New OMA notice - cuts to fees

[apache]

i was ended up getting to know a clinical prof pretty well over a while, he spent a lot of time telling me how to make money in psych (guy had money on the head, seriously…), 200 k isn't hard to clear, with minimal debt, if you know who to network with for consultations, what niche to cater too, etc. lol, they can do a lot of biological interventions psychiatrists aren't trained to too (neuro assessment, qeeg, biofeedback… if you wanted, you could hardcore target your practice to almost applied behavioural neuro, with psych elements still there)...

 

I also have to point out that all university education is subsidized by the government. Even Quebec students, bless their financially disadvantaged souls.

 

Some of these grads go onto have jobs that revolve around private billing as well e.g. psychologists. Some go on to be businessmen and get outrageously disproportionate bonuses from the companies they work for (and end up getting paid more than physicians). Do you feel more comfortable with these outcomes, or would you rather overhaul our entire educational system?

[Robin Hood]

I would double-check before assuming Ontario will cut FP's salary in half. Even if other provincial governments did the same, most doctors will apply for US green card.

BTW, what is the average FP salary in Ontario?

[1234]

I would double-check before assuming Ontario will cut FP's salary in half. Even if other provincial governments did the same, most doctors will apply for US green card.

BTW, what is the average FP salary in Ontario?

 

Around high 100s, low 200s after overhead, I think. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

The biggest fallacy the government is spewing to the public is that billing = salary.

[NLengr]

I would double-check before assuming Ontario will cut FP's salary in half. Even if other provincial governments did the same, most doctors will apply for US green card.

BTW, what is the average FP salary in Ontario?

 

According to the CMA in '09-10 the average GROSS fee for service billings in Ontario by family physicians was:

 

$237,330

 

That is excluding physicians who billed <60k.

[1234]

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/723911--critics-charge-province-with-scare-campaign-to-justify-health-care-cuts

[Robin Hood]

It's 202 972 $ here in Quebec according to the RAMQ, but atleast tuition fees are way less expensive, and it seems it's equitable when looking at the salaries of other professions.

[NLengr]

It's 202 972 $ here in Quebec according to the RAMQ, but atleast tuition fees are way less expensive, and it seems it's equitable when looking at the salaries of other professions.

 

Quebec is the lowest paying province for all specialties so that fits.

[futureGP]

if you work full-time, you can probably gross ~$300k.

 

If you work more (50 to 60 hours), probably more than that.

 

I think a lot of FMs are part-time no? (Work 4 days a week, and golf the other time) -- and they found out that they don't really need that much money to be happy, so rather take time off?

[1234]

if you work full-time, you can probably gross ~$300k.

 

If you work more (50 to 60 hours), probably more than that.

 

I think a lot of FMs are part-time no? (Work 4 days a week, and golf the other time) -- and they found out that they don't really need that much money to be happy, so rather take time off?

 

I doubt 40 hours a week translates to $300K gross.

[PhoenixFlare500]

So I Googled billing codes and found this document from 2009 from Ontario which will serve as my guide for this probably highly inaccurate estimate.

Minor assessment $20

Intermediate assessment $32.35

General assessment or Annual health Exam $68.75

 

Let's say the general assessment's supposed to take 15 minutes, intermediate takes 10, while minor takes 5.

Assuming a 7 hour work day (8, 1 for lunch)

Of course these assumptions could be wrong making this post moot but whatever.

 

All general:

$68.75 x 4 / hr

$275 x 7 / day

$1925 x 5 / week (4 if you wanna golf)

$9625 x 52 ($7700 x 46, I assume if they like to relax they also like to take a vacation)

$500500 per year gross billings

or $354200 if they like to golf in Mexico. (1.413 conversion)

 

All minors (like a walk in doc maybe?)

$20 x 12 = $240

= $436800 or $309120 (Mexican golfer)

 

All intermediate

$32.35 x 6 = $194.1

= $353262 or $250000

And of course a mixture would be somewhere in between.

[Legion]

So I Googled billing codes and found this document from 2009 from Ontario which will serve as my guide for this probably highly inaccurate estimate.

Minor assessment $20

Intermediate assessment $32.35

General assessment or Annual health Exam $68.75

 

Let's say the general assessment's supposed to take 15 minutes, intermediate takes 10, while minor takes 5.

Assuming a 7 hour work day (8, 1 for lunch)

Of course these assumptions could be wrong making this post moot but whatever.

