medical mission in Nepal/India while in undergrad. She is now involved in establishing a forum on ethics in international health.

 

3) one 4th year chem student who did a housing project in Mexico.

 

 

Some possibles include (yet to be confirmed):

 

1) a Science student who has worked with Red Cross to put on an international youth conference.

 

2) a science student involved in learning exchange downtown eastside program.

 

3) a dental student who did a dental project in India while in undergrad

 

4) a student who is involved in the Youth Millinium Project.

 

If you want to find out more about what the forums are like, the transcripts of past forums are available on the web at http://www.howlingsheep.com

 

Hope this helps and maybe I'll see you there.

 

take care