DO vs Carribean residency

[palipride]

So I'm debating between DO or Caribbean . I'm still going to apply to MD (states) but DO will be a back up.

 

I know that DO applies to the same residency spots as US MD graduates, but does anyone know the number of acceptances? Are they placed in diffrent pools or in the same one (like the diffrence between an IMG pool and a US graduate pool)?

 

I was also trying to find a link for number of residency spots available in canada/us but was unsuccessful. So if you have one please share

[leviathan]

US MDs and IMGs apply for the same pool of spots. The same is true for DOs. DOs can apply for both ACGME and DO residencies, and I believe there was some rule passed this year that they would all be combined or something. At any rate, most people who want an ACGME residency get it. It becomes harder as a DO though, and it becomes even harder as a Canadian citizen requiring a work visa to immigrate. You will still match into something though if you're not picky on what/where.

[Mashmetoo]

If you apply as a DO to primary care, even as a Canadian, you will match somewhere.

 

The same cannot be said for IMGs.

 

DOs ask, where will I match?

IMGs ask, will I match?

 

That's all the difference you need to know.

[Mashmetoo]

US MDs and IMGs apply for the same pool of spots. The same is true for DOs. DOs can apply for both ACGME and DO residencies, and I believe there was some rule passed this year that they would all be combined or something. At any rate, most people who want an ACGME residency get it. It becomes harder as a DO though, and it becomes even harder as a Canadian citizen requiring a work visa to immigrate. You will still match into something though if you're not picky on what/where.

 

The merger of 2015 did not work. The AOA and ACGME residency streams will remain separate indefinitely. I know, bummer, a merger would have helped the cause in Canada. But we'll just have to do with the status quo.

[palipride]

Thank you both for your replies. Mashmetoo, I read your post on DO's and it was very informative, thank you. I'm just all worried about other countries recognizing DO's. I had an intention of attaining my medical degree in North America, working with it for a bit then travelling to the middle east to practice there. I tried researching if other countries recognize DO's but came out with many answers.

 

I know DO's practice the same as MD's in the states, and with licensing exams the same as MD's in Canada, but does that rule also apply for Asia/Europe?

 

If you apply as a DO to primary care, even as a Canadian, you will match somewhere.

 

The same cannot be said for IMGs.

 

DOs ask, where will I match?

IMGs ask, will I match?

 

That's all the difference you need to know.

[Mashmetoo]

Thank you both for your replies. Mashmetoo, I read your post on DO's and it was very informative, thank you. I'm just all worried about other countries recognizing DO's. I had an intention of attaining my medical degree in North America, working with it for a bit then travelling to the middle east to practice there. I tried researching if other countries recognize DO's but came out with many answers.

 

I know DO's practice the same as MD's in the states, and with licensing exams the same as MD's in Canada, but does that rule also apply for Asia/Europe?

 

It is true that the DO degree has less international recognition than the (US/CAN) MD degree. However, if you mean to go to the middle east for humanitarian missions, or short temporary missions (e.g., working through doctors without borders, red cross), then a DO degree won't be an issue as you can with that bigger organization. It becomes more complicated if you want to set up permanent shop in the middle east.

 

I don't have a list of countries in the middle east that recognize the DO, either way, you can easily find that information via google.

As for licensing in Asia/Europe, unfortunately I haven't looked too much into that. But it involves asking the ministry of health in those countries to see what they want, as it is done fairly rarely.

[palipride]

It is true that the DO degree has less international recognition than the (US/CAN) MD degree. However, if you mean to go to the middle east for humanitarian missions, or short temporary missions (e.g., working through doctors without borders, red cross), then a DO degree won't be an issue as you can with that bigger organization. It becomes more complicated if you want to set up permanent shop in the middle east.

 

I don't have a list of countries in the middle east that recognize the DO, either way, you can easily find that information via google.

As for licensing in Asia/Europe, unfortunately I haven't looked too much into that. But it involves asking the ministry of health in those countries to see what they want, as it is done fairly rarely.

 

 

I did find some DO's practicing medicine in Dubai, but I think they were working in a hospital. Why would you say it becomes much more complicated if someone wishes to open up a permanent shop?

[Slashsev]

I THINK the major probably is the lack of need for canadian med programs in recognizing DOs, simple put they just dont care

 

the DO profession is growing - growing at crazy pace, 1 in 4 now a DO in the US (and there still growing....i dont know why?)...the canadian education system HAS TO RECOGNIZE THIS....YOU CAN only keep your head in your ass for so long

 

Yes canadians are getting accepted into DO programs and Yes numbers have doubled (add another big school comming out in NY to attract more Ontario students), class size in ALL DO schools have also increased

 

there are more practicing DOs than there are canadian MDs

 

valuable resource exchange between both parties is neglected, in particular patient care and omt (abite there is barely any difference between the 2 professions aside from those 2 points).

