H/P/F ?? How crucial is that?

[Guest endingsoon]

matched to UT Rads. I have one H (in surgery) is my core clinical subjects that did not include rads (which is elective, so only P/F). And a handful of H's in first and second year. I did get a scholarship each year, though.

 

Congrats! I know about 5 people in your program, and they are all excellent. But to be honest, I think you are just proving my point. Getting an 'H' at UBC is MUCH MUCH MUCH harder than at UofT, so I am sure that you had excellent marks relative to the rest of the class, as is evident in your scholarships.

 

You need good marks to be considered, but UWOMED is right its the other stuff that gets you in. They have many applicants that have good marks, so really thats not what makes it for you. You need something that will help to set you apart.

[Guest medzguy]

In ottawa I know there is a score out of 24. marks for preclerkship years count for 4 marks. If you get 1 pass in the first 2 years you score 2/4 . If you score 2 passes in the first 2 years you score 0/4. The rest 20 marks are for clerkship I think. Thats what I heard so apparently marks do matter. I would be interested to know more about other med schools ways of working marks out.

[Guest satsumargirl]

If you get 1 pass in the first 2 years you score 2/4 . If you score 2 passes in the first 2 years you score 0/4.

 

I just read this comment in another forum (meds 101 maybe?)

But I will post my question here as well, in case there is a better chance of someone replying in this forum.

 

I was wondering where the above information came from? It just doesn`t make sense to me since there would be many applicants to Ottawa residencies who came from schools using simply Pass/Fail.

 

Thanks

[Guest TimmyMax]

Hey,

 

Yeah, that doesn't make sense to me either- anyone applying from any P/F school would automatically get 0/4 by that scheme. I'm sure that this person is mistaking this for something else, as residency marking schemes aren't generally common knowledge outside of the specific bigwigs in the departments, and even then, it's usually the program director, residency admissions committee and program secretary that know for sure! I'd take it with a grain of salt, because it's probably not true.

 

Best of luck!

Timmy

[Guest kosmo14]

I think the truth is that there is no real answer. The people with the high marks will say marks (H) matter, the people with the mediocre marks will say it deos not matter. Truth be told there is an entire spectrum. I know people who matched to very competitive specialties that had mediocre to low marks (plastics, ENT, Emerg-5 yr). I also know people with rediculously high marks that could not match to thier first choice specialty, and it is the most competitive. I also know a few that didn't match to their specialty and the only possible reason was lowish marks. So the answer is that no one knows. I think the more important thing isn't just one aspect of the app. but the entire person. If you have mediocre marks then it can be made up for in other areas ie/ personality (interview) or extra currics. Seems a lot like med school admissions to me.

[Guest waitingINwonder]

Hi there,

a few of the posts mention the importance of "research" for matching into particular residencies - are you all referring to "wet lab research" (the kind I've had quite enough of, lol) or are other types of research ie. epidemiological, sufficient as well?

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi,

 

Epidemiological research, especially that conducted within the field to which you might be applying during the CaRMS process, can be very valuable.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest waitingINwonder]

Thanks! That's good to know.

[Guest cracked30]

I guess with the new IMGs coming into the match, grading systems will become important again. Especially when competing against Canadaian IMGs from respected commonwealth medical schools. How are they marked? With letter grades, number grades? Is the H/P/F thing a Canadian invention that came out of the introduction of the MAC style of education.

 

All rhetorical questions.

 

Work hard, brown-nose, try to get the best marks you can. It's just like working your way up the corporate ladder. Except you'll never get the really big bucks.

[Guest zvmzvm]

hey guys, this is a bit of a random question.. do you think it's completely futile to apply for internal med at u of t without any honours on your transcript? preceptor evaluations have all been good, got lots of research with several publications, and some good letters from toronto staff..

[Guest kosmo14]

You would be the ultimate idiot it you didn't apply to what you want to do because some random person said marks were important. If you really want to do internal medicine apply to all the places you would be happy training in even if you think you don't measure up to so and so that states they have honours in everything (99% of the time is a complete lie anyway; imagine that a med student saying they did better than they really did). Don't let anyone discourage you from applying to a program because they think that somehow thier application is better than yours. Truth is when CaRMS time comes there are always some suprises (ie/ Mr/Mrs bottom of the class barely scraping by matches to super uber competitive specialty).

 

Good luck.

[Guest thelaze]

Definitely not futile. "It's a bit more of an uphill battle without an H in internal", so spake a toronto gen internal staff involved in residency selection to me. In other words, they like to see that you have H's, especially in medicine, but it's far from over if the rest of your app is good.

 

Also, what kosmo14 said.

[Guest zvmzvm]

hey guys,

thanks so much for the replies.. and good advice! guess the nervousness is just kickin' in.. but will definitely not give up just yet! =)

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

So, at UofT is the H/P/F system used to assess clerkship rotations? Do you guys have ITERs as well, i.e., the evaluation forms where preceptors can assess you on various factors and add comments, all of which are eventually included in your "Dean's letter"? How about other schools--what's their approach?

 

At UofC, for clerkship our core rotation exams remain P/F but they are accompanied by ITER "marks", i.e., "unsatisfactory", "performance deficiencies", "good", "excellent" or "outstanding" and comments. All of the ITER marks and comments end up appearing on the equivalent of our Dean's letter. It'd be interesting to hear how other schools approach this.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest cracked30]

This might be unpopular but the number of people competing for the cream positions will be increasing with IMGs becoming part of the regular match.

 

More competition means the need for other discriminators between students. Marks may become a bigger isuue for some highly competeitve programs. They can be picky if they want to be.

 

This is, of course, an unpopular position. But one to consider.

 

To get honours in med school is easy if you work hard.

[Guest Valani9]

Yeah - but now you'll just have even more people with different marking schemes. Many schools in Canada don't even have Honours - and who knows how international schools work. It'll be hard to compare between schools in terms of marks.

 

I agree that it will probably be more competitive now with IMG's - but I think it'll be more about research, electives, evaluations and (unfortunately) graduate degrees. Marks don't reveal very much about your qualities, especially as compared to all the other components of your application.

 

But, most importantly - if you go do an elective somewhere, and you impress the right people with your clinical competence (which you will, if you are good), then most of the other stuff is very much secondary to that. I think that will always be the best advantage you can give yourself.

 

...unfortunately, now there are even more people cramming into elective slots. It never ends....

 

Cheers

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

Regarding competition, it might not be that different this year after all. I went to visit a pretty competitive program in another city this past weekend and afterwards, the Program Director mentioned that although their province is one which is allowing IMGs in the first-round match this year, none of the spots offered in last year's first round will be offered to IMGs during this coming application cycle. There are many programs like this program, which have allocated spots to IMGs in the past, separate from the first-round spots available to Canadian grads via CaRMS. In these cases, life will continue pretty much as it did before, unfettered by the recent first-round IMG announcements.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen