Should future doctors be bilingual?

[aaronjw]

I don't mind having the two official languages. I don't think it's necessary to remove French. I don't think anyone here advocated removing just French, only scrapping official languages all together.

 

Quebec can threaten separation, but I think they may be surprised at the number of Canadians who would be happy to cut them loose. The separation card no longer holds the power it did in the 1980s/1990s.

 

I was always surprised it held any power to begin with.

 

Oh, and I'd be perfectly happy to see them go.

[Guest JustAnotherStudent]

I don't mind having the two official languages. I don't think it's necessary to remove French. I don't think anyone here advocated removing just French, only scrapping official languages all together.

 

Quebec can threaten separation, but I think they may be surprised at the number of Canadians who would be happy to cut them loose. The separation card no longer holds the power it did in the 1980s/1990s.

 

Imagine what would happen if a state in US want to separate. I wouldn't be supprise to see the Air Force ready for strike in less than 24h

[TheBestMedicine]

WRT the topic, its really a non-issue.

 

If you only speak english you wouldn't practice family medicine in a solely french (or any other language) community.

 

If you live in a major centre, patients would naturally gravitate to family doctors that speak the same language.

 

If you work in a hospital, the health authority probably provides translators.

 

As NLengr said, being unilingual can only hold you back if you are dead set on a federal career. Otherwise, there will always be options to let your career progress in one language.

 

A better question... Should UGME be offered in languages other than english and french, and in proportion to the population of Canada that identify a language as their first language?

 

Ex. If 20% of Canadians speak Hindi as a first language, should 20% of the total medical school seats be taught in Hindi? ( I made this up, I'm certain that the 20% is wrong).

[Robin Hood]

WRT the topic, its really a non-issue.

 

If you only speak english you wouldn't practice family medicine in a solely french (or any other language) community.

 

If you live in a major centre, patients would naturally gravitate to family doctors that speak the same language.

 

If you work in a hospital, the health authority probably provides translators.

 

As NLengr said, being unilingual can only hold you back if you are dead set on a federal career. Otherwise, there will always be options to let your career progress in one language.

 

A better question... Should UGME be offered in languages other than english and french, and in proportion to the population of Canada that identify a language as their first language?

 

Ex. If 20% of Canadians speak Hindi as a first language, should 20% of the total medical school seats be taught in Hindi? ( I made this up, I'm certain that the 20% is wrong).

 

If they form a huge minority or the majority of a province, then they may get a Hindi-speaking med school. But surely, they will be restricted to Hindi-speaking communities.

[markov79]

WRT the topic, its really a non-issue.

 

If you only speak english you wouldn't practice family medicine in a solely french (or any other language) community.

 

If you live in a major centre, patients would naturally gravitate to family doctors that speak the same language.

 

If you work in a hospital, the health authority probably provides translators.

 

As NLengr said, being unilingual can only hold you back if you are dead set on a federal career. Otherwise, there will always be options to let your career progress in one language.

 

A better question... Should UGME be offered in languages other than english and french, and in proportion to the population of Canada that identify a language as their first language?

 

Ex. If 20% of Canadians speak Hindi as a first language, should 20% of the total medical school seats be taught in Hindi? ( I made this up, I'm certain that the 20% is wrong).

 

or, apparently, the habs' coach. loooooooooooooooool. (yes, yes, i know it's totally off-topic).

[pommect]

It's better that people with different political views do not try to argue with each other... The conversation will not have any conclusions.

 

I agree that learning a second language is not necessary for a doctor. But knowing a second language definitely brings you a lot of opportunities in life.

[moo]

It's better that people with different political views do not try to argue with each other... The conversation will not have any conclusions.

 

I agree that learning a second language is not necessary for a doctor. But knowing a second language definitely brings you a lot of opportunities in life.

 

I agree. But the question is which language? I can only learn so much. I'm already trilingual, but I don't consider French to be one of those languages even though I took a lot of French in high school and beyond. It's just I don't use it at all and haven't in 10+ years so it's better that a French person speak English to me... they're probably more fluent in English than i ever will be in French.

[pommect]

.........

[Guest LeCreuset]

And Hispanics are likely more spread across multiple states vs. Francophones, which are largely isolated to Quebec, north NB and Eastern Ontario.