 

I will also add, going DO- you have a DO (AOA) match way before the ACGME (md)- people usually gun high for AOA (play the lottery) and use ACGME as a back up (primary care)

however, AOA residency means you cannot return to canada and majority dont ive out good visa and are in **** locations

 

Going IMG will also impact you ability to get an H1B (test dates dont match up), american schools have to legally sponsor you for a visa for 1 year (OPT)- making you more attractive

 

i dont think theres anyone that would recommend an IMG (esp now +4 yrs) when the residency bottle neck hits

[Slashsev]

I will also say this, the DO is an American Medical degree

 

if you plan on working in the middle east then i recommend you get schooling there/going IMG in EU....you practice where you study

[palipride]

I will also say this, the DO is an American Medical degree

 

if you plan on working in the middle east then i recommend you get schooling there/going IMG in EU....you practice where you study

 

let's say a person goes to a Caribbean med school. Applies for residency and does not make it in. Could they still apply for residency in Europe?

[Slashsev]

dude, if you want residency in EU go to a EU school

if you want to work in america go to an american school/island

 

you can theoretically work anywhere,

but visa problems will not let you go far

 

residency is a training program, that is funded (i believe for most countries) by the government

 

if your not a resident the government of that country doesnt care for you, bc you havent/family paid taxes until the day you start yor residency

 

$ makes the world go round

[palipride]

dude, if you want residency in EU go to a EU school

if you want to work in america go to an american school/island

 

you can theoretically work anywhere,

but visa problems will not let you go far

 

residency is a training program, that is funded (i believe for most countries) by the government

 

if your not a resident the government of that country doesnt care for you, bc you havent/family paid taxes until the day you start yor residency

 

$ makes the world go round

 

I am aware of this, but I am saying if a person was not admitted to american residency, would they still be eligible for EU residency as a backup?

[rmorelan]

let's say a person goes to a Caribbean med school. Applies for residency and does not make it in. Could they still apply for residency in Europe?

 

good question - I would be surprised if you could(?) People who even did training as international student at an EU school cannot do residency there (say at an irish school for instance).

[Slashsev]

again, visa

[rmorelan]

again, visa

 

ok but can you actually get one of those for this purpose? All the irish sites say that IMGs going there cannot access the residency system and that those spots are solely for their own graduates.

[Slashsev]

probably not

[setto]

A good amount of misinformation in this thread...

 

1) DOs match into great residencies even as a Canadian. DOs are matched first round in a few provinces in Canada and they are matched first round in the US. Many non-primary care residencies are very DO friendly and even some of the tougher ones are taking in DOs. The stigma is pretty much gone with the new generation of doctors in control. Like all other medical schools, if you pick your rotations right, get some good reference letters and kill it on your Step 1 you will have plenty of opportunities.

The only squabbles between MD and DO are on Pre-med forums.

 

2) DO is an American degree, but that doesn't mean it's only good in the US. It's recognized with full practicing rights in more than 60 other countries.

 

3) IMG is still a very viable option, just riskier. Unless you hold a citizenship (or dual citizenship) for the EU you aren't guaranteed a residency. And as far as Caribbean goes, you have a good shot at residency IF you don't apply to the fields that are considered competitive to MD/DO.

 

4) Why do you want to be a doctor? Is it just for the MD at the end of your name? Probably not. Maybe it's because you enjoy the respect that being a doctor commands. Well, to be honest, nobody really gives a **** where you went to medical school. When someone asks you in the future what you do for a living you won't say "I'm an osteopathic physician" or "I'm an allopathic doctor" you will most likely say "I'm an internist" or "I'm a board certified surgeon" etc.

 

If you want info on DO and MD and IMG AVOID these forums. Most docs will tell you that there is no difference between one and the other in terms of capabilities and respect. Both can be great doctors. People around here act as if a DO neurosurgeon will suddenly drop what he is doing and do a manual manipulation during surgery!

 

 

EDIT: I'm a Canadian who hols a dual citizenship for EU and left an Irish medical school to attend a US medical school (D.O.)

[advair250]

"1) DOs match into great residencies even as a Canadian"

 

Do you have proof of this? jw because i haven't seen anything about where canadian DO's actually match

[setto]

"1) DOs match into great residencies even as a Canadian"

 

Do you have proof of this? jw because i haven't seen anything about where canadian DO's actually match

 

Sadly nothing past anecdotal. And "great" is a relative term. I consider a great residency to be at an established reputable location and not necessarily the upper echelon of specialties (ie ROAD).

 

The issues that Canadian DOs had a while ago was that they were landing these stellar residencies but were forced to pursue residency in Canada because they couldn't get a Visa. All that has been cleared up pretty recently though and Canadians are to be treated the same when applying for a Visa regardless of the medical school they went to.

 

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-a...athic-medicine/Pages/us-visa-information.aspx

 

As for matching into tough specialties, well if you apply broadly enough and do well enough on your boards you have a chance at anything. But it is definitely true that some programs will discriminate, but with the influx of DOs becoming attendings and PDs, that discrimination will keep dwindling down.

 

Sorry if this is a bit of a long winded response! I wish there was more match data for Canadians but there are only a hand full of us training in the US and I too am having trouble finding info on exact match statistics. But i know a few Canadians who have been -very- successful in the US. I don't know much about DOs who have matched in Canada though.

[advair250]

Sad that there's only anecdotal and very little, maybe in a few years more info..

 

the visa thing, I will need to see it to believe it

[setto]

Sad that there's only anecdotal and very little, maybe in a few years more info..

 

the visa thing, I will need to see it to believe it

 

Hmm...for some reason my link above does't work anymore. Well, the visa thing is an issue for IMG, MD and DO.