Letter of References

[Guest nokiatunes]

Hmm...got a question about letters of references for carms...

Do you find that when you often ask for letter of references, they'll say" Sure no problem, give me your CV, transcript about a month or 2 near carms, and we can talk about it".

 

Now I know that some people say you should push your referre into writing it at that moment in time, so they "dont forget"....but the problem is suppose your preceptor is the head/chief of the dept, and you and him/her get along very well.....so your a bit intimidate to push for more...seeing as how your preceptor is already doing you a favour by writing you a LOR....any thoughts on this?

 

Also, when your applying for programs in carms (exclude derm, optho, plastics, or ENT:) , should all your letters of reference be staff specific?

 

For example, if you like to do Anesthesia , or General Surgery....should you have all your letter of references from Anesthesitis and Gen Surgeons respectively, OR

should you mix it up a bit..?

 

so confused. i hate carms.

[Guest moo]

For me, I'm having an internist, possibly a urologist, a FP, and I'm gonna get my dept chair in anesthesiology to write me a letter after I do the rotation. It's better to have letters from different disciplines and one from the specialty to which you're applying.

[Guest endingsoon]

It depends....for internal medicine, they like to have letters really only from internists (about 3-5). For other specialties (ie - rads, surgical specialties, etc.) they want to see a mix of letters.

 

No one really knows what you need to get into the program you want. Your best bet is to ask people associated with the program (ie- directors, etc) or residents in the program to see what they like. The best remains that in general they will prefer academic letters over community (unless you are applying to a program with strong community ties) and they will prefer letters from people they know and respect (ie - committee members, etc.).

 

When to ask for letters is tough...I did not ask for the letter right then and there but instead they offered to right a letter and I hot them up a few months later nears carms time. I was not worried about them forgetting me b.c I really could not see that happening based on the people I had writing me letters.

[Guest UWOMED2005]

I agree with what's been said - particularly the bit about going to programs themselves to find out what they're looking for. (though I will say I think some internal programs are ok with non-internal letters. . . endingsoon would definitely know better for TO)

 

In terms of approaching referees months before letters are due, one of the guys who wrote my reference letters had me drop off a CV immediately after I worked with him, put together a prelim letter based on his most recent memories of the experiences, then had me contact him again at CaRMS time to put the finishing touches down.

 

The other referees I asked. . . one I'd worked with for 12 weeks so there wasn't the risk of him not remembering me. The other 3 were people I worked with in the 3 rotations leading up to CaRMS. . . all extremely recent, so little chance of forgetting me either.

[Guest endingsoon]

To add to what UWOMED said, yes the internal programs are generally okay with a couple of letters that are not internists (I think TO in particualr says 1 or 2), so if you have a strong letter then by all means use it.

 

A lot depends on how good a relationship you have with the person writing you the letter. If you only worked with them sparingly over a couple of wks then you should askfor it sooner rather than later. However, if you spent a good 3-4 weeks at least with them workign closely everyday, then they are unlikely to forget you and you can keep in touch with them and ask for it at a later date. If you are getting the letter from a place that is not your own school, then you may find it easier to drop off the 'package' while you are there, b.c faxing those things around can be a bit of a pain, esp. since some people mike like SASE and the like.

 

The whole key is to get people you know will write you good letters. I think its less important when and how you ask for the letter than it is making sure that the person will be able to write you a solid letter that is more than just a 'form' letter they use for all their elective students.

[Guest not rex morgan]

It is tough asking for letters. The concept is pretty straight forward, but actually asking always felt like such an imposition to me. You've got to just get over it and ask. Do have packages ready for them.

 

One of the best things you can do to get yourself set up for CARMS is getting your CV together if you haven't already. I did mine in the summer, but I hadn't asked for references before that. Writing a CV gets your experiences together so when it comes down to filling out your application on-line, you're already pretty organised.

 

A nicely done CV also looks very classy to your referees. The idea is to make it easy for them, and minimalize the work they have to do. Have a package together that includes a CV, a thank you letter, a postage-payed envelope, and any evaluation they've done for you. Also include the guidelines for referees from the CaRMS site. Some people argue over the last point stating that people that do tons of letters might be insulted, but I don't know how many times I've had to look up the same antibiotic guidelines, despite the fact that I've used them many times before. I personally think it just makes it easy for them. If they have the guidelines memorized, they can just ignore that piece of paper.

 

I agree, I wouldn't push that they write it right away if they ask you to get back in touch with them. Some people ask if they wouldn't mind jotting down their impressions while they are fresh, and then follow up closer to CaRMS time. You could always ask them if there is anything you can do to help them remember their impressions of you closer to the deadline (ie. "I will include your evaluation of me in my package, and I have included my CV, is there anything else I can do to help you write this letter for me?")

[Guest nahcadi]

I will say for rads specifically that most programs* say they'd like a mix of letters when all they want are big name radiology LOR =). Or barring that, radiologists that they know or have trained with. Of the people who matched to rads that I know (quite a few), all their LORs were all from Rads.

 

*this is probably because it is quite hard to get good, objective LOR x 3 from radiologists as a med student, due to lack of exposure.

 

My $0.02.