 

Vast majority in Texas, Louisiana, Arizona, California. Something like 60% of southern Texas is Hispanic, Dallas is like 50.

[Robin Hood]

Vast majority in Texas, Louisiana, Arizona, California. Something like 60% of southern Texas is Hispanic, Dallas is like 50.

 

Hispanics only form 3% of the population of Louisiana. Contrary to other southern states, Louisiana is pretty marked by French culture.

[thebouque]

Dear Robin,

 

For French speaking doctors from Quebec, speaking both French and English is a must. Otherwise you're very severely handicapped. This is not the case for anglophones in the rest of Canada. In Quebec, we need English but in the ROC they just don't need French. As harsh as it seems, it's our reality (anyway you're bilingual so it's not an issue for you).

 

Also, since you mentioned publications in another post, even in Laval University which is in the heart of quebec city, the French fortress of North America, almost all the medical publications are in English.

[Robin Hood]

Dear Robin,

 

For French speaking doctors from Quebec, speaking both French and English is a must. Otherwise you're very severely handicapped. This is not the case for anglophones in the rest of Canada. In Quebec, we need English but in the ROC they just don't need French. As harsh as it seems, it's our reality (anyway you're bilingual so it's not an issue for you).

 

Also, since you mentioned publications in another post, even in Laval University which is in the heart of quebec city, the French fortress of North America, almost all the medical publications are in English.

 

J'ai jamais dit que les medecins dans le ROC doivent parler anglais. Je parlais juste du manque de respect que les anglophones montrent envers les francophones.

[aaronjw]

J'ai jamais dit que les medecins dans le ROC doivent parler anglais. Je parlais juste du manque de respect que les anglophones montrent envers les francophones.

 

I'll respect fancophones (as group, not pertaining to individuals) when they show respect for Canada

[Robin Hood]

I'll respect fancophones (as group, not pertaining to individuals) when they show respect for Canada

 

Canada shows so much respect to francophones that they enacted a constitution behind Quebec's back.

[aaronjw]

Canada shows so much respect to francophones that they enacted a constitution behind Quebec's back.

 

The french are FREE to leave if they feel to absolutely disrespected. How well do you think that'll work out for the good franophone people?

[smthg]

Let's just agree to disagree on the fact that some Quebecers' actions can be misconstrued as offensive to Canadians and vice-versa?

 

As for the bilingualism issue, I don't think doctors should be FORCED to be bilingual (in any sense of the term, be it French/English or English/another), but it should be strongly encouraged depending on the community where they'll practice. If they practice in rural Alberta where there's not need for anything else than English, fine.

 

But, if they want to practice in a big city or in a place where there's a major cultural community, and there are a lot of new immigrants there, they could be bothered to learn the language most spoken

 

That being said, being bilingual has been shown to reduce the risk of dementia in old age. So it's really a win-win situation

[NLengr]

Canada shows so much respect to francophones that they enacted a constitution behind Quebec's back.

 

You've said this a few times but never supported it with any evidence that Quebec was put at a disadvantage compared to any other provinces knowledge during the framing of the constitution.

 

Could you explain?

[Satsuma]

Don't you learn French as a second language in the rest of Canada? I can't understand how some of my canadian classmates can not put 5 words of French in a conversation...

 

Have you ever tried to learn a second language in a classroom setting?

 

I went to a francophone school but my sisters did not. I could never understand how they went through so many years of French without actually learning any French!

 

Then I took a Russian class and a Mandarin class. They tried to teach me grammar before I even knew how to say anything. It is a very unnatural way to learn. I didn't learn that much in those classes, and I never wanted to take a language class again! So then I understood my sisters's issues!

 

It doesn't help that many of the teacher's teaching French, don't really speak all that well. Mind you the teacher's teaching me English didn't speak English very well either (I remember helping my grade 4 teacher read from our readers when she got stumped!). It's just I had the benefit of living in a predominantly English speaking environment, so learned it anyway.

 

Second languages aren't for everyone and it's even harder when not taught well, and you have no opportunity to use it!

[Satsuma]

But Aboriginals have so many languages...