 

 

And of course a mixture would be somewhere in between.

 

 

Interesting data, thanks for calculating

 

So at the highest end we are looking at around 500K. Although a 50% reduction sounds very harsh (and stupid at the same time for reasons others have mentioned), I do believe 500K is way too much.

[apache]

Son, it's called NAFTA, why work in the US when you can work by or in a Mexican resort, beautiful climate, people, cash up front, lol.

 

 

I would double-check before assuming Ontario will cut FP's salary in half. Even if other provincial governments did the same, most doctors will apply for US green card.

BTW, what is the average FP salary in Ontario?

[NLengr]

So I Googled billing codes and found this document from 2009 from Ontario which will serve as my guide for this probably highly inaccurate estimate.

Minor assessment $20

Intermediate assessment $32.35

General assessment or Annual health Exam $68.75

 

Let's say the general assessment's supposed to take 15 minutes, intermediate takes 10, while minor takes 5.

Assuming a 7 hour work day (8, 1 for lunch)

Of course these assumptions could be wrong making this post moot but whatever.

 

 

And of course a mixture would be somewhere in between.

 

You need to account for paperwork and what not in there. So if you are seeing patients for 8 hours a day, you'll be doing a couple hours of paperwork at night. Plus the work of running your business, CME etc. it'll be far more then 40 hours a week.

[future_doc]

Son, it's called NAFTA, why work in the US when you can work by or in a Mexican resort, beautiful climate, people, cash up front, lol.

 

You don't want to return to Canada in pieces in a bag.

[apache]

i know 2 docs down there, u give the police the yearly taxes, so to speak, n u r the safest person in mexico. least the corruptions forward, lol.

 

 

You don't want to return to Canada in pieces in a bag.

[1234]

i know 2 docs down there, u give the police the yearly taxes, so to speak, n u r the safest person in mexico. least the corruptions forward, lol.

 

those "yearly taxes" go up annually until it eats up your profit. And if you don't pay, they'll ENSURE that you realize you need protection. Not thelifestyle i want.

[future_doc]

Thank you but no thank you.

[futureGP]

You need to account for paperwork and what not in there. So if you are seeing patients for 8 hours a day, you'll be doing a couple hours of paperwork at night. Plus the work of running your business, CME etc. it'll be far more then 40 hours a week.

 

EMR -- reduces paperwork to ~0?.

 

From looking at most fam docs work, they tend to finish paperwork within at least ~8 minutes for a minor visit (including seeing the patient).

 

you don't really have to run your own business if you just work at someone else's clinic and pay 20~30% overhead.

 

$300k --overhead --> $240k -- taxes/professional fees/insurance/ etc --> 150k?

[A-Stark]

EMRs do not reduce paperwork... they simply transfer it to a computer.

[1234]

EMR -- reduces paperwork to ~0?.

 

From looking at most fam docs work, they tend to finish paperwork within at least ~8 minutes for a minor visit (including seeing the patient).

 

you don't really have to run your own business if you just work at someone else's clinic and pay 20~30% overhead.

 

$300k --overhead --> $240k -- taxes/professional fees/insurance/ etc --> 150k?

 

Overhead is much higher than that if you are using someone elses practice.

 

Overhead of 25-30% is more consistent with running your own practice. But that also takes a lot of extra time and resources.

[Der Kaiser]

Overhead is much higher than that if you are using someone elses practice.

 

Overhead of 25-30% is more consistent with running your own practice. But that also takes a lot of extra time and resources.

 

I know for docs at walk-ins they take home 70% of their fees. It stands to reason that an efficiently run practice of one's own consumes 25%.

[futureGP]

I know for docs at walk-ins they take home 70% of their fees. It stands to reason that an efficiently run practice of one's own consumes 25%.

 

yeah but y'all saying you don't want the hassle of running your own business taking extra time off your life

 

hence, leech off someone else's and just pay a bit more?

[aaronjw]

here we go....

 

 

More provinces join McGuinty's clampdown on doctors fees

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/more-provinces-join-mcguintys-clampdown-on-doctors-fees/article2434074/

[future_doc]

..... perhaps to USA

[iwishiwasa]

..... perhaps to USA

 

Oh no, I might be taking a 20k paycut and only making 5 times the national average salary instead of 6, time to cut off all relations in the country that funded my med education and go off to US..