Queen's vs. U of Calgary

[vinny_moi]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm in a fortunate position to choose between these two schools, but they seems to be like night and day, both in their pros and cons, which is making it hard for me.

 

If any one can offer feeback on the schools with respect to program, flexibility for electives, and quality of CaRMs matches, as well as cost that would be very valuable. My calculations put Queen's at about $80 K more which is rather significant and is factoring into my decision.

 

Thanks for your input!

[mcgangbang]

Congrats! UofC was my dream school but they rejected me post-interview

 

I think it depends on:

1) Where do you want to live? Calgary is a big city, whereas Kingston is a small town; Also Alberta vs. Ontario...where is your family? This may influence your decision.

2) UofC has more of a PBL approach I believe, although Queen's incorporates this too

3) Queen's has a nice small class size which seems sweet and super close, but my impression from the UofC interview is that they are all super close and have that family ambiance as well. I like the jerseys/naming aspect too.

4) 3 years vs. 4 years. More time to decide what you want or less years in school and become a doc faster?

5) Not sure about matching, etc. but with Calgary being such a big city I would think there would be more clinical opportunities available. Also since schools often have a home school advantage this may help you in getting a competitive residency. I mean how many hospitals are in Calgary vs. just KGH and HDH which is pretty small and just outpatient in Kingston. Calgary also has Alberta's childrens hospital and kingston doesn't have a pediatric hospital so if you're interested in peds that may be something to consider

6) UofC is significantly cheaper plus you'll be earning income one year faster BUT I don't think cost should be the deciding factor.

Either way congrats and regardless of what you choose I'm sure you'll be ecstatic and have no regrets

[coastalslacker]

I loved Queen's medical school - Kingston is a fantastic place to live.

 

That said, now almost done my fourth year of residency and realizing how long the road of medical training is, I would choose a 3 year school over a 4 year school. If there is an 80k difference as well that would seal the deal.

 

As an aside, in response to the previous post (#5), Queen's medical students typically do very well in the match.

[LostLamb]

Just to clarify: U of C is not a PBL school. The only true PBL school is Mac. Yes, we do have small groups where we discuss cases but it is not the true PBL approach.

[thebouque]

Just to clarify: U of C is not a PBL school. The only true PBL school is Mac. Yes, we do have small groups where we discuss cases but it is not the true PBL approach.

 

There's a couple of true PBL schools in Quebec too

[LostLamb]

There's a couple of true PBL schools in Quebec too

 

Thanks for the info! I never know about the QC schools...like a different beast to me, a black box of sorts

[pheochromocytoma]

Hey, I don't know about the 2012 match results... but (and someone correct me if I am wrong) didn't Calgary do surprisingly bad in the 2011 match? like really bad? someone with more knowledge or time can look this up to confirm, just something I heard buzzin around the yard last year

[NLengr]

Go to the school with the highest match rates into ROAD/PRS/ENT/Uro. The new stats are out, not going to do it for you. Make sure you average them with the stats from the previous few years.

 

 

NSOM was bragging about a 100% match rate this year, but almost all of the idiots there went into primary care and other low-end specialties.

 

It's almost like those people were picking specialties that would let them work in Northern/rural areas.

[helm]

but almost all of the idiots there

 

Really? Really?

[jackiexls]

Congrats on the multiple offers, I've heard great things about both schools, but if given the choice I'd definitely choose Queen's. I was rejected from Calgary post-interview this year (only application), but will apply to ON schools next year as well, and given the choice I would do a 4 year program. From my own analysis of the situation, here are my thoughts:

 

As far as CaRMS is concerned, although I don't think there is a bad school in terms of quality of education in Canada, I do think that school can play a role in terms of preparing students for the match. Calgary did poorly in the match in 2011, Mac did poorly this year. Random coincidence? Personally I don't think so. The trend I see here is the 3 year program. I don't think this reflects on the quality of program, but I do think is that at a 3 year program, if you don't know what residency you want to match to right from the get-go, your chances are immediately hindered due to time constraints. Consequently, final year students, who finally decide what they want to do, apply for competitive programs, or competitive locations and ultimately get rejected because they didn't plan for it far enough in advance. Queen's match numbers certainly don't lie though. I can definitely see the appeal of the 3 year program, but I don't think it's right for me. I can also see why final year residents would say they'd do a 3 year school if they did it over again, but keep in mind they are in residency and already know what residency they'd go into if they did it over again.

