geetar2112 Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 When you sign up for away Emerg electives, do they place you with 1 or 2 main preceptors? Or is it random and you end up working with different preceptors every shift? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xi88 Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 When you sign up for away Emerg electives, do they place you with 1 or 2 main preceptors? Or is it random and you end up working with different preceptors every shift? Thanks At all the emerg places I've been to, you're with different preceptors each shift. Often they will schedule it so that you do get to work with one of the staff twice. At 3 of my electives, I didnt even have a shift with the staff who was supposed to complete my evaluation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geetar2112 Posted January 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 At all the emerg places I've been to, you're with different preceptors each shift. Often they will schedule it so that you do get to work with one of the staff twice. At 3 of my electives, I didnt even have a shift with the staff who was supposed to complete my evaluation. How do you go about asking for reference letters in Emerg then? I can't imagine how a preceptor could write a strong CaRMS letter based on just 2 shifts. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardiomegaly Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 How do you go about asking for reference letters in Emerg then? I can't imagine how a preceptor could write a strong CaRMS letter based on just 2 shifts. Thanks Imagine away. My friends who applied for Emerg did just that. You have no choice. They're used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justletmein Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 How do you go about asking for reference letters in Emerg then? I can't imagine how a preceptor could write a strong CaRMS letter based on just 2 shifts. Thanks in many ER's you will get daily evaluations (each shift) ... the person doing your final evaluation and potentially your LOR can easily summarize what's been written in your daily eval's... If you have consistently good comments, that would be reflected in your letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geetar2112 Posted January 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Thanks for the responses! Eases my mind a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerroger Posted January 14, 2013 Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 Imagine away. My friends who applied for Emerg did just that. You have no choice. They're used to it. No, no, no... Please don't do this! The advice given thus far on this topic is very misleading! Do not get someone who you have worked 2-4 shifts with to write you a reference letter. Trust me it shows in the letter... It is not good, avoid this at all costs. I cannot emphasize this more strongly. These letters are a big deal and you only get to submit a few. You are taking a massive risk if you fire off letters written by a person who has worked <24 hrs with you total. Okay, now with that out of the way what you should do is the following: If you want to do EM then you need to work outside the box. Pick up extra shifts with your staff of choice. You can do this by coordinating with the staff member. Not all staff do this. The trick is to ask the residents in the EM program. They will have golden advice on this topic. I wouldn't ask anyone to write you a letter unless your worked >6-8 shifts with them. That works out to about 48-80hrs of face time. Anything less and a good chance your letter is generic at best or at worst opens with "I worked 2 shifts with X and cannot comment on all aspects of XYZ...". Many others will have stronger references then that, aim higher! Also a summery of daily evals is the definition of generic. Don't count on these for a reference letter. Unless you did something incredibly stupid or awesome the daily evals don't say much. They are just minuscule snap shots. The well rounded description of your abilities is entirely missing. Comments from other staff members are a nice addition to a letter written by a staff who knows you. These comments can support the opinions of your referee. But these comments do not replace having one emerg doc who actually knows you and can personally comment on your longitudinal abilities in the ED. Regarding daily evals, I suggest making photo copies of your daily evals and adding it to a file folder which contains your CV. When it comes time to ask for a letter give this file folder to the staff whom you worked a bunch of shifts with as it may help them generate your letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boringem Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 I see where rogerroger is coming from and agree in principle. However, working 50 hours in the ED with every one of your references is not realistic. Even if you do, they might not be well known in the ED community or might not think you're that good of a student or they might just be a poor writer. My thoughts on what makes a great reference letter here: http://boringem.org/2013/02/04/the-reference-letter-triple-crown/ And on how to get one here: http://boringem.org/2013/03/02/reference-letters-and-interview-inducing-elective-behaviour/ As I mention, there are going to be a lot of opinions on this kind of thing. Read rogerroger's, read mine, talk to others. Best of luck! -brent @boringem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuma Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 If you can, before your rotation, ask around and see who might be a good preceptor. When you are setting up your elective ask that you have as many shifts as possible with that preceptor. There will be no promises, but it doesn't hurt to ask. The trouble with emerg is, people swap shift all the time. So you may be scheduled with a preceptor, only to find out that they are not actually working that shift anymore, so it's hard. If you do a longitudinal elective, that is great. You will likely end up with a strong LOR. But you are going to have to get letters from staff who have only worked a handful of shifts with you. That is just how it goes. It isn't possible to do a longitudinal elective at all sites you are applying. And even if you do one, who's to say they'll like you. So, let your preceptor know up front you will be asking for one. Then they can pay attention to things on your shift that they may want to put in a letter. Give them your CV and daily evals at the end of the rotation. The evals are sometimes useful, depending on the comments. But they're likely to discuss with other people who have worked with you what they thought of you, and incorporate that. Emerg docs are trained to make quick decisions based on little information...your LOR is kind of like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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