Opinions on context?

[RiverCityJill]

I have availed myself of all the NOSM info on the web and I still don't have a good sense of what my context score would be like. I was wondering whether someone more familiar with the way the context score works could let me know whether they think I would be considered rural. I was born in a tiny (800 people) farming community in Manitoba and lived there until the age of 7. I lived in Wpg for most of my life until the last 5 years during which time i have lived in rural Ontario (Petawawa). I am also Aboriginal which I understand has a small impact on context as well.

 

With my application completed and submitted I can't help directing my energy toward pondering my chances. Being non-northern I know it's a longshot (some on premed101 suggested I was wasting my money and should just stick to the other Ont. med schools) but I really think NOSM would be a good fit for me. I'm an Aboriginal woman who wants to serve other Aboriginal people with my medical practice. Because NOSM offers the opportunity for clinical learning in communities with large Aboriginal populations, it would allow me to learn about Aboriginal health firsthand. My OMSAS GPA is 3.81 so I think that would be decently competitive. I don't have a ton of great ECs beyond coaching and volunteering at the family resource centre here, but I do have work experience in community health working as a sexual/reproductive health educator. Anyway, this has digressed into a full account of my life story, but any opinions on my context score and how that will affect my chances would be much appreciated.

[Real Beef]

No one besides the adcom knows how the context score calculation works. If you look through some posts from lasts years pre-interview time period you will see some speculating on rurality and similar so I wont repeat that here.

 

A few quick points however

1) Historically very few OOP applicants are accepted

2) how close your community you live in (have lived in) is to a urban center is a factor even if the population is small. For example that 800 pop. town you lived in wouldnt count for much if 20 minutes away there is a 500k pop. city.

3) Where you did high school seems to factor in (rural highschool, etc)

 

At this point however I will say that there is nothing you can really do about your context score now.... just like you can think hard about whether you have a better chance being a female getting in (60-70% of marticulants are female) but no amount of thinking will change your gender ... similar no amount of thinking and calculating will change you context score at this point. So go relax and do something else besides obsessing over the context score. There are probably more productive things to do such as working on your backup plan(s).

 

Beef

[RiverCityJill]

No one besides the adcom knows how the context score calculation works. If you look through some posts from lasts years pre-interview time period you will see some speculating on rurality and similar so I wont repeat that here.

 

A few quick points however

1) Historically very few OOP applicants are accepted

2) how close your community you live in (have lived in) is to a urban center is a factor even if the population is small. For example that 800 pop. town you lived in wouldnt count for much if 20 minutes away there is a 500k pop. city.

3) Where you did high school seems to factor in (rural highschool, etc)

 

At this point however I will say that there is nothing you can really do about your context score now.... just like you can think hard about whether you have a better chance being a female getting in (60-70% of marticulants are female) but no amount of thinking will change your gender ... similar no amount of thinking and calculating will change you context score at this point. So go relax and do something else besides obsessing over the context score. There are probably more productive things to do such as working on your backup plan(s).

 

Beef

 

Thanks for the info! I think I would be IP because as I mentioned, I've lived in Petawawa for 5 years. The small town I was born in is fairly close to Winnipeg so, from what you've said, that is not likely to help that much. Especially since, as you said, there is an emphasis on the highschool years. It is certainly true that no amount of pondering will change my context score. And NOSM isn't the only basket I put my eggs in as far as med school goes. It is one of my top choices though. However, the reality is I probably have a much better chance the other of my top 2 choices and really as long as I get in somewhere eventually that's all that matters.

 

I agree it would be best to turn my attention to things I can control. Especially since no one can really predict who will be selected. But I imagine I can't be the only one who hit submit recently and has their odds of acceptance on their mind.

 

Thanks again!

[benhc911]

Thanks for the info! I think I would be IP because as I mentioned, I've lived in Petawawa for 5 years. The small town I was born in is fairly close to Winnipeg so, from what you've said, that is not likely to help that much. Especially since, as you said, there is an emphasis on the highschool years. It is certainly true that no amount of pondering will change my context score. And NOSM isn't the only basket I put my eggs in as far as med school goes. It is one of my top choices though. However, the reality is I probably have a much better chance the other of my top 2 choices and really as long as I get in somewhere eventually that's all that matters.

 

I agree it would be best to turn my attention to things I can control. Especially since no one can really predict who will be selected. But I imagine I can't be the only one who hit submit recently and has their odds of acceptance on their mind.

 

Thanks again!