 

Now for cost. Personally, I don't see cost as an issue, and in fact I'm not even convinced there is much of a difference. Using the discussion above, lets say you don't match to your number 1 specialty of Surgery (just using it as an example), and are forced into something else instead. Shouldn't that be a cost thought as well? Sure a 4 year school might cost more up front (again, I'm not actually convinced it does), but if it prepares you more for the specialty that you want (which, may be a competitive one with a high money pay-out, or more personal satisfaction etc), then possibly you'll be making more money later which I think counts for something too. I just think the 4 year is probably the "safer" bet if that makes any sense. As a side note, I should also say that as a MD, you'll make good money regardless of specialty, so I personally don't even consider the cost up front as a concern. Everyone goes into debt, everyone works it off. It's just the way it is. Also, I don't think it would actually be an 80K difference bwteen 3 and 4 year schools. Yeah, it probably is a bit more (closer to 40K I would think = 20K tuition + 20K living), but could also be offset by working during summers. Kingston is cheaper to live in than Calgary, so that might factor in too.

 

Finally, although maybe not as important in Canada, but I do think that overall school reputation does count for something. Queen's is ranked higher than UofC. The higher ranked schools offer much more than just prestige, as many people think. They also tend to offer better student/prof ratios, better profs, better funding, better resources etc.

 

You are lucky to have this type of decision as it really lets you think about what your wish-list is for the MD program that suits you best. Good luck!

[NLengr]

Congrats on the multiple offers, I've heard great things about both schools, but if given the choice I'd definitely choose Queen's. I was rejected from Calgary post-interview this year (only application), but will apply to ON schools next year as well, and given the choice I would do a 4 year program. From my own analysis of the situation, here are my thoughts:

 

As far as CaRMS is concerned, although I don't think there is a bad school in terms of quality of education in Canada, I do think that school can play a role in terms of preparing students for the match. Calgary did poorly in the match in 2011, Mac did poorly this year. Random coincidence? Personally I don't think so. The trend I see here is the 3 year program. I don't think this reflects on the quality of program, but I do think is that at a 3 year program, if you don't know what residency you want to match to right from the get-go, your chances are immediately hindered due to time constraints. Consequently, final year students, who finally decide what they want to do, apply for competitive programs, or competitive locations and ultimately get rejected because they didn't plan for it far enough in advance. Queen's match numbers certainly don't lie though. I can definitely see the appeal of the 3 year program, but I don't think it's right for me. I can also see why final year residents would say they'd do a 3 year school if they did it over again, but keep in mind they are in residency and already know what residency they'd go into if they did it over again.

 

Now for cost. Personally, I don't see cost as an issue, and in fact I'm not even convinced there is much of a difference. Using the discussion above, lets say you don't match to your number 1 specialty of Surgery (just using it as an example), and are forced into something else instead. Shouldn't that be a cost thought as well? Sure a 4 year school might cost more up front (again, I'm not actually convinced it does), but if it prepares you more for the specialty that you want (which, may be a competitive one with a high money pay-out, or more personal satisfaction etc), then possibly you'll be making more money later which I think counts for something too. I just think the 4 year is probably the "safer" bet if that makes any sense. As a side note, I should also say that as a MD, you'll make good money regardless of specialty, so I personally don't even consider the cost up front as a concern. Everyone goes into debt, everyone works it off. It's just the way it is. Also, I don't think it would actually be an 80K difference bwteen 3 and 4 year schools. Yeah, it probably is a bit more (closer to 40K I would think = 20K tuition + 20K living), but could also be offset by working during summers. Kingston is cheaper to live in than Calgary, so that might factor in too.

