Unmatched applicants are "less talented"

[brooksbane]

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[rmorelan]

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=carms%20unmatched&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&ved=0CF0QxQEwBg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fviewer%3Fa%3Dv%26q%3Dcache%3AX7NFnwO1XosJ%3Awww.citywindsor.ca%2Fcityhall%2Fcommitteesofcouncil%2FStanding-Committees%2FExecutive-Committee%2FDocuments%2FEXEC%252520rpt%25252053_20120320105902.pdf%2Bcarms%2Bunmatched%26hl%3Den%26gl%3Dca%26pid%3Dbl%26srcid%3DADGEESgcJxWuz-1RhSdqU3FhP8MArTb-dA0QyWQHTyxs7EKU-jE9WeaWj_1D0PT7EGs1BWgDl4KRZPcJ-f57ZRBo6anNVCTTGWBN2A3VzopQ3KdIr3g_u6KZWF6GiNbVixVzEGaeW1Ss%26sig%3DAHIEtbT48-9jecWkCysUfla9pLLdOJeEBQ&ei=blvkUOHbIY-M0QG3yoG4AQ&usg=AFQjCNE5FPqXmJ5u7e5hi66sop_km2ANIQ&bvm=bv.1355534169,d.dmQ

 

In appendix A, Dr. Dale Ziter, who appears to be the director of Windsor FM, says that if you are in the 2nd round of CaRMS you are "less talented".

 

The hubris of academic family medicine amazes me.

 

well he says they are "often less talented" not that they definitely are and their goal is to recruit all their spots in the first round from high quality FM seeking residents.

 

I have to say this makes sense to me - first off every single program wants to match all their spots in the first round. You prefer students that are not backing up in your area but rather really desire your specialty and location first - particularly for FM the point of the residency training program is to ultimate attract students to continue on and practise in Windsor. They are far more likely to get that in the first round than second. Far more.

 

As for the actual talent level - again from the point of view of attracting strictly speaking talented family doctors (their sole goal) - then the second round match is full of less talented doctors I think. Most people in the second round match didn't want family medicine, didn't focus on it etc. Take a person desiring general surgery but went unmatched and stick them in family medicine and they probably are less talented (at least initially) than a family medicine keener. That just isn't their area of choice.

[rmorelan]

I disagree.

 

From the perspective of academic achievement and clinical skills, the applicants vying for the most competitive specialties have, on average, better credentials than those applying for rank-and-file family medicine programs, no less the one in Windsor. The former require more impressive curricula vitae than the latter on the basis of the competition alone.

 

Whether a student does electives in x or y specialty has little bearing on their "talent" level. Not only that, talent is defined as natural aptitude, not learned or through experience. Dr. Ziten plainly states that the unmatched applicants are often less apt. Had he worded his statement better, we would not be having this discussion. This kind of hubris (or misuse of the language) wins family medicine, or his program, no esteem.

 

again he says "often less talent" to quote him and the paper He is being far less damning although of course he (again like all programs) are aiming to be ambitious.

 

kind of an interesting discussion - would you hold then medical talent universally applicable? I mean just because someone is talented in surgery or radiology doesn't mean they are talented in the skills for family medicine in my mind. The school is not at all interested in how talented you are in anything except you ability to do family medicine which of course is what they are recruiting for. I would argue often people going for competitive specialties often and probably usually have a different set of "talents" and that their impressive CVs are actually displaying a different set of skills than the program would be interested in. Often all of those inapplicable skills would be not as valued by a family medicine program - and that is probably a good thing in many cases.

 

I actually argue there is a huge work and learning component to what people take as talent. I think talent is basically short form for a lot of hard work and interest coupled with a relatively small degree of natural genetic advantage. Particularly talent in the areas of superior but relatively normal human endeavours. A lot of very talented people in areas I know would be useless as a family doctor - not out of boredom, not out lack of ability to learn the material but rather they simply don't have the skills to be effective because they have never acquired them and probably never well.

 

This sort of rise of FM programs to seek more "talented" students has been going on for a while now I think right or wrong. In my class (ha, sample size of 1) it is surprising how competitive some of the applicants to FM are - phd/md students, people who held the highest leadership positions in the school, our top students are going into family medicine - quite a switch from even 10 years ago. I am amazed from last year who didn't get their first, second... family medicine pick.

[Lactic Folly]

Heh. Nice sleuthing.