 

if you expressed a genuine interest in rural, northern and aboriginal health that will go a long way to help. All that said it is really hard to overcome the impact of Northern upbringing... it doesn't have to be rural, although it helps.. because if it had to be rural then I wouldn't feel like half of my classmates are from Tbay and Sudbury haha. Problem is that as soon as you are from another Province, it becomes complicated, and then rurality seems to matter more because even the furthest south Manitoba is further North than a lot of ontario... I definitely wouldn't say you wasted your money, but I also wouldn't say you should expect an interview... I think your situation is complicated enough that it will truly depend on how the adcom chooses to address it (ie. penalize you for being OOP when young, or disregard because of IP more recently, or penalize you for living in or near Winnipeg and Ottawa/southern ontario, or reward you for being born in a small town and recently living in another).

 

good luck on your app

[rural_roots]

Hi all, just wondering what your thoughts are on context score as it relates to the respective formulas of invitation to interview vs. offer to collation.

 

I did receive an invitation to interview this year (hooray!). I grew up in a small rural community in southern ontario. HOWEVER, this community is only about 100km from Toronto (which, as Beef has alluded to, could possibly hurt context score).

 

There are other things in my application I imagine helped me (grew up among reserve residents in my community, studied Ojibwe, exposed to lots of anishnabe culture growing up, lived in Tbay for six years, etc.)

 

Assuming that I have been invited to an interview, NOSM feels that this is rural enough. Perhaps this rambling should lead somewhere so at this point I will ask you all - does the context score carry a lot of weight at the interview stage? If I ace the interview, will I still be ranked lower because I grew up (relatively) close to Toronto?

 

I understand that we can only surmise and not know for sure, and that my time would be better spent not worrying about this, but allow me to indulge in this guilty pleasure as I'd enjoy reading your thoughts on this

 

Thanks all

 

RR

[jojoluvsu2]

I believe (I can't for the life of me remember where I read this, somewhere on the NOSM page) that preinterview is 1/3 GPA, 1/3 Context, 1/3 application (answers to questions + ECs). After interview, that whole chunk becomes 50% and the interview counts for 50%.

 

Context therefore essentially becomes 1/6 of your application. If you got an interview on perhaps the lower end of the pre-interview score, you will need a stellar interview to make up for it. As they stated in their letters announcing interview invites they cut the number to ~320 as those under that score never received acceptance so their scores were insurmountable with even a top notch interview. If you got an interview, clearly your context score wasn't so low that you were in that bottom 320-400 people who weren't given interviews this year.

 

Nothing is impossible, but be prepared to give the interview of your life to make up for a weaker context score.

[Real Beef]

Jojo is right about the pre-interview and post-interview scoring.

 

Rural Roots: Here is my pure speculation .... I think your 6 years in TB actually where you were saved and is your biggest asset in your context. Likely more than your small community in rural ontario that is close to an urban center.

 

In my first application to NOSM I for sure did not get an interview because of my poor context score ... having lived in Northern Ontario (NO) for 1-1.5 years. I had my application reviewed post-rejection (no interview) and was told everything looked strong except for my context. When I applied the second time all aspects of my application improved surely (marginal improvements in GPA, essays, autobio sketch, etc) but the greatest improvement in my application was my context score as I had not bothered to apply until 5 years later ... so I was nearing 7 years in NO. So already having a strong application prior now with a stronger context score allowed me to interview and be accepted. As an aside I interviewed well as I prepped like a lunatic.

 

Further to this I had lived in rural NS for much of my life though the community was within 100 kms of Halifax NS, the capital city.

 

Beef

[rural_roots]

Jojo, Beef:

 

Thanks! I feel a lot better knowing that.

 

RR

[Real Beef]

NOSM only takes Northern people, ie from the NOSM area. Most med schools are picky about where you are from.

 

Some non-Northern people do get in, but as you know that is the exception. Indeed most med schools give a certain advantage to geographically preferred candidates. I think Toronto is one that doesnt and a couple of others but certainly the Martime schools, quebec schools, most ontario schools do from my undertstanding.

[RiverCityJill]

NOSM only takes Northern people, ie from the NOSM area. Most med schools are picky about where you are from.

 

Well I got an interview so that's a good start! I do realize it's a long way from interview to acceptance particularly at NOSM and I'm not expecting an offer. However, there is still a chance and if I had listened to the people who said it was a waste of money I wouldn't have any shot at all. It's also not my only interview so at the very least it will be good interview practice (since it's my first one).

[Anne]

Well I got an interview so that's a good start! I do realize it's a long way from interview to acceptance particularly at NOSM and I'm not expecting an offer. However, there is still a chance and if I had listened to the people who said it was a waste of money I wouldn't have any shot at all. It's also not my only interview so at the very least it will be good interview practice (since it's my first one).