 

Finally, although maybe not as important in Canada, but I do think that overall school reputation does count for something. Queen's is ranked higher than UofC. The higher ranked schools offer much more than just prestige, as many people think. They also tend to offer better student/prof ratios, better profs, better funding, better resources etc.

 

You are lucky to have this type of decision as it really lets you think about what your wish-list is for the MD program that suits you best. Good luck!

 

The problem in your ranking theory is that it's an overall university ranking and may not be the same as a medicine specific ranking. Plus they have some universities with med schools in the comprehensive catagory.

[cantcatchme]

but almost all of the idiots there went into primary care and other low-end specialties.

 

Exactly, you've got to have something wrong with you to want to work there.

 

 

What's your problem? There is NOTHING wrong with wanting to work in Northern Ontario, or rural areas. Actually, I applaud physicians/med students who are willing to work in such areas where you are constantly called to go above and beyond your call of duty. These physicians sacrifice a lot to practice in such areas.

 

Do you think Canada is just made up of 5-6 large cities? A third of Canadians live in rural areas, and do you think that they don't deserve to have doctors because of where they live?

[axialpac]

What's your problem? There is NOTHING wrong with wanting to work in Northern Ontario, or rural areas. Actually, I applaud physicians/med students who are willing to work in such areas where you are constantly called to go above and beyond your call of duty. These physicians sacrifice a lot to practice in such areas.

 

Do you think Canada is just made up of 5-6 large cities? A third of Canadians live in rural areas, and do you think that they don't deserve to have doctors because of where they live?

He's a troll. From his username--that's his 16th account so don't take what he says seriously

[mm88]

I lived in Kingston for 4 years and I'm about to head off to Calgary this summer.

 

Kingston is a nice city to live in: AWESOME food, decent night life (Queen's, RMC + SLC), and it's on Lake Ontario. If I had been fortunate enough to get into Queen's I would have picked it in a heartbeat: I LOVE Kingston!

 

If you're into any type of water sports such as canoeing/kayaking/rowing, boating or sailing, Kingston is the place to be. There are many awesome wrecks around to dive, and the the city is very windy: some of my friends even took up windsurfing while we were there.

 

Sandbanks is close by (great beach), as are the Prince Edward County wineries if you're looking for something else to do.

 

It is also within reasonable distance to Ottawa and Toronto (approx 2.5 hrs to each) so the big city feel is not totally lost as you can make a weekend trip down by coach bus or train with relative ease. My family is in Toronto so I am already biased toward Queen's purely due to location.

 

Calgary, on the other hand is a younger town as a whole (whereas Kingston is a bit of a retirement town when most of the students leave in the summer). I haven't spent much time in Calgary, so I can't say much otherwise. I did like what I saw and it's close to Banff (I love mountains!).

 

The 3 year curriculum was definitely the big draw for me. I am almost 80% certain that I want to do primary care, and really don't need the extra summers and elective time to gun for a ROAD speciality. The sooner I'm done, the sooner I can start practising.

 

Pick a school based on location rather than curriculum, you'll end up learning the same thing no matter where you go. If you have no idea what you want to specialize in yet, Queen's might be the better choice; buy yourself an extra year to think about it!

 

Best of luck. Maybe I'll see you at Calgary in July!

[Legion]

Exactly, you've got to have something wrong with you to want to work there.

 

My theory is that 3 year schools put you at a disadvantage. Less time for research, electives, volunteering, and getting to know the guys in your favourite specialty = lower match rate. An extra year not spent in the system is enticing, but the numbers seem to be showing a lower match rate for the good specialties at these schools, which supports my point.

 

Which is why I say if you want to match into crap, go to Mac of Calgary... you'll be there a year sooner.

 

 

If you are still a premed, hopefully you will never make it into med with that train of thought.

 

You don't seem like a troll based on your previous posts so I'm taking you seriously.

[axialpac]

If you are still a premed, hopefully you will never make it into med with that train of thought.

 

You don't seem like a troll based on your previous posts so I'm taking you seriously.

He's a med student and he's a troll.

[thebouque]

I concur, I talked to Gandalf and he confirmed that atom kid is a troll. He used to be a tree ent though.