Also, Canadian French were among the founders of Canada, Quebec was one of the original 4 provinces. Also, as for the US, states have more power than provinces in Canada, and let's not forget that the alternative to removing French as an official language of Canada is seperation. Quebec still didn't agree on the constitution (a constitution decided on by English Canadians without Quebec's consent).

 

Aboriginals were the original founders of Canada! The French and English essentially stole it from them. Sure they are a smaller population (now...remember why that is!) with many languages, but with less power and they have to work even harder to protect their culture. Given the history, aboriginals are more deserving of anyone to have help in protecting their culture, imho.

 

As for Québec, who knows when there will be resolution to their issues.

But French Canadians back in the day chose (yes, they had a choice) to remain in loyalist Canada under the British crown, rather than siding with the Americans. And as an outsider, it would seem that Québec has done fairly well at maintaining their language a culture. I sometimes wonder what Québec would look like today, if instead the French Canadians of the day would have sided with the Americans. Food for thought.

[smthg]

Have you ever tried to learn a second language in a classroom setting?

 

I went to a francophone school but my sisters did not. I could never understand how they went through so many years of French without actually learning any French!

 

Then I took a Russian class and a Mandarin class. They tried to teach me grammar before I even knew how to say anything. It is a very unnatural way to learn. I didn't learn that much in those classes, and I never wanted to take a language class again! So then I understood my sisters's issues!

 

It doesn't help that many of the teacher's teaching French, don't really speak all that well. Mind you the teacher's teaching me English didn't speak English very well either (I remember helping my grade 4 teacher read from our readers when she got stumped!). It's just I had the benefit of living in a predominantly English speaking environment, so learned it anyway.

 

Second languages aren't for everyone and it's even harder when not taught well, and you have no opportunity to use it!

 

THIS ^

 

Although I'm bilingual in a 100% francophone region, and despite the dismal English competency level of my teachers, I understand perfectly how HARD it is to learn a new language, that you probably won't use and practice anyway.

 

Most of my classmates didn't even care about English, because we don't have to use it in everyday situations. Most of classes didn't have a teacher who had a working knowledge of English and, even worse, they communicated their mistakes to their students. Many times, I just shook my head and thanked my parents for forcing me to learn a second language and learn it WELL (meaning practicing at home, watching TV and listening to radio in English).

 

I had one other second language class (Spanish) and even though I had really good grades, I took it one year ago and I don't remember anything besides "Hola" or "Como estas?"... the teacher cannot simply take the time to make sure everyone understands his/her subject well. So, in an environment in which the doctor HAS to learn a second language because there are so many speakers of that language in the community in which he practices, the transition into that language will be easier, because they will learn in real-life situations. It will, later or sooner, give them more versatility and a way to better approach patients

[NLengr]

Aboriginals were the original founders of Canada! The French and English essentially stole it from them. Sure they are a smaller population (now...remember why that is!) with many languages, but with less power and they have to work even harder to protect their culture. Given the history, aboriginals are more deserving of anyone to have help in protecting their culture, imho.

 

As for Québec, who knows when there will be resolution to their issues.

But French Canadians back in the day chose (yes, they had a choice) to remain in loyalist Canada under the British crown, rather than siding with the Americans. And as an outsider, it would seem that Québec has done fairly well at maintaining their language a culture. I sometimes wonder what Québec would look like today, if instead the French Canadians of the day would have sided with the Americans. Food for thought.

 

Probably not significantly French is what they would look like. I can't see the Americans being as tolerant of, and sensitive to, Quebec as Canada has been/is.

[smthg]

Probably not significantly French is what they would look like. I can't see the Americans being as tolerant of, and sensitive to, Quebec as Canada has been/is.

 

In fact, I think Québec stayed with Canada (then an English colony), because they gave them more autonomy on, amongst all, linguistic matters. At the beginning of the English reign on the Canadian colonies, Lord Durham first went the whole "assimiliation" route, before the Patriots' Revolt of 1837-1838. And then, there was that whole American Civil War and the English got scared of losing such a big territory to the Thirteen Colonies, so they made a lot of compromises with the Lower Canada parliament. With the Royal Proclamation if I remember my Québec history classes... which are as biaised as all the history classes in the world. Well, I tried

 

And even then, like you said, a Québec merged with the United States would have been forced to abandon their distinctive culture to fit with the traditional "melting pot" culture Americans have had since they became a country, whereas Canada's approach is seen more as multiculturalism.