 

The scoring is mysterious yes, but saying that OOP or non northern don't get in isn't really true. There are at least 7 people in my class that I know of that lived in difference provinces during part of lives including me, and there are more than that, that have spent time living in bigger city centres, including me. When you consider that our class size is very small that probably translates to a non-trivial amount of students that have some sort of situation like yours. I guess your connection to "the north" and "rural" depends on how long you lived there but the "exact" amount to get you a 10 out of 10 etc. is unknown- at least to me. I think when you read the stats it paints a different picture, like one student per year about that is considered OOP according to them. Those students are usually from a rural place somewhere else for the time before they went to university and yes there is usually only one or two a year of those. Then there is the occasional person from the GTA that somehow gets in. I know of 1 friend that got in from living in Urban his whole life and I have "heard" a couple others of these unicorn type exurbanites exist. You can always spot them though, they wear Canada Goose Jackets...usually starting in October j/k. Also, they reserve 2 aboriginal spots and in my year, the year below me, and the year above me there have been OOP aboriginal students. I say who cares what your context is at this point, JUST go for it. Then call admissions if you don't get in and ask how your context is affecting your chances of getting in and if you had great marks in all the other sections, ie. improved grades, application, interview or all thee, if you would have a chance then.... if they say yes then your context is high enough.

[RiverCityJill]

$75.00

10char

[Hockeynut]

I was born and raised in northern Ontario until moving to Montreal to pursue my undergraduate degree. With that I have seen and been treated by residents and grads from NOSM. (some were very negative experiences; never let a NOSM resident cast your arm unless you want it to be re-broken and some were amazing) They accept people from the North, as that is the point of the school.

My Aunt actually works with students as part of their rural training up North, everyone she has had has been from NO.

 

So to be the bearer of bad news I wouldn't hold your breath BUT I have met a handful of NOSM students who are from Urban areas (GTA/Ottawa/London).

[Anne]

The residents are from everywhere, not just northern Ontario. Residency is a completely different beast than med school acceptance. Residents at NOSM are from many different provinces, UME programs, and from all over the world, including many Canadians who went to med school in Ireland, Poland, Australia, Caribbean and matched in round 2. Sucks you had a bad experience.

[Hockeynut]

When i said residents I meant residents from NOSM, I knew they were from NOSM.

[tb123]

So to be the bearer of bad news I wouldn't hold your breath BUT I have met a handful of NOSM students who are from Urban areas (GTA/Ottawa/London).

 

Pretty sure you didn't say residents...

[Anne]

When i said residents I meant residents from NOSM, I knew they were from NOSM.

 

There are many if not most NOSM residents that didn't do NOSM undergrad. I think NOSM undergrad education is pretty fantastic in some ways and not in others. All programs have positives and negatives. I think all medical schools in Canada have pretty great education programs and wherever you go you get a great education. NOSM works for me because there is a ton of hands on clinical learning, we get 2 months core clinical and 1 month elective clinical in our second year, most other 4 year programs have no scheduled full time placements until clerkship in 3rd year. It is also fun, I actually love going to school. At the TBay campus we are about 26 people a year so my classmates are all close and it is generally a great atmosphere to learn and laugh in. I have gotten to be with students at other schools on placement (Western, Queens, Toronto) and feel like for my education level I am fairly evenly matched in terms of knowledge, and preceptors always rate me the highest on feedback forms. Keep in mind I am an average NOSM student, not a superstar. For the most part my skills are matched to students further along in education at other schools just because of our early clinical experience ... but really I think it all comes out about the same in the wash. I think you are responsible for your own education and learning no matter what school you go to.

[Real Beef]

With that I have seen and been treated by residents and grads from NOSM. (some were very negative experiences; never let a NOSM resident cast your arm unless you want it to be re-broken and some were amazing)

 

In medicine you have to be a self-directed learner because the field is so huge that you can not possibly learn everything and master everything. So if a resident is not comfortable with reducing and casting fractures that is not the schools fault but rather the learners fault ... if they are uncomfortable with it they have all the opportunity to join the surgical interest group as a nosm student and take a casting workshop in 1st or 2nd year, line up an ortho elective in 4th year to do the same or in residency take time to learn that skill under the 1 on 1 tutelage until you get it right. So when you encounter a 'NOSM' grad who didnt do something it is not the schools fault but rather the learners fault for not pursuing the plentiful opportunities to learn. A Nosm student cant be a passive recipient of information with the school being a shovel that force feeds you information ... learners have to be mature enough to self-identify weaknesses in knowledge and skill and pursue those learning opportunities.

 

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience.

 

Beef

[Hockeynut]

It was more of a joke than anything, although the experience is a truthful one.

I wasn't bashing the school my any means, when i apply next fall NOSM is actually my top choice.