 

As Satsuma said, Québec HAS done a great job maintaining their distinctive status in Canada, with the 101 law and everything. French is in a bit of a situation in bigger cities (essentially Montréal, as there are much more new immigrants and people from other provinces who study there). But, as a Quebecer, in all the other parts of Québec, I can say that French is 95-100% dominant. This is my opinion here, but I think that some Quebecers (not all, mind me) have a complex relationship with Anglophones and may react brutally to the coming of English or any other languages in their regions. It's understandable with their past, but I don't condone this attitude AT ALL. The things I've heard...

[future_doc]

Speaking 2+ languages gives us the ability to serve a wider population base as physicians and in the mother tongue of the patient which makes the patient more comfortable, especially the elderly. I have dealt with elderly trauma patients in four languages and taking their history is much easier in their own language. So, I agree with cherie136 that being able to speak with patients in their language is beneficial.

[Robin Hood]

In fact, I think Québec stayed with Canada (then an English colony), because they gave them more autonomy on, amongst all, linguistic matters. At the beginning of the English reign on the Canadian colonies, Lord Durham first went the whole "assimiliation" route, before the Patriots' Revolt of 1837-1838. And then, there was that whole American Civil War and the English got scared of losing such a big territory to the Thirteen Colonies, so they made a lot of compromises with the Lower Canada parliament. With the Royal Proclamation if I remember my Québec history classes... which are as biaised as all the history classes in the world. Well, I tried

 

And even then, like you said, a Québec merged with the United States would have been forced to abandon their distinctive culture to fit with the traditional "melting pot" culture Americans have had since they became a country, whereas Canada's approach is seen more as multiculturalism.

 

As Satsuma said, Québec HAS done a great job maintaining their distinctive status in Canada, with the 101 law and everything. French is in a bit of a situation in bigger cities (essentially Montréal, as there are much more new immigrants and people from other provinces who study there). But, as a Quebecer, in all the other parts of Québec, I can say that French is 95-100% dominant. This is my opinion here, but I think that some Quebecers (not all, mind me) have a complex relationship with Anglophones and may react brutally to the coming of English or any other languages in their regions. It's understandable with their past, but I don't condone this attitude AT ALL. The things I've heard...

 

Tu commences a oublier ton histoire de secondaire 4.

Le Quebec a choisit de ne pas aller avec les 13 Colonies, mais ca c'etait durant la guerre d'independence americaine, le gouverneur britannique du Quebec a offert de nombreux cadeaux au Quebec pour s'assurer de sa loyaute, dont les maintien du droit civil et la liberte religieuse, mais les Quebecois jugerent que la guerre ne les concernent pas. Aussi, il y avait un parti politique en 1867 (je crois) qui voulais que le Quebec devienne un etat americain, but Quebec would be under a more huge anglophone see, it would be like Louisiana now, trying to revive the French language.

As for the constitution, Quebec wanted to be recognized as different, but the anglo provinces and Canada was so respectful of Quebec, that they enacted it while Levesque was sleeping, even if you consider that recognizing Quebec as being different, giving some additional powers to Quebec, and giving some veto powers to provinces was not a big deal, the way the deal was done shows clearly how much Canada respects Quebec.

[Robin Hood]

Aboriginals were the original founders of Canada! The French and English essentially stole it from them. Sure they are a smaller population (now...remember why that is!) with many languages, but with less power and they have to work even harder to protect their culture. Given the history, aboriginals are more deserving of anyone to have help in protecting their culture, imho.

 

As for Québec, who knows when there will be resolution to their issues.

But French Canadians back in the day chose (yes, they had a choice) to remain in loyalist Canada under the British crown, rather than siding with the Americans. And as an outsider, it would seem that Québec has done fairly well at maintaining their language a culture. I sometimes wonder what Québec would look like today, if instead the French Canadians of the day would have sided with the Americans. Food for thought.

 

I'm not disagreeing with the saying that Aboriginals should be given more rights, Quebec is the only provinces that recognizes that they